805 réponses à ce sujet

[Mercuron]

I think if it wasn't gender inequality being a problem in marketing, it'd just be the next popular minority down in the food chain. Gays, blacks, Jews, clowns ... you can't represent them all without diluting the market image down to the point where you have just a big mural of niche-representing characters blotting out everything else. So maybe the next best thing is to have one character that has a good chance of appealing to the biggest market and some chance of interesting the other niche markets out there.

While I appreciate that women gamers are ostensibly the second-biggest market after guys, I have to think that scruffy Greek-beard Hawke is aimed to draw the basic gamer guy in (especially with that 'fight like a spartan' line) while being umm... decent enough eye candy for the woman to at least glance at the box?

To some degree, I also think it's about which groups are likely to accept non-representation and still buy the game anyway. The big male demographic has plenty of game marketing that isn't scared about throwing as many guns, musclemen and vampiric lesbian strippers at them as is necessary to sell their product, so anything that's not trying as hard can easily be ignored. Niche demographics on the other hand, may seem accustomed enough to being overlooked that marketing assumes those people will make their decisions on factors other than what's on the face of the marketing campaign.

Just a layman's thoughts.

[Chairon de Celeste]

Wel, I still fail to see how picking a male brute skould do the marketing any good.
That guy looks like he'd always pick out the weakest human or elven victim
out of a crowd and then expose it to unspeakable indignities.

Modifié par Chairon de Celeste, 22 juillet 2010 - 08:37 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Chairon de Celeste wrote...

Wel, I still fail to see how picking a male brute skould do the marketing any good.
That guy looks like he'd always pick out the weakest human or elven victim
out of a crowd and then expose it to unspeakable indignities.

And so too do about 90% of male video game protagonists.  Somehow the marketing for Halo, Duke Nukem, Gears of War, and the like still manages to do its job.  We shall never know   Getting upset at BioWare for marketing primarily to males in the video game industry is like getting upset at movie studios for marketing Twilight primarily to females.  Wiggity whaaa?

[Monstruo696]

Chairon de Celeste wrote...

Wel, I still fail to see how picking a male brute skould do the marketing any good.
That guy looks like he'd always pick out the weakest human or elven victim
out of a crowd and then expose it to unspeakable indignities.

I still fail to see the appeal of Barbie dolls.

Or trying to look like the supermodel in a magazine when said image has gone through numerous digital enhancements, a pound of make-up, and a horrible diet regime.

[Suicider_11]

Mercuron wrote...

I think if it wasn't gender inequality being a problem in marketing, it'd just be the next popular minority down in the food chain. Gays, blacks, Jews, clowns ... you can't represent them all without diluting the market image down to the point where you have just a big mural of niche-representing characters blotting out everything else. So maybe the next best thing is to have one character that has a good chance of appealing to the biggest market and some chance of interesting the other niche markets out there.
While I appreciate that women gamers are ostensibly the second-biggest market after guys, I have to think that scruffy Greek-beard Hawke is aimed to draw the basic gamer guy in (especially with that 'fight like a spartan' line) while being umm... decent enough eye candy for the woman to at least glance at the box?
To some degree, I also think it's about which groups are likely to accept non-representation and still buy the game anyway. The big male demographic has plenty of game marketing that isn't scared about throwing as many guns, musclemen and vampiric lesbian strippers at them as is necessary to sell their product, so anything that's not trying as hard can easily be ignored. Niche demographics on the other hand, may seem accustomed enough to being overlooked that marketing assumes those people will make their decisions on factors other than what's on the face of the marketing campaign.
Just a layman's thoughts.

spot on

[Koffeegirl]

I don't mind them using Hawke as the marketing icon.....but I would like to see some concept art of Lady Hawke before the game comes out. I don't see the harm in putting one picture of concept art of her on the DA2 website once it gets closer to the date. If they don't do it will I still buy the game? Absolutely. I love playing Dragon Age....it would just be nice to see what they were thinking when they came up with the concept of Lady Hawke.....does the default Hawke look like Bethany...is she a mage or a warrior or a rogue...I know that in game it doesn't matter bc we choose....but I like looking at the concept art to see the idea behind the finished game and I think it would be really great if Bioware could put a picture up (not now as I know its very early) but closer to release or if there is a CE include some with that......

[Firky]

Mercuron wrote...


While I appreciate that women gamers are ostensibly the second-biggest market after guys, I have to think that scruffy Greek-beard Hawke is aimed to draw the basic gamer guy in (especially with that 'fight like a spartan' line) while being umm... decent enough eye candy for the woman to at least glance at the box?

Works for me. And interesting post. What I don't understand is how on Earth do you market for such a wide audience; gamers?

My experience of female gamers is that we are a really diverse bunch who play different genres and like different things/are turned off by different things. And I know male gamers who like scantily armoured female characters for the eye candy. Other male gamers I know don't like scantily armoured female characters because they feel it paints them as immature.

I remember seeing Morrigan in a preview somewhere and rolling my eyes at her robes (not just because she was scantily clad, but because surely that outfit + battle = wardrobe malfunction) but when I got to know Morrigan and learned what she was, her outfit makes sense. One thing I always trust Bioware on is that they are true to making genuine characters.

Seems to me that if male Hawke ends up being the "face" of the game, there might be some deeper reason for it than just "marketing to male gamers". It might not specifically attract some female gamers but its probably not going to turn most female gamers away either.

[MaxQuartiroli]

I'd really like to know if it would be so difficult or wrong to realize something like this for marketing, a thing they already did in the past.. And Wu the Lotus Blossom, a femal character, IS the icon of that game..

Ah yes, sorry, I forgot they have disowned it...

[Massadonious1]

Yes, it's clearly a concept they totally abandoned.



Oh wait.

[Chairon de Celeste]

Monstruo696 wrote...

I still fail to see the appeal of Barbie dolls.

Or trying to look like the supermodel in a magazine when said image has gone through numerous digital enhancements, a pound of make-up, and a horrible diet regime.

AImo's alternate version.
(right click on image and chose 'show image')

Check

barbie doll: no

enhancement: no

make up: no,  facial tattoo

diet: no

Modifié par Chairon de Celeste, 22 juillet 2010 - 09:55 .

[Massadonious1]

Looks like a skinny teenage boy to me.

[MaxQuartiroli]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Yes, it's clearly a concept they totally abandoned.

Oh wait.

Who is the main character in that cover? Wu.. while the other characters are there to sourround

Would you like another?

Jade Empire: FASHIONED BY LADYKILLER.. more femal driven than this...

[Chairon de Celeste]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Looks like a skinny teenage boy to me.

Marjelaine's and Morrigan's thoughts about Leliana exatcly

[Lord Gremlin]

TMZuk wrote...

I find Hawke and the way he is depicted incredibly annoying.

He's so directed towards kids sorely in need of another sinewy, testoterone-filled Supah-Heroh, that it is appaling. EA's attempts at stuffing franchise down the thoats of sixteen-year old boys, is creating the side-effect of chasing away those who do not fit into that age- and gender-group.

This. Exactly this. Luckily for Bioware target audience is used to ignoring their marketing and buying the game anyway.

[Chairon de Celeste]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

I find Hawke and the way he is depicted incredibly annoying.

He's so directed towards kids sorely in need of another sinewy, testoterone-filled Supah-Heroh, that it is appaling. EA's attempts at stuffing franchise down the thoats of sixteen-year old boys, is creating the side-effect of chasing away those who do not fit into that age- and gender-group.

This. Exactly this. Luckily for Bioware target audience is used to ignoring their marketing and buying the game anyway.

Yep, that was roughly my thougt from back thenwhen Neverwinter Nights was announced on:

'Their games are successful despite their marketing campaigns, not because of them.'

History just repeats itself for DA 2 RtP.

Modifié par Chairon de Celeste, 22 juillet 2010 - 10:19 .

[Massadonious1]

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

Yes, it's clearly a concept they totally abandoned.

Oh wait.

Who is the main character in that cover? Wu.. while the other characters are there to sourround

One of 7 pre-defined main characters, which is completely different from how ME handled character creation. Default MaleShep or FemShep wasn't everyone's character.

And whether they are in the forefront or background is nitpicking. Point being, using females on their covers clearly didn't die with Jade Empire.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 22 juillet 2010 - 10:23 .

[MaxQuartiroli]

Massadonious1 wrote...

MaxQuartiroli wrote...

Who is the main character in that cover? Wu.. while the other characters are there to sourround

One of 7 pre-defined main characters, which is completely different from how ME handled character creation. Default MaleShep or FemShep wasn't everyone's character.

And whether they are in the forefront or background is nitpicking. Point being, using females on their covers clearly didn't die with Jade Empire.

I am not talking about the covers, but about the collective symbolic image of games..
When you name me "Jade Empire" the first image that come in my mind is Wu.. on a second instance Death's Hand. This means the marketing campaing was made in a certain way..using a femal character like the icon (or one of the 2 icons of the game)

When you name me Mass Effect the first image that come in my mind is defualt male Shepard and anything else, no matter how they did the covers of the game. This means they did a different marketing for that game

Hey... I am not arguing what is better because in the end I always buy the games, no matter if the marketing is male, female or nug driven.. I am only saying they shouldn't deny in the past they did female (or at least balanced) driven marketing... 

Modifié par MaxQuartiroli, 22 juillet 2010 - 10:37 .

[Dreadstruck]

Chairon de Celeste wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

Looks like a skinny teenage boy to me.

Marjelaine's and Morrigan's thoughts about Leliana exatcly

With the exception that Leliana ingame uses the same body mesh as the rest of female characters in DA.

[Bobad]

Well the macho image is aimed at the young male market, with the idea that a scrawny teenager can live vicariously through a game as the societal ideal of the protector male, this ideal has been in place since we climbed out of the trees and you could argue is hard wired in the human psyche.

[Tirigon]

Magnum Opus wrote...


Appealing: No.

Sorry, but it just isn't.  If that were the box art for a game that I saw sitting on the store shelf but otherwise knew nothing about, I'd pass it by.   But then, I'm firmly in the demographic of... what was it, now?... testosterone-fuelled adolescents? that Bioware's obviously targeting. 

Yeah.  That must be it.

Seriously? Maybe you just have taste.

Aimo makes some great stuff, but the Lady Hawke cover is the worst I´ve ever seen of her.

[Chairon de Celeste]

Avalla'ch wrote...

Chairon de Celeste wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

Looks like a skinny teenage boy to me.

Marjelaine's and Morrigan's thoughts about Leliana exatcly

With the exception that Leliana ingame uses the same body mesh as the rest of female characters in DA.

PC version users can adress that with a replacer based on natural bodies.
About time the thoughts on making pc content available leave Microsoft's
and Sony's marketing hogswash phase and become real - preferably while
the DA series and many other cross platform games are still young.

[Tirigon]

Orchomene wrote...

Typical fantasy picture :
http://www.cracked.c.../conanintro.jpg

A strong male hero holding a weapon with an almost nude female at his feet. It has become some standard that takes time to culturally change.

and




Thoughts anyone?

[Chuvvy]

Massadonious1 wrote...

Looks like a skinny teenage boy to me.

It's like I'm actually playing a JRPG!