805 réponses à ce sujet

[Lyssistr]

I'm a guy and I prefer front covers with girls, I'd rather have DA2 with Megan Fawkes in middle ages uniform but I'll cope with what's available.

[Heimdall]

I don't try to understand the choice as I never choose my games based off the guy on the cover. I couldn't care less that they choose to put a male character on the cover

[RosaAquafire]

Monstruo696 wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

Jigero wrote...

1st of all DA:O's ads also depicted the Grey warden as a Male.

The male human noble was sort of default, yes, and BW fell back on him in most BIG ads, like the Sacred Ashes trailer. But the "default" city elf, castless dwarf, and mage were all female in their concept art and trailers. That was a fair compromise to me

Does it matter?

I know I'm a guy saying this, but if the game were mostly female and I had an interest in the game, I really wouldn't care so long as I can still play a guy.

Not that I'm faulting you, I'm just asking you if it really matters that much?

It's a matter of principle to me I'm a feminist to the core, and I do think that there's an issue that male is considered "default" in our culture. I think it's a serious issue that a game could potentially lose sales by having a female protagonist, and I think that it's an even more serious issue that companies are so afraid of losing those sales that they'll conform to that sexist attitude.

Does it affect the end product game? No, it doesn't. But everything isn't about the end result, and it DOES make girls feel a little second-class to have this male fantasy beefcake who we don't find relatable OR attractive paraded around, only to be told quietly on the sidelikes "it's alright, dear, you can have your female character in the game, we're just mildly ashamed of her and can't show her off."

[mopotter]

Andrastee wrote...

As a woman, I find it annoying, but I guess I can see where they're coming from. When games do get promoted with female characters, the tone is almost invariably 'look at this sexy chick wearing next to nothing!' which I would find even more annoying. So I guess Mike Hawke is the lesser of two potential evils from the marketing department.

I also find it annoying, and yes the sexy chick with the chainmail bra that would annoy me more because it would not be aimed at potential women players it would be aimed at the same male group they are trying for now.  And they are missing a whole group of potential buyers.  Women of all ages, who like a great story and think all video games are like Halo or Street Fighter.

I don't smoke, but I think the marketing people should look at how cigarettes were marketed to women and how many took up the habit because of the marketing.  I'm not comparing the two, although my husband does say I'm addicted to video games, but I am saying that if they marketed their games showing that women do enjoy playing them, and use some of the fan base they already have to show it, since we are a diverse group of women, more would be interested in trying them which would be more profits for the company.

[TMZuk]

I find Hawke and the way he is depicted incredibly annoying.

He's so directed towards kids sorely in need of another sinewy, testoterone-filled Supah-Heroh, that it is appaling. EA's attempts at stuffing franchise down the thoats of sixteen-year old boys, is creating the side-effect of chasing away those who do not fit into that age- and gender-group.

Modifié par TMZuk, 22 juillet 2010 - 12:59 .

[andar91]

The marketing doesn't really bother me when I know that the actual game doesn't care about gender as far as who you're playing as. It really is just simple marketing: more males play Bioware's rpg's=a male iconic character that they can relate to. The problem with female icons like Lara Croft is that they often become as much sex symbols as they are iconic heroines. People don't always get that she's smart, strong, independent, and noble, among other things.



I feel your frustration, I really do. I'm a guy, but I run into the same sort of thing when everything is marketed towards straight males (I'm gay) and there's some half-naked woman bouncing around somewhere constantly, or when lesbians abound but somehow want men to join in the fun (insert eye roll). I don't necessarily want a half-naked man on my game covers either because I'd rather things be treated tastefully, but you see what I'm getting at.



Male driven marketing is just that: marketing. They want to sell a game and do it the best way they know how. I do think that Bioware is much better about gender roles in their games than many other games. The females (and males) in their games run the gamut of personalities. Women, for example, actually get armor that cover their boobs!!! So it's a little give and a little take in the end, at least in my opinion.

[lv12medic]

I always thought a good marketing ploy for games that let you be male or female would be to use a mirror image with both genders on the cover/ads.



Though I suppose it'd just look incredibly confusing to some.

[Loc'n'lol]

I 'd much much rather have bearded Hawke than a half-naked chick with a sword bigger than her...
If I want to see naked women I know where to look for, putting one on the cover of a product just feels insulting.

lv12medic wrote...

I always thought a good marketing ploy
for games that let you be male or female would be to use a mirror image
with both genders on the cover/ads.

Though I suppose it'd just look incredibly confusing to some.

Agreed with both.

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 22 juillet 2010 - 01:05 .

[Saibh]

Monstruo696 wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

Jigero wrote...

1st of all DA:O's ads also depicted the Grey warden as a Male.

The male human noble was sort of default, yes, and BW fell back on him in most BIG ads, like the Sacred Ashes trailer. But the "default" city elf, castless dwarf, and mage were all female in their concept art and trailers. That was a fair compromise to me

Does it matter?

I know I'm a guy saying this, but if the game were mostly female and I had an interest in the game, I really wouldn't care so long as I can still play a guy.

Not that I'm faulting you, I'm just asking you if it really matters that much?

Mmm...it's the unfortune of the majority to be unable to understand the minority. I'm not saying that's your fault or that I'm angry at you, I'm just saying that it's very difficult to understand if your not the one being shorthanded.

The way a lot of women see it is that playing as a woman is less important, that being a female gamer means you matter less, and that game companies could  care less if you exist.

I completely understand wanting to have a "face" --DA had Morrigan, ME has John Shepard--since, in consumer's heads, it allows for quick identification and product awareness, but the PC females are rarely ever shown, or even acknowledged. It's like being the shameful secret of the company when a female PC
isn't even depicted.

[Altima Darkspells]

So it seems our only choices are either a muscle-bound space marine, sloppily shaven bad-boy or an over-sexualized, large bosomed ****?



Gee, and I wonder why many women are put off by video games.

[C9316]

paperclipgirl102 wrote...





Hey guys,

 I was wondering
if there are any other females out there who are a little put off by Bio-Ware's
continuous use of a male lead in their marketing ads. In both ME and DA:O you
had the choice of being either sex. I am little put off by the fact that
they are choosing to aim the market towards the male demographic. Why not show
a female Hawke in the advertising for DA2? Look at successful marketing such as
Laura Croft, Samus, and countless others. I feel that Bio-Ware could use a
female protagonist that both males and females would love to relate to, and
watch in trailers and advertisements for the games.



Ok, I'm off my soapbox.

In my opinion it shouldn't matter who's in advertising as long as there is something advertising the game. But hopefully to quell concerns such as this Bioware should just put a dragon or somthing on the box cover again. That way no one will feel "put off".

[iTomes]

mopotter wrote...

Andrastee wrote...

As a woman, I find it annoying, but I guess I can see where they're coming from. When games do get promoted with female characters, the tone is almost invariably 'look at this sexy chick wearing next to nothing!' which I would find even more annoying. So I guess Mike Hawke is the lesser of two potential evils from the marketing department.

I also find it annoying, and yes the sexy chick with the chainmail bra that would annoy me more because it would not be aimed at potential women players it would be aimed at the same male group they are trying for now.  And they are missing a whole group of potential buyers.  Women of all ages, who like a great story and think all video games are like Halo or Street Fighter.

I don't smoke, but I think the marketing people should look at how cigarettes were marketed to women and how many took up the habit because of the marketing.  I'm not comparing the two, although my husband does say I'm addicted to video games, but I am saying that if they marketed their games showing that women do enjoy playing them, and use some of the fan base they already have to show it, since we are a diverse group of women, more would be interested in trying them which would be more profits for the company.

hmmmm i think theres a difference: woman appearently have another liking area for video games. rpgs for example have a big female touch. but you cant compare it with cigarettes or something. if -for example- DA2 would do marketing with a female figure the game wouldn't sell very much. i mean, someone who (for example) started smoking will continue smoking, but a male who walks through a shop and would see a female market DA2 box would think ohhh its like the sims or something. and a female propably still wouldn't buy it because of the blood. so, after all, much less copies are sold. and not selling many copies of an game expensive to produce is not an option.

[Jigero]

RosaAquafire wrote...

Jigero wrote...

1st of all DA:O's ads also depicted the Grey warden as a Male.

The male human noble was sort of default, yes, and BW fell back on him in most BIG ads, like the Sacred Ashes trailer. But the "default" city elf, castless dwarf, and mage were all female in their concept art and trailers. That was a fair compromise to me

Yea and? What do you think we aren't gonna see Female hawke concept art and trailers?

[paperclipgirl102]

The next part of the question is: What about the advertising done with Leliana and Morrigan? As a female, I was a little put off by Morrigan's boobies, but I got over that when it came to dialog choices and her personality. Leliana is portrayed as a kick-ass sultry woman. They could do the same for a DA2 female lead.

If a female was chosen as lead for the campaign, they could most certainly choose to not go with the "boob" aspect. The female body can be portrayed in a way that is not overtly sexual. (Hello, Kick-Ass Armor)



PS - Sorry about my typo with Lara Croft. I've been tabulating for 4+ hours now. I should get back to work

[RosaAquafire]

Jigero wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

Jigero wrote...

1st of all DA:O's ads also depicted the Grey warden as a Male.

The male human noble was sort of default, yes, and BW fell back on him in most BIG ads, like the Sacred Ashes trailer. But the "default" city elf, castless dwarf, and mage were all female in their concept art and trailers. That was a fair compromise to me

Yea and? What do you think we aren't gonna see Female hawke concept art and trailers?

If we do then I'm fine! But I'm not sure we will, BW has made some comments sort of revealing that. If we do, they'll be sort of hidden and outnumbered as hell.

[Chuvvy]

Majority of gamers are male. They're just trying to appeal to the main demographic.

Modifié par Slidell505, 22 juillet 2010 - 01:16 .

[Jigero]

Saibh wrote...

Monstruo696 wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

Jigero wrote...

1st of all DA:O's ads also depicted the Grey warden as a Male.

The male human noble was sort of default, yes, and BW fell back on him in most BIG ads, like the Sacred Ashes trailer. But the "default" city elf, castless dwarf, and mage were all female in their concept art and trailers. That was a fair compromise to me

Does it matter?

I know I'm a guy saying this, but if the game were mostly female and I had an interest in the game, I really wouldn't care so long as I can still play a guy.

Not that I'm faulting you, I'm just asking you if it really matters that much?

Mmm...it's the unfortune of the majority to be unable to understand the minority. I'm not saying that's your fault or that I'm angry at you, I'm just saying that it's very difficult to understand if your not the one being shorthanded.

The way a lot of women see it is that playing as a woman is less important, that being a female gamer means you matter less, and that game companies could  care less if you exist.

I completely understand wanting to have a "face" --DA had Morrigan, ME has John Shepard--since, in consumer's heads, it allows for quick identification and product awareness, but the PC females are rarely ever shown, or even acknowledged. It's like being the shameful secret of the company when a female PC
isn't even depicted.

From a marketing stand point you are "less important". Why spend money on advertising for the minority of people who will buy the game?  Making ads and running them costs a crap load a money. Men buy more games then women.  Can't blame a company wanting to see a return on their advertising and wanting to hit their demographic.

[Jigero]

RosaAquafire wrote...

Jigero wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

Jigero wrote...

1st of all DA:O's ads also depicted the Grey warden as a Male.

The male human noble was sort of default, yes, and BW fell back on him in most BIG ads, like the Sacred Ashes trailer. But the "default" city elf, castless dwarf, and mage were all female in their concept art and trailers. That was a fair compromise to me

Yea and? What do you think we aren't gonna see Female hawke concept art and trailers?

If we do then I'm fine! But I'm not sure we will, BW has made some comments sort of revealing that. If we do, they'll be sort of hidden and outnumbered as hell.

BW already said Hawke can be male or female and so far we only seen a hand full of concept art in general and very little of even Male Hawke and judging by the screen shots they haven't even finished male Hawke yet. So chill it's still too early to be casting stones.

[RosaAquafire]

Jigero wrote...

From a marketing stand point you are "less important". Why spend money on advertising for the minority of people who will buy the game?  Making ads and running them costs a crap load a money. Men buy more games then women.  Can't blame a company wanting to see a return on their advertising and wanting to hit their demographic.

And being considered "less important?" is no reason to get a little miffed?

Money-wise, it makes sense. Nobody is saying otherwise. Well, some might be, but whatever. But according to studies, the female/male market isn't quite as hugely unbalanced as you might think. Would it cost that much money for Bioware to, say, have two covers of the game, one with a male Hawke and one with a female? It would cost to develop and print them separately, sure, but a lot of games have alternate covers, and if they get even 30% of the female gaming market interested, it would be worth the investment.

I find it amusing how people are saying "Well, male gamers will buy a game if it has a huge bamf looking dude on the cover! That's marketting!" and in the same breath "Well, it shouldn't affect you if you're not being marketted to!"

The point is, marketting matters. For everyone.

It just sucks to not be a straight male in this case.

[Grommash94]

I still don't see how a man on a cover is catering to the 'important' male demographic. Wouldn't a pretty face do more than Hawke in that respect?

[Riona45]

RosaAquafire wrote...
Does it affect the end product game? No, it doesn't. But everything isn't about the end result, and it DOES make girls feel a little second-class to have this male fantasy beefcake who we don't find relatable OR attractive paraded around, only to be told quietly on the sidelikes "it's alright, dear, you can have your female character in the game, we're just mildly ashamed of her and can't show her off."

Yes, that's quite right.  Most men don't understand this because it's not an issue they have to deal with.  An unmarked, default person is a "man" in the minds of most people.  Same goes for the use of the word "he"--yes, it's technically true that "he" can be genderless, but most people hear "he" and immediately think "male."

[Chuvvy]

RosaAquafire wrote...

Jigero wrote...

From a marketing stand point you are "less important". Why spend money on advertising for the minority of people who will buy the game?  Making ads and running them costs a crap load a money. Men buy more games then women.  Can't blame a company wanting to see a return on their advertising and wanting to hit their demographic.

And being considered "less important?" is no reason to get a little miffed?

Money-wise, it makes sense. Nobody is saying otherwise. Well, some might be, but whatever. But according to studies, the female/male market isn't quite as hugely unbalanced as you might think. Would it cost that much money for Bioware to, say, have two covers of the game, one with a male Hawke and one with a female? It would cost to develop and print them separately, sure, but a lot of games have alternate covers, and if they get even 30% of the female gaming market interested, it would be worth the investment.

I find it amusing how people are saying "Well, male gamers will buy a game if it has a huge bamf looking dude on the cover! That's marketting!" and in the same breath "Well, it shouldn't affect you if you're not being marketted to!"

The point is, marketting matters. For everyone.

It just sucks to not be a straight male in this case.

inb4 liberal douche.

Yes lets **** up the enviroment more so that we can have two covers.

[Monstruo696]

This is silly, a game discussion board is not the best place to fight over 5000 years of male dominated culture.

While I understand what you're trying to say, it's like going to a bar and complaining that women can't participate in the NFL.  It's not going to work, trust me.

Modifié par Monstruo696, 22 juillet 2010 - 01:25 .

[Riona45]

Oh, and by the way, I've already had to correct a few people who didn't realize Hawke could be female. There is some confusion out there already.

[RosaAquafire]

Monstruo696 wrote...


This is silly, a game discussion board is not the best place to fight over 5000 years of male dominated culture.

I'm not "fighting" over it, and I only care like 25%, I just think it sucks and someone should mention that it sucks instead of going WELP CAN'T CHANGE THAT POO. So long as no one is flipping out, no harm done.


Also, re: environment, I HAVE to admit, you do have me there, fair enough I'm sure that's not their REASONING, but two covers would indeed cause more pollution so I withdraw that suggestion.