257 réponses à ce sujet

[Fhaileas]

Deviija wrote...

There were many weak and poor parts to Mass Effect 1, in terms of story and character development and overall game pace. However, I enjoyed Mass Effect 1's more hard sci-fi and atmosphere of our galaxy as a mysterious and awe-inspiring place much more than ME2. It captured that feeling of sci-fi, of space the beautiful and clandestine frontier, and the sense that women and men were on equal footing without a need to have the female sex run around in two strips of clothing and receive camera shots up the arse (Hellu, Miranda).

I saw real potential in Mass Effect 1. That's why I stayed with it and was willing to purchase ME2, hoping that everything from the story, atmosphere, characters, and Shepard would evolve and be improved upon in the sequel. I gave many of my ME1 gripes a pass because I thought they would be fixed and turned into something special by ME2. After all, we kept hearing how it was supposed to be a trilogy and ME1 was just setup to a greater epic story.

...it horribly failed. ME2 was horrific for me. Everything wrong about it became even worse, with very few positive aspects. I'd rate it even lower if we were going to include the marketing and PR debacles for the second installment. Anyway, ME2 crushed my interests in the series to the point where I have no intention of following the series any further.

Could not have said it better myself! On a tangentially related note I have a sinking feeling that DA2 is going to share a similar fate.

Modifié par Fhaileas, 03 août 2010 - 12:18 .

[TheRevanchist]

Fhaileas wrote...

Deviija wrote...

There were many weak and poor parts to Mass Effect 1, in terms of story and character development and overall game pace. However, I enjoyed Mass Effect 1's more hard sci-fi and atmosphere of our galaxy as a mysterious and awe-inspiring place much more than ME2. It captured that feeling of sci-fi, of space the beautiful and clandestine frontier, and the sense that women and men were on equal footing without a need to have the female sex run around in two strips of clothing and receive camera shots up the arse (Hellu, Miranda).

I saw real potential in Mass Effect 1. That's why I stayed with it and was willing to purchase ME2, hoping that everything from the story, atmosphere, characters, and Shepard would evolve and be improved upon in the sequel. I gave many of my ME1 gripes a pass because I thought they would be fixed and turned into something special by ME2. After all, we kept hearing how it was supposed to be a trilogy and ME1 was just setup to a greater epic story.

...it horribly failed. ME2 was horrific for me. Everything wrong about it became even worse, with very few positive aspects. I'd rate it even lower if we were going to include the marketing and PR debacles for the second installment. Anyway, ME2 crushed my interests in the series to the point where I have no intention of following the series any further.

Could not have said it better myself! On a tangentially related note I have a sinking feeling that DA2 is going to share a similar fate.

Dragon Age was never meant to be a trilogy or continuation. Simply because Dragon Age 2 is not The Warden, who is pretty much OP at this point. Does not mean the story will suffer because David Gaider is still there and is still the lead writer. I trust Gaider a lot and would even consider him the David Eddings of video game writers. Btw I personaly prefer Eddings to Tolkien or Brooks or any other major writer, although Salvatore is great too.

Modifié par kylecouch, 08 août 2010 - 10:11 .

[TheRevanchist]

kylecouch wrote...

Fhaileas wrote...

Deviija wrote...

There were many weak and poor parts to Mass Effect 1, in terms of story and character development and overall game pace. However, I enjoyed Mass Effect 1's more hard sci-fi and atmosphere of our galaxy as a mysterious and awe-inspiring place much more than ME2. It captured that feeling of sci-fi, of space the beautiful and clandestine frontier, and the sense that women and men were on equal footing without a need to have the female sex run around in two strips of clothing and receive camera shots up the arse (Hellu, Miranda).

I saw real potential in Mass Effect 1. That's why I stayed with it and was willing to purchase ME2, hoping that everything from the story, atmosphere, characters, and Shepard would evolve and be improved upon in the sequel. I gave many of my ME1 gripes a pass because I thought they would be fixed and turned into something special by ME2. After all, we kept hearing how it was supposed to be a trilogy and ME1 was just setup to a greater epic story.

...it horribly failed. ME2 was horrific for me. Everything wrong about it became even worse, with very few positive aspects. I'd rate it even lower if we were going to include the marketing and PR debacles for the second installment. Anyway, ME2 crushed my interests in the series to the point where I have no intention of following the series any further.

Could not have said it better myself! On a tangentially related note I have a sinking feeling that DA2 is going to share a similar fate.

Dragon Age was never meant to be a trilogy or continuation. Simply because Dragon Age 2 is not The Warden, who is pretty much OP at this point. Does not mean the story will suffer because David Gaider is still there and is still the lead writer. I trust Gaider a lot and would even consider him the David Eddings of video game writers. I personaly prefer Eddings to Tolkien or Brooks or any other major writer, although Salvatore is great too.

[implodinggoat]

I'll throw down my vote for Karpyshyn. Although both have their merits.

In general Walters writes more compelling dialogue, better short self contained missions, more interesting minor characters (you ran into some boring character's who felt like little more than plot devices in ME1.) and generally takes the edge when it comes to character development although he has no understanding of Liara's character whatsoever and needs to step back and let Karpashyn handle her in ME2.

Karpashyn takes the edge when it comes to crafting a cohesive intriguing narrative. His writing has a much more epic and mysterious feel to it that keeps you interested and makes you feel like you're uncovering an ancient mystery. The biggest praise I'd give for Karpashyn though is that he's a hell of a lot better at writing a narrative that makes the player feel like they're in control. In ME1 you felt like you were in control, following leads and pursuing your mission on your terms. But; in ME2 you feel more like a puppet a powerless pawn of the Illusive man running his errands, letting him pull your strings and taking it like a **** (ME1 Shepard had way more balls than ME2 Shepard). In ME1, I never felt like Shepard was making a decision or doing anything that I wouldn't chose to do; but in ME2 I'm constantly being forced to do **** that I would never chose to do, leaving situations unresolved, taking crap off of people and letting myself be controlled rather than pulling against the leash. In ME1 my Shepard was an anti authoritarian badass who played by his own terms and who told his bosses to go screw themselves on a regular basis, while in ME2 my Shepard is a docile errand boy who does what he's told and who sheepishly allows himself to be controlled by a man who he has more reason to hate than any of his bosses in ME1.

Even though I'd like to see Drew Karpashyn more involved in the writing for ME3, they're both good writers and I hope to see both of them working on ME3. Just keep Walters away from Liara.

PS:  Also Karpashyn writes a much better romance than Walters.  The romances in ME2 (aside from Jack's) seemed rather juvenile in comparison to the one's in ME1.    I'd take not of one scene in ME1 in particular where Shepard is feeling defeated and powerless and you're love interest comes by to get you to stop being such a defeatist **** and get back to saving the galaxy.  In ME2 its always Shepard saving the damsel (or dude) in distress intermixed with a bit of obvious flirting; but in ME1 it was a two way street and you had a chance to understand the character before they started coming on to you like a drunken cheerleader.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 09 août 2010 - 01:11 .

[Il Divo]

Lemme just ask the question now:



In Redemption, does TIM *really* put on a combat suit and prepare to fight mercs?

[TheRevanchist]

implodinggoat wrote...

I'll throw down my vote for Karpyshyn. Although both have their merits.

In general Walters writes more compelling dialogue, better short self contained missions, more interesting minor characters (you ran into some boring character's who felt like little more than plot devices in ME1.) and generally takes the edge when it comes to character development although he has no understanding of Liara's character whatsoever and needs to step back and let Karpashyn handle her in ME2.

Karpashyn takes the edge when it comes to crafting a cohesive intriguing narrative. His writing has a much more epic and mysterious feel to it that keeps you interested and makes you feel like you're uncovering an ancient mystery. The biggest praise I'd give for Karpashyn though is that he's a hell of a lot better at writing a narrative that makes the player feel like they're in control. In ME1 you felt like you were in control, following leads and pursuing your mission on your terms. But; in ME2 you feel more like a puppet a powerless pawn of the Illusive man running his errands, letting him pull your strings and taking it like a **** (ME1 Shepard had way more balls than ME2 Shepard). In ME1, I never felt like Shepard was making a decision or doing anything that I wouldn't chose to do; but in ME2 I'm constantly being forced to do **** that I would never chose to do, leaving situations unresolved, taking crap off of people and letting myself be controlled rather than pulling against the leash. In ME1 my Shepard was an anti authoritarian badass who played by his own terms and who told his bosses to go screw themselves on a regular basis, while in ME2 my Shepard is a docile errand boy who does what he's told and who sheepishly allows himself to be controlled by a man who he has more reason to hate than any of his bosses in ME1.

Even though I'd like to see Drew Karpashyn more involved in the writing for ME3, they're both good writers and I hope to see both of them working on ME3. Just keep Walters away from Liara.

PS:  Also Karpashyn writes a much better romance than Walters.  The romances in ME2 (aside from Jack's) seemed rather juvenile in comparison to the one's in ME1.    I'd take not of one scene in ME1 in particular where Shepard is feeling defeated and powerless and you're love interest comes by to get you to stop being such a defeatist **** and get back to saving the galaxy.  In ME2 its always Shepard saving the damsel (or dude) in distress intermixed with a bit of obvious flirting; but in ME1 it was a two way street and you had a chance to understand the character before they started coming on to you like a drunken cheerleader.

This is mostly true and agree with most of it. however keep in mind at the end of ME2 Shepard basicly tells TIM to go F himself and he's the one in charge now. So for all of ME2's falts I have hope the Capitan Kirk bad assness will return for ME3. P.S I still prefer Picard but Kirk needs his due.

[Mister Mida]

Well it took a while. But after 100 votes on the poll, 93% favour Karpyshyn over Walters. Who woulda thunk it?

[TMA LIVE]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

djarlaks10 wrote...

I may be stupid, but what is Mass Effect: Incursion? Never heard of it =(

Here

Latest comic. Very short, too, but that's because it was written specifically to remove a certain plothole.

What was the plot hole?

[Commander Maklai]

Don't get me wrong, i loved mass effect one. But i hate Karpyshyn's outlook on the mass effect universe, he seems to view it as dark and gloomy with lots of stuff (usually bad) going on behind the scenes, and everythin else is filled with poloticians spewing crap out of their mouths. I read the books and while well written did not capture the feel of the mass effect universe at all. In my opinion mass effect 2 was a breath of fresh air.

[Ahriman]

implodinggoat wrote...

I'll throw down my vote for Karpyshyn. Although both have their merits.

In general Walters writes more compelling dialogue, better short self contained missions, more interesting minor characters (you ran into some boring character's who felt like little more than plot devices in ME1.) and generally takes the edge when it comes to character development although he has no understanding of Liara's character whatsoever and needs to step back and let Karpashyn handle her in ME2.

Karpashyn takes the edge when it comes to crafting a cohesive intriguing narrative. His writing has a much more epic and mysterious feel to it that keeps you interested and makes you feel like you're uncovering an ancient mystery. The biggest praise I'd give for Karpashyn though is that he's a hell of a lot better at writing a narrative that makes the player feel like they're in control. In ME1 you felt like you were in control, following leads and pursuing your mission on your terms. But; in ME2 you feel more like a puppet a powerless pawn of the Illusive man running his errands, letting him pull your strings and taking it like a **** (ME1 Shepard had way more balls than ME2 Shepard). In ME1, I never felt like Shepard was making a decision or doing anything that I wouldn't chose to do; but in ME2 I'm constantly being forced to do **** that I would never chose to do, leaving situations unresolved, taking crap off of people and letting myself be controlled rather than pulling against the leash. In ME1 my Shepard was an anti authoritarian badass who played by his own terms and who told his bosses to go screw themselves on a regular basis, while in ME2 my Shepard is a docile errand boy who does what he's told and who sheepishly allows himself to be controlled by a man who he has more reason to hate than any of his bosses in ME1.

Even though I'd like to see Drew Karpashyn more involved in the writing for ME3, they're both good writers and I hope to see both of them working on ME3. Just keep Walters away from Liara.

PS:  Also Karpashyn writes a much better romance than Walters.  The romances in ME2 (aside from Jack's) seemed rather juvenile in comparison to the one's in ME1.    I'd take not of one scene in ME1 in particular where Shepard is feeling defeated and powerless and you're love interest comes by to get you to stop being such a defeatist **** and get back to saving the galaxy.  In ME2 its always Shepard saving the damsel (or dude) in distress intermixed with a bit of obvious flirting; but in ME1 it was a two way street and you had a chance to understand the character before they started coming on to you like a drunken cheerleader.

Well said. Karpashyn gives us subject to think, there always something unknown. I would like to see more main story instead of teammates problems.

[AllenShepard]

Drew Karpyshyn by far. ME2's end boss is way too retarded.

[Randy1012]

Drew Karpyshyn. I do think Walters is a bit better with dialogue and characters, but Karpyshyn is better with overall narrative and plot development. But, honestly, I'd rather have them working together than have to choose one over the other.  Karpyshyn moving to BioWare Austin to work on TOR was a huge blow to the ME franchise, IMO.

Oh, and Chris L'Etoile leaving the team does not bode well, either, I think. But I'm fairly confident that Walters and the rest of the ME writing team will learn from the mistakes of the previous two games and give us a solid conclusion in ME3.

[Gokuthegrate]

Karpyshyn's version was much better.

The story in 1 was much better than 2 and I read all but the latest ME novel.

[ThePatriot101]

*sigh*



Does anyone judge the stories of either two games in general or do they actually take their intentions to heart?



ME2 was supposed to be a middle chapter. Was the boss overly awesome? Not really. Was the story premise extremely epic? Not really. But, for a middle chapter in the series, does it fit that role? Since it fits just like what "SW: Empire Strikes Back" was as a middle chapter, I'd have to say yes.



Sheesh.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Karpyshyn by far. Mac Walters is more skilled with character development (although his treatment of Shepard in ME2 as basically a shadowed main character with very little interesting backstory was a step down from ME1's introduction to Shepard).



Karpyshyn knows how to weave a plausible and concrete story. I loved his rendition of a dark, beautiful galaxy inhabited by hope and despair. ME2 was, to me, more or less a Hollywood production (and NOT in a good way). ME1 was gorgeous and mysterious, and I would have thought that the Collectors should have been portrayed that way... but they weren't. The only mysterious thing about them was their origin, and the way the story led up to that revelation, it really made them seem like a cheap enemy/villain(s).





I too would love to see both of them contribute to ME3. I think they both deserve, and should be, an important part of the writing team for the grand finale.

[MassEffect762]

Drew Karpyshyn

[Merchant2006]

I'd... I'd have to saw Drew.

[FataliTensei]

Drew Karpyshyn

[atheelogos]

Drew Karpyshyn

[Xeranx]

Randy1083 wrote...

Drew Karpyshyn. I do think Walters is a bit better with dialogue and characters, but Karpyshyn is better with overall narrative and plot development. But, honestly, I'd rather have them working together than have to choose one over the other.  Karpyshyn moving to BioWare Austin to work on TOR was a huge blow to the ME franchise, IMO.

Oh, and Chris L'Etoile leaving the team does not bode well, either, I think. But I'm fairly confident that Walters and the rest of the ME writing team will learn from the mistakes of the previous two games and give us a solid conclusion in ME3.

Guess that means Ashley won't ever be the same.  I hated her, kind of liked her, wanted to stay away but couldn't, and eventually loved her.  This is the kind of writing I want to learn how to do.  Wish there was a place to hear (maybe read) what a typical process is for a writer when developing characters that are supposed to reflect actual human qualities or whatever qualities you want expressed.

[Worrywort]

Drew Karpyshyn.



I don't know who wrote the dialog for the garrus mission - maybe it was both of them - but whoever did deserves a raise.

[Terror_K]

ThePatriot101 wrote...

*sigh*

Does anyone judge the stories of either two games in general or do they actually take their intentions to heart?

ME2 was supposed to be a middle chapter. Was the boss overly awesome? Not really. Was the story premise extremely epic? Not really. But, for a middle chapter in the series, does it fit that role? Since it fits just like what "SW: Empire Strikes Back" was as a middle chapter, I'd have to say yes.

Sheesh.

Sorry, but to me ME2 was far too removed from the original for me to say that it was a good middle part. I suppose we'll only truly be able to tell when ME3 comes along, but as it stands it seems closer to being "The Empire Strikes Back" to "The Phantom Menace" than it does "The Empire Strikes Back" to "A New Hope"*

* = I'm not talking quality-wise here when it comes to the movies, I'm using the analogy to illustrate how far removed ME2 seems from ME1.

[Kane-Corr]

ah...Drew Karpyshyn by far. The atmosphere of the first game made me feel like I was wrapped into the world of Mass Effect. I love both games, but the first was the best for me (so Far)

[Ski Mask Wei]

It's probably unfair to blame Walters for the main plot of ME2 as he's probably working within the outline given to him. I find it REALLY hard to believe Bioware didn't have a basic plot outline for the three games before they started making them. In reality the doctors or somebody higher than them said "this needs to be a trilogy" before they had a story lengthy enough to actually be three 12+ hour games. The Reaper Saga could probably knocked out in two games but Bioware stretched it out to get that dough.

Sure there are probably legitimate reasons to rip him a new one on other things but I doubt the main plot arc is one them.

Modifié par Ski Mask Wei, 25 août 2010 - 03:40 .

[Mister Mida]

Ski Mask Wei wrote...

It's probably unfair to blame Walters for the main plot of ME2 as he's probably working within the outline given to him. I find it REALLY hard to believe Bioware didn't have a basic plot outline for the three games before they started making them. In reality the doctors or somebody higher than them said "this needs be a trilogy" before they had a story lengthy enough to actually be three 12+ hour games. The Reaper Saga could probably knocked out in two games but Bioware stretched it out to get that dough.

Sure there are probably legitimate reasons to rip him a new one on other things but I doubt the main plot arc is one them.

I doubt that anyone but Casey Hudson decided that it would be a trilogy. The docs know better than to lay down orders on their own employees that are not gonna be appreciated. And EA was only in it after ME (1) got released for 360.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 25 août 2010 - 08:58 .