805 réponses à ce sujet

[Aristorum]

I love Bioware with all my heart, but I'm growing continually more and more disappointed with the fact that there hasn't been a lead, marketed, and promoted female protagonist. I think it's the fact that they COULD create a great leading lady but choose not to.

[Addai]

Saibh wrote...

SebastianDA wrote...

I'm going to ask my Alistair fan club how they got intereted in Dragon Age. Like, what drew them to even play it? The website for that doesn't seem any more or less inclusive than what little we have for DA2, irrespective of Hawke. We just see a predominately male cast and male representations of the Warden, but there are still large numbers of women in love with the game.

I played it because it's BioWare. Actually, I was cut off from the internet for a few years, and one day I was playing through my XBox Live and I read "from the makers of Mass Effect comes a dark fantasy..." and I kid you not, I didn't need to read any further to scream "Sold!!" and bought it two weeks later.

To clarify, I play BioWare for their characters and story--with the romances being a big, big plus.

My husband got it and told me I'd like it, and I had played Fallout 3 and Oblivion so it didn't seem like a stretch.  I almost gave up on it because I found the combat really hard.  Pretty sure that it was Alistair's romance that kept me playing.  I had done MUSH (text-based roleplaying) and email RPG but had always looked down on the toon games, however the depth of NPC interactions and the quality of the writing in DAO astounded me.

My whole foray into modern video games started when I walked past my husband doing the Fallout 3 tutorial and  heard the baby cooing at Liam Neeson.  That's what did it.  I can feel the men rolling their eyes out there in gameland.

Modifié par Addai67, 22 juillet 2010 - 06:08 .

[joriandrake]

javierabegazo wrote...

Super_Cat wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I think "side-by-side" is a little much to ask--it gets pretty confusing on who exactly the girl is (most would assume female love interest).

Not if you gave them the same distinctive facial scar like the promotional Hawke has. Then people will know it's the male and female different versions of the same character.

I disagree. If I saw that, I would automatically assume their related somehow, either through story or by family, I'd never assume that oh, two character, I must be able to play either of them

hawing two (although same sex) characters for commercial for KOTOR worked too

[London]

Hmm...okay. I just did a tiny experiment. I pretended I had no idea what Dragon Age is and went to the website and put on my "gay guy with decades of hanging out with too many women and being raised by sisters" hat.



It does look like the logo/photo is a "guys come play, women keep out" type of website. Not really because Hawke is male, but because he's also rather unattractive. Dark and dirty and hairy looking. Without knowing Bioware/Dragon Age better, I'd probably dismiss this as a "guy game."



I think one example of definitive marketing towards female gamers was Final Fantasy VIII with it's Squall/Rinoa hugging logo lol. I'd just add another paragraph on Romances! with some scenes of people talking to help the site lol.

[LilBudyWizer]

I don't know. I think they would have to change the heroes name from Mike Hawke to Mike Hunt to use a female

[RosaAquafire]

SebastianDA wrote...

I'm going to ask my Alistair fan club how they got intereted in Dragon Age. Like, what drew them to even play it? The website for that doesn't seem any more or less inclusive than what little we have for DA2, irrespective of Hawke. We just see a predominately male cast and male representations of the Warden, but there are still large numbers of women in love with the game.

To be perfectly honest, for me, it was twot hings

A) Romance options. A friend of mine was talking about this game -- SHE got interested because of that art of Morrigan in a google ad -- and I was like oh, hm, really? I had liked the old Baldur's Gate I well enough, though I have some issues with it, but it was enough to catch my interest long enough to read up. When I read about the romance options, that was what got me interested enough to find out more.

The second thing was the origins in general. Moreover, the city elf origin in particular, including, yes, the art of the female city elf in her bloodstained wedding gown snarling at the offscreen human attacker. She looked so simultaneously desperate and badass that she provided the basis for my first DA:O character

[paperclipgirl102]

steelmccoy wrote...



That said, I do think Bioware has done a great job in their games in terms of handling these types of issues. I think that their games feature strong women, and they've handled same-sex relationships in a very mature way. Based on David Gaider's response to this thread, I think that they are paying attention and that this approach will continue. It's encouraging to see such a positive response to these concerns.

I really appreciate the feedback. I agree that Bioware is paying attention and I hope to see a change in the gaming industries ways of marketing to and selling the female image. Stronger female protagonists are needed.

Thanks everyone for discussing in a very cool manner. I had no idea people were so opinionated on the subject.

[Ziggy]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I've thought about this a fair amount, given that I only ever played a female Shepard in ME.

Except my Shepard's face was important, and only I ever saw that. So I don't think I missed anything by having not seen any marketing with her in it.

Maybe if her default face had had a face model like sheploo...

[Saibh]

SebastianDA wrote...

It does look like the logo/photo is a "guys come play, women keep out" type of website. Not really because Hawke is male, but because he's also rather unattractive. Dark and dirty and hairy looking. Without knowing Bioware/Dragon Age better, I'd probably dismiss this as a "guy game."
.

...He looks rather attractive to me. Twinges that Tall, Dark, and Handsome + bad boy hormone. Which, I'm sure, the marketing department was very careful to trigger.

Still, so many girls are used to "guys games" very few will write one off when they see it. I will say, however, if I knew nothing of BioWare and was unable to find much trace of a female Hawke without extensive digging, I probably wouldn't buy it for a couple of years until it got really cheap. Same thing if it didn't have romances.

[Hawksblud]

TBH, I started with Bioware because of KOTOR. (My first real video game obsession, ever, was X-Wing Fighter, to give some background.) As soon as I found out that I could (a) be a Jedi, and ( be a girl Jedi, well, nothing could keep me away from it. The Bioware addiction snowballed from there. Though I do see how the romance options are generally a draw for women, I would also point out the strong, well thought out characters in the party. It's nice to have a friend at your back.

[London]

Maybe the poster for Dragon Age should be Bella Hawke frowning and looking depressed, while Edward Companion and Jacob Companion fight over her while some darkspawn look confused in the background.

[RosaAquafire]

Hawksblud wrote...

TBH, I started with Bioware because of KOTOR. (My first real video game obsession, ever, was X-Wing Fighter, to give some background.) As soon as I found out that I could (a) be a Jedi, and ( be a girl Jedi, well, nothing could keep me away from it. The Bioware addiction snowballed from there. Though I do see how the romance options are generally a draw for women, I would also point out the strong, well thought out characters in the party. It's nice to have a friend at your back.

Oh, for sure. While the romances were my initial draw, among my favourite things about my first DA:O game was my character's deep friendship with Leliana and Morrigan, both such amazing characters. Morrigan's "I may not deserve your friendship" line at the end of DA:O killed me my first time through. I really hope that DA2 has more "BFF" paths that are as deep as romances

[joriandrake]

SebastianDA wrote...

Maybe the poster for Dragon Age should be Bella Hawke frowning and looking depressed, while Edward Companion and Jacob Companion fight over her while some darkspawn look confused in the background.

now this i wanna see

[London]

Maybe it could end with Flemeth-Dragon getting annoyed and stepping on all 3. lol

[Hawksblud]

SebastianDA wrote...
Maybe the poster for Dragon Age should be Bella Hawke frowning and looking depressed, while Edward Companion and Jacob Companion fight over her while some darkspawn look confused in the background.

And now there's coffee all over my keyboard, thanks.

[Lyssistr]

 Solution found, one protagonist Mr. Hawke & stick to Caltech's old saying: "where men are men, and the women are men too!" 

[Addai]

SebastianDA wrote...

It does look like the logo/photo is a "guys come play, women keep out" type of website. Not really because Hawke is male, but because he's also rather unattractive. Dark and dirty and hairy looking. Without knowing Bioware/Dragon Age better, I'd probably dismiss this as a "guy game."

All games are like that, though.  Seriously, a game store ranks just under an adult bookstore as a place where you... just don't fit in.  And don't much care about the merchandise.

I'm in my 30s, though, and I think that will change for newer generations as more women tell their friends about games they like and younger women with a gaming habit grow up and start waving their wallets at game designers.  Seriously, I can't fault Bioware at all, after playing a game that not only had such poignant story lines, a sweet romance story like Alistair's that practically doesn't exist anymore, AND pretty realistic female body models.

[joriandrake]

Hawksblud wrote...

SebastianDA wrote...
Maybe the poster for Dragon Age should be Bella Hawke frowning and looking depressed, while Edward Companion and Jacob Companion fight over her while some darkspawn look confused in the background.

And now there's coffee all over my keyboard, thanks.

try to slurp it up before it ruins the keyboard

[AndrastesKnickers]

joriandrake wrote...

SebastianDA wrote...

Maybe the poster for Dragon Age should be Bella Hawke frowning and looking depressed, while Edward Companion and Jacob Companion fight over her while some darkspawn look confused in the background.

now this i wanna see

and in the light it would sparkle

[okiness]

Addai67 wrote...

SebastianDA wrote...

It does look like the logo/photo is a "guys come play, women keep out" type of website. Not really because Hawke is male, but because he's also rather unattractive. Dark and dirty and hairy looking. Without knowing Bioware/Dragon Age better, I'd probably dismiss this as a "guy game."

All games are like that, though.  Seriously, a game store ranks just under an adult bookstore as a place where you... just don't fit in.  And don't much care about the merchandise.

I'm in my 30s, though, and I think that will change for newer generations as more women tell their friends about games they like and younger women with a gaming habit grow up and start waving their wallets at game designers.  Seriously, I can't fault Bioware at all, after playing a game that not only had such poignant story lines, a sweet romance story like Alistair's that practically doesn't exist anymore, AND pretty realistic female body models.

..I concede. Seriously. You've just kind of made me go "oh." It's true, my general bitterness about all the advertisements being male is because it's always this way. But aside from advertising they are pretty good about women, even making what men and women typically agree is one of the deeper female characters in video gaming lately. 

[Aristorum]

SebastianDA wrote...

Maybe the poster for Dragon Age should be Bella Hawke frowning and looking depressed, while Edward Companion and Jacob Companion fight over her while some darkspawn look confused in the background.

It's pop culture media like that that leaves women looking stupid.

[Chairon de Celeste]

Lyssistr wrote...

 Solution found, one protagonist Mr. Hawke & stick to Caltech's old saying: "where men are men, and the women are men too!" 

Like the diskworld dwarves? You can tell their gender by the color of the ribbons in their beards.

at least Bethany's and Flemeth look convincing in the screenshots - Hawke is a mere bar brawl ruffian
on both pre-alpha screenshots and concept art.

Modifié par Chairon de Celeste, 22 juillet 2010 - 06:25 .

[joriandrake]

Aristorum wrote...

SebastianDA wrote...

Maybe the poster for Dragon Age should be Bella Hawke frowning and looking depressed, while Edward Companion and Jacob Companion fight over her while some darkspawn look confused in the background.

It's pop culture media like that that leaves women looking stupid.

what? if anything at all, it makes the men look stupid

[London]

And "ugly guys get drunk and women suddenly want to sleep with them movies" speak so well of our gender. lol

[Aristorum]

joriandrake wrote...

Aristorum wrote...

SebastianDA wrote...

Maybe the poster for Dragon Age should be Bella Hawke frowning and looking depressed, while Edward Companion and Jacob Companion fight over her while some darkspawn look confused in the background.

It's pop culture media like that that leaves women looking stupid.

what? if anything at all, it makes the men look stupid

Men are smart enough not to read it.