Aller au contenu

So.... Fade was NOT the first realm? ( argument contradicted).

Débuté par Guest_SirShreK_* , juil. 21 2010 05:44

25 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 05:44

Guest_SirShreK_*
  • Guests
I came across something David said in his earlier posts:

"That's the environment. The Maker believed he was making the spirits in  His own image, that they would take their world and create out of it a  paradise for themselves. Yet they didn't. They lacked the ability to  imagine, and could only copy what they saw elsewhere... so the Fade  remained formless, and the spirits turned to their Maker for direction.

There was no mortal world back then, no mortals and no dreamers. The Maker  created His second children by forming a world for them -- a world they  could not shape with their will, and He seperated it from the reach of  the spirits with the Veil. Or so he thought. He never knew that the  spirits would watch across the Veil and grow jealous, and envy the  Maker's second children their ability to create which they would ever  strive to understand."


If the Spirits could not create (had no CREATIVITY) and only copied... WHAT DID THEY COPY IT FROM?

If I undestand correctly, there was nothing before the Fade was born.


EDIT: Source

Modifié par SirShreK, 21 juillet 2010 - 08:51 .

#2
AntiChri5
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 05:47

AntiChri5
  • Members
  • 7 965 messages
They didnt.

That is, if you take all these nursery rhyme creation myths as historical fact.

Modifié par AntiChri5, 21 juillet 2010 - 05:48 .

#3
Herr Uhl
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 05:48

Herr Uhl
  • Members
  • 13 465 messages

SirShreK wrote...

I came across something David said in his earlier posts:

"That's the environment. The Maker believed he was making the spirits in  His own image, that they would take their world and create out of it a  paradise for themselves. Yet they didn't. They lacked the ability to  imagine, and could only copy what they saw elsewhere... so the Fade  remained formless, and the spirits turned to their Maker for direction.

There was no mortal world back then, no mortals and no dreamers. The Maker  created His second children by forming a world for them -- a world they  could not shape with their will, and He seperated it from the reach of  the spirits with the Veil. Or so he thought. He never knew that the  spirits would watch across the Veil and grow jealous, and envy the  Maker's second children their ability to create which they would ever  strive to understand."


If the Spirits could not create (had no CREATIVITY) and only copied... WHAT DID THEY COPY IT FROM?

If I undestand correctly, there was nothing before the Fade was born.


I took it as that they just existed before that. Why should they do things?

#4
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 05:49

Guest_SirShreK_*
  • Guests

AntiChri5 wrote...

They copied what the Maker did.

That is, if you take all these nursery rhyme creation myths as historical fact.


Err.. I am not quoting the chantry..their mistakes are unmistakable. I am quoting David Gaider.

#5
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 05:50

Guest_SirShreK_*
  • Guests

Herr Uhl wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

I came across something David said in his earlier posts:

"That's the environment. The Maker believed he was making the spirits in  His own image, that they would take their world and create out of it a  paradise for themselves. Yet they didn't. They lacked the ability to  imagine, and could only copy what they saw elsewhere... so the Fade  remained formless, and the spirits turned to their Maker for direction.

There was no mortal world back then, no mortals and no dreamers. The Maker  created His second children by forming a world for them -- a world they  could not shape with their will, and He seperated it from the reach of  the spirits with the Veil. Or so he thought. He never knew that the  spirits would watch across the Veil and grow jealous, and envy the  Maker's second children their ability to create which they would ever  strive to understand."


If the Spirits could not create (had no CREATIVITY) and only copied... WHAT DID THEY COPY IT FROM?

If I undestand correctly, there was nothing before the Fade was born.


I took it as that they just existed before that. Why should they do things?


I am not questioning the why of it, as that is apparant. I am questioning the"how".

#6
AntiChri5
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 05:51

AntiChri5
  • Members
  • 7 965 messages

SirShreK wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

They didnt.

That is, if you take all these nursery rhyme creation myths as historical fact.


Err.. I am not quoting the chantry..their mistakes are unmistakable. I am quoting David Gaider.


And is he talking about the worlds lore, because that sounds like a codex entry almost word for word. David isnt just going to walk in and confirm the existence of the Maker.

How far out of context have you taken what he said?

Source?

#7
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 05:52

Guest_SirShreK_*
  • Guests
Source: http://old.dragonage...ngle/1248730260

#8
Grommash94
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 05:55

Grommash94
  • Members
  • 927 messages
I believe the codex entry says they just copied the Maker's own realm (the Golden City).

#9
Mary Kirby
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 05:55

Mary Kirby
  • BioWare Employees
  • 722 messages

SirShreK wrote...

Source: http://old.dragonage...ngle/1248730260


David's post is a paraphrase of what's in the Chant of Light. He didn't preface it with, "According to the Chantry," but that's what it is.

#10
Herr Uhl
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 05:57

Herr Uhl
  • Members
  • 13 465 messages

SirShreK wrote...

I am not questioning the why of it, as that is apparant. I am questioning the"how".


They just existed. They do not require food and do not age. How can an otherwordly realm exist in the first place?

I think that that story is told by the chantry to show that urgency makes life interesting.

#11
Lady Dino
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 05:58

Lady Dino
  • Members
  • 130 messages
When humans come to the fade they change it, through dreams or their deaths, or even just being stuck there. They make things out of the fade that demons and spirits don't even seem to completely comprehend. It brings to mind the movie Inception, where the main protagonist enters a dream and begins creating things. A demon put in the same place and given the same power would likely just sit around wishing he had some one cool to hang out with. Or at least that's what I think.

#12
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 05:58

Guest_SirShreK_*
  • Guests

Mary Kirby wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Source: http://old.dragonage...ngle/1248730260


David's post is a paraphrase of what's in the Chant of Light. He didn't preface it with, "According to the Chantry," but that's what it is.


(Sheepish) Oh. :( OK. Sorry. Somebody delete this thrad please, unless there is more intelligent input coming. :whistle:

#13
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 06:00

Guest_SirShreK_*
  • Guests

Lady Dino wrote...

When humans come to the fade they change it, through dreams or their deaths, or even just being stuck there. They make things out of the fade that demons and spirits don't even seem to completely comprehend. It brings to mind the movie Inception, where the main protagonist enters a dream and begins creating things. A demon put in the same place and given the same power would likely just sit around wishing he had some one cool to hang out with. Or at least that's what I think.


erm.. Do you mean HUMAN SOULS change the fade, by bbecoming spirits? (strangely there IS some evidence that this happens, but I would love to listen to you first).

#14
AntiChri5
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 06:06

AntiChri5
  • Members
  • 7 965 messages
 I believe David was summarising this:

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_Entry:_The_Maker's_First_Children

#15
AntiChri5
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 06:08

AntiChri5
  • Members
  • 7 965 messages
Ah, ninja'd in style.



Thank you, Mrs. Kirby.

#16
Svest
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 06:19

Svest
  • Members
  • 222 messages

SirShreK wrote...

erm.. Do you mean HUMAN SOULS change the fade, by bbecoming spirits? (strangely there IS some evidence that this happens, but I would love to listen to you first).


The spirits of the fade copy what they see from mortals.  When mortals (except dwarves) dream they enter the fade, the spirits can see these dreams and copy what they see. 

#17
Grommash94
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 06:20

Grommash94
  • Members
  • 927 messages

Svest wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

erm.. Do you mean HUMAN SOULS change the fade, by bbecoming spirits? (strangely there IS some evidence that this happens, but I would love to listen to you first).


The spirits of the fade copy what they see from mortals.  When mortals (except dwarves) dream they enter the fade, the spirits can see these dreams and copy what they see. 


Yep. I believe even Justice says that one reason some spirits believe in the Maker is because they saw him in the dreams of humans.

#18
Herr Uhl
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 06:22

Herr Uhl
  • Members
  • 13 465 messages

Grommash94 wrote...

Svest wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

erm.. Do you mean HUMAN SOULS change the fade, by bbecoming spirits? (strangely there IS some evidence that this happens, but I would love to listen to you first).


The spirits of the fade copy what they see from mortals.  When mortals (except dwarves) dream they enter the fade, the spirits can see these dreams and copy what they see. 


Yep. I believe even Justice says that one reason some spirits believe in the Maker is because they saw him in the dreams of humans.


So, in a way, religion could work like in discworld ;)

#19
Lady Dino
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 07:54

Lady Dino
  • Members
  • 130 messages

SirShreK wrote...

Lady Dino wrote...

When humans come to the fade they change it, through dreams or their deaths, or even just being stuck there. They make things out of the fade that demons and spirits don't even seem to completely comprehend. It brings to mind the movie Inception, where the main protagonist enters a dream and begins creating things. A demon put in the same place and given the same power would likely just sit around wishing he had some one cool to hang out with. Or at least that's what I think.


erm.. Do you mean HUMAN SOULS change the fade, by bbecoming spirits? (strangely there IS some evidence that this happens, but I would love to listen to you first).


Nah not what I meant. Like when you first wake up in the fade, and your dream of defeating the blight is made real. As the Warden, you have shaped this part of the fade. And then there is also the time in the blackmarsh where you enter a part of the fade shaped by the people who lived in that town. The spirit of Virtue, in the mage origin, tells you that, in the fade nothing is as it seems and anything you think can be made real. 

Spirits and demons do not have the life experiences or the creativity to create something like a dream, while humans on the other had can create whole cities, just by willing them into existence. Maybe I'm still not making sense but it's rather hard to explain since many people out there believe that the fade mirrors reality. As far as I know it doesn't. Those who enter the fade draw from reality to create things. :wizard:

#20
AntiChri5
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 07:57

AntiChri5
  • Members
  • 7 965 messages
Spirit of Valour, not Virtue.

#21
Mad Method
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 08:00

Mad Method
  • Members
  • 334 messages
Anyway, SirShrek, according to the Dalish, there is a third realm - the Beyond - where their gods and dead go. Dalish lore also asserted that they came back from the Beyond from time to time too.

Modifié par Mad Method, 21 juillet 2010 - 08:00 .

#22
AntiChri5
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 08:00

AntiChri5
  • Members
  • 7 965 messages
The Beyond is their word for the Fade.

#23
Kaiser Shepard
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 08:01

Kaiser Shepard
  • Members
  • 7 890 messages
Ten bucks say that the existance of the Fade will never be explained beyond "it has always been there" and that "the Maker" is merely the alias of a powerful spirit/god which did not create anything at all.

#24
AntiChri5
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 08:03

AntiChri5
  • Members
  • 7 965 messages
There is no Maker.



Unless, of course, we are talking about Gaider.

#25
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 21 juillet 2010 - 08:49

Guest_SirShreK_*
  • Guests

Mad Method wrote...

Anyway, SirShrek, according to the Dalish, there is a third realm - the Beyond - where their gods and dead go. Dalish lore also asserted that they came back from the Beyond from time to time too.


As a matter of fact there is at once an interesting and surprising thing in the comic book... Dragon age published by IDW (if I got that right). It seems that Mages that Die may linger on in Fade.... As some kind of mutated spirits... MY question to the Devs would be if the comic books are canon...
Retourner dans General Discussion


  1. The BioWare Forum
  2. → Dragon Age
  3. → Dragon Age II
  4. → General Discussion