805 réponses à ce sujet

[joriandrake]

David Gaider wrote...

Em23 wrote...
That's no reason to ignore femHawke altogether though...

That depends. As I understand it, part of the point of branding is providing images that the viewer can immediately associate with the brand. You dilute the image, do you gain anything for it in return? I don't really know. Perhaps if you made a femHawke that was also recognizeable as part of the brand? I'm not a marketing person-- but I will say that you've seen all of, what? A few images of Hawke so far? I think it's a bit early to declare our intentions as set in stone.

But as I said, by all means, ask for what you'd like to see.

I side with those who want to see a femHaw

[javierabegazo]

SebastianDA wrote...

To be fair, "Hawke" is a more masculine than feminine name.

If someone said "someone with the codename Hawke" how would you assign a gender to that person? I'd assume "Male."

If only they had chosen Raven or Macaw...
hmm, Raven, I like that

[Guns3]

javierabegazo wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I don't need these things to want to play the game, but if they were included I'd jump around like a pregnant lady with a pickle jar.

I had no idea pregnant ladies were so entralled by a jar of pickles...

Neither did I. Care to elaborate?

[joriandrake]

javierabegazo wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I don't need these things to want to play the game, but if they were included I'd jump around like a pregnant lady with a pickle jar.

I had no idea pregnant ladies were so entralled by a jar of pickles...

it is true

[Saibh]

Guns3 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I don't need these things to want to play the game, but if they were included I'd jump around like a pregnant lady with a pickle jar.

I had no idea pregnant ladies were so entralled by a jar of pickles...

Neither did I? Care to elaborate?

Oh, you don't know that cliche?

Lots of pregnant ladies have inexplicable cravings for sweet pickles. My sister would actually drink the pickle juice.

[joriandrake]

javierabegazo wrote...

SebastianDA wrote...

To be fair, "Hawke" is a more masculine than feminine name.

If someone said "someone with the codename Hawke" how would you assign a gender to that person? I'd assume "Male."

If only they had chosen Raven or Macaw...
hmm, Raven, I like that

I had named my main/first character on KOTOR Raven, before knowing he was Revan... imagine the irony that noone around him realized the truth despite this  

[joriandrake]

Saibh wrote...

Guns3 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I don't need these things to want to play the game, but if they were included I'd jump around like a pregnant lady with a pickle jar.

I had no idea pregnant ladies were so entralled by a jar of pickles...

Neither did I? Care to elaborate?

Oh, you don't know that cliche?

Lots of pregnant ladies have inexplicable cravings for sweet pickles. My sister would actually drink the pickle juice.

my mother did that too when she was pregnant with my sister

[hoysexyjew]

paperclipgirl102 wrote...







Male driven marketing

Male driven industry=male driven marketing.

sorry but that's how it works

[London]

I'm going to ask my Alistair fan club how they got intereted in Dragon Age. Like, what drew them to even play it? The website for that doesn't seem any more or less inclusive than what little we have for DA2, irrespective of Hawke. We just see a predominately male cast and male representations of the Warden, but there are still large numbers of women in love with the game.

[Super_Cat]

Saibh wrote...

I think "side-by-side" is a little much to ask--it gets pretty confusing on who exactly the girl is (most would assume female love interest).

Not if you gave them the same distinctive facial scar like the promotional Hawke has. Then people will know it's the male and female different versions of the same character.

[javierabegazo]

Saibh wrote...

Oh, you don't know that cliche?

Lots of pregnant ladies have inexplicable cravings for sweet pickles. My sister would actually drink the pickle juice.

Oh my...  pickle juice?

[London]

"Male driven industry = male driven marketing" is kind of a self-fullfilling prophecy, no? I mean, why ever increase your female clientle by actually marketing to them?



As more and more attention and research is being devoted to the growing number of female gamers, things will change in time.

[Saibh]

SebastianDA wrote...

I'm going to ask my Alistair fan club how they got intereted in Dragon Age. Like, what drew them to even play it? The website for that doesn't seem any more or less inclusive than what little we have for DA2, irrespective of Hawke. We just see a predominately male cast and male representations of the Warden, but there are still large numbers of women in love with the game.

I played it because it's BioWare. Actually, I was cut off from the internet for a few years, and one day I was playing through my XBox Live and I read "from the makers of Mass Effect comes a dark fantasy..." and I kid you not, I didn't need to read any further to scream "Sold!!" and bought it two weeks later.

To clarify, I play BioWare for their characters and story--with the romances being a big, big plus.

[javierabegazo]

Super_Cat wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I think "side-by-side" is a little much to ask--it gets pretty confusing on who exactly the girl is (most would assume female love interest).

Not if you gave them the same distinctive facial scar like the promotional Hawke has. Then people will know it's the male and female different versions of the same character.

I disagree. If I saw that, I would automatically assume their related somehow, either through story or by family, I'd never assume that oh, two character, I must be able to play either of them

[Saibh]

Super_Cat wrote...

Not if you gave them the same distinctive facial scar like the promotional Hawke has. Then people will know it's the male and female different versions of the same character.

I think you're assuming something very sweet about our intelligence, and just a tad idealistic.

[Ziggy]

David Gaider wrote...

Em23 wrote...

That's no reason to ignore femHawke altogether though...

That depends. As I understand it, part of the point of branding is providing images that the viewer can immediately associate with the brand. You dilute the image, do you gain anything for it in return? I don't really know. Perhaps if you made a femHawke that was also recognizeable as part of the brand? I'm not a marketing person-- but I will say that you've seen all of, what? A few images of Hawke so far? I think it's a bit early to declare our intentions as set in stone.



But as I said, by all means, ask for what you'd like to see.

You'd gain gamers who didn't want to play it because they thought you had to play as a male. I doubt successful marketing depends on pretending femHawke doesn't exist. If what Bioware did with ME is anything to go by then I don't think it's too early to bring up the issue.

[iTomes]

Super_Cat wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I think "side-by-side" is a little much to ask--it gets pretty confusing on who exactly the girl is (most would assume female love interest).

Not if you gave them the same distinctive facial scar like the promotional Hawke has. Then people will know it's the male and female different versions of the same character.

id actually bet someone elses soul that almost nobody would get it. nope, really, nobody would. humans are stupid. and very fast with senseless interpretations..

[steelmccoy]

Guns3 wrote...

There's not even a problem here.

Says you? I think a lot of women have spoken up and voiced their concerns in a thoughtful, respectful way in this thread. There may not be a problem for you, but there clearly is for some.

Guns3 wrote...

There are more males playing so the poster character is male. There is a smaller female population so there is a female counterpart if you wish to play one. Simple as that.

Just because the most players are male doesn't mean that you should ignore the minority. If 25% of the players are female, why not have 25% of the marketing directed at them? I highly doubt that men would be as upset by the occasional appearance of a well-portrayed female character as women are by the complete absence thereof.

That said, I do think Bioware has done a great job in their games in terms of handling these types of issues. I think that their games feature strong women, and they've handled same-sex relationships in a very mature way. Based on David Gaider's response to this thread, I think that they are paying attention and that this approach will continue. It's encouraging to see such a positive response to these concerns.

[Lyssistr]

SebastianDA wrote...

"Male driven industry = male driven marketing" is kind of a self-fullfilling prophecy, no? I mean, why ever increase your female clientle by actually marketing to them?

As more and more attention and research is being devoted to the growing number of female gamers, things will change in time.

From what I understand, he may be referring to developers and that's not false, software related fields are usually male-dominated.

[London]

I really think based on that fan club, where most of the discussion threads are about how to manipulate dialogue to get the romance choices we want, that the marketing of Romance options was a huge draw to women (and other people like me who enjoy them).



Of course, I was also immersed in the storyline, and the fact that the cast is now aged 18 or below like most of the RPG's I'm used to seeing. So, finding a more mature RPG is a boon in and of itself, but I also bought Dragon Age with no prior knowledge of Bioware because of the Romance options.

[Hawksblud]

RosaAquafire wrote...
I really
liked Hawksblud's post about how nobody is asking for the BeardHawke to
be replaced, just accompanied. That's fantastically well said

Thank you muchly

David Gaider wrote...
I'm not a marketing person-- but I will say that you've
seen all of, what? A few images of Hawke so far? I think it's a bit
early to declare our intentions as set in stone.

I don't think anyone is trying to prescribe your intentions, simply to try and inform the community (not just devs, mind you) for the future. Because if things don't get said, then they generally do not get considered. We're speaking up because on a fundamental level, we care. We want you to get everything right and release a fantastic game. And we believe that through discourse everyone can be educated on this issue, and on others. Because, as you said, it is a touchy, sticky subject where feelings get hurt easily and there are six opinions for every three people.

javierabegazo wrote...

Saibh wrote...
I don't need these things to want to play the game, but if they were included I'd jump around like a pregnant lady with a pickle jar.

I had no idea pregnant ladies were so entralled by a jar of pickles...

The more you know?  xD Maker, this topic is moving fast.

[hoysexyjew]

Loria232 wrote...

Lord Gremlin wrote...


Ok. Default Hawke looks like an ass, same applies with Shepard. Problem? I don't sympathize with them, I want to kill them.

so true

Am I seriously the only one that thinks default male shepard is a pretty good looking guy?, this is coming from a sraight guy too.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I've thought about this a fair amount, given that I only ever played a female Shepard in ME.

Except my Shepard's face was important, and only I ever saw that. So I don't think I missed anything by having not seen any marketing with her in it.

But, I can see why it might have been a problem had I seen a lot of marketing and was worried about being able to play a character more like what I preferred. If the marketing were especially male (or even aggressive, given my preference for less aggressive characters), I can see why seeing only characters who are unrecognisable to me would make me wonder whether the game supported my playstyle.

[Guns3]

steelmccoy wrote...

Guns3 wrote...

There's not even a problem here.

Says you? I think a lot of women have spoken up and voiced their concerns in a thoughtful, respectful way in this thread. There may not be a problem for you, but there clearly is for some.

Guns3 wrote...

There are more males playing so the poster character is male. There is a smaller female population so there is a female counterpart if you wish to play one. Simple as that.

Just because the most players are male doesn't mean that you should ignore the minority. If 25% of the players are female, why not have 25% of the marketing directed at them? I highly doubt that men would be as upset by the occasional appearance of a well-portrayed female character as women are by the complete absence thereof.

That said, I do think Bioware has done a great job in their games in terms of handling these types of issues. I think that their games feature strong women, and they've handled same-sex relationships in a very mature way. Based on David Gaider's response to this thread, I think that they are paying attention and that this approach will continue. It's encouraging to see such a positive response to these concerns.

How is that ignoring the minority? The minority is a minor group thus represented less, but still represented. Women are still represented in trailers through supporting characters and have the option ingame to be the main character, but aren't represented as much as males. Makes perfect sense.

hoysexyjew wrote...

Loria232 wrote...

Lord
Gremlin wrote...


Ok. Default Hawke looks like an ass, same
applies with Shepard. Problem? I don't sympathize with them, I want to
kill them.

so true

Am I seriously the only one
that thinks default male shepard is a pretty good looking guy?, this is
coming from a sraight guy too.

I agree with you.
Most of the people are just trying to be hip and edgy.

Modifié par Guns3, 22 juillet 2010 - 06:00 .