805 réponses à ce sujet

[joriandrake]

iTomes wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

Hawksblud wrote...

joriandrake wrote...
okay then ... I have no clue why my comment got such a reaction once again or what Hawksblut believes I said

Haha, I didn't mean to go off on you, man. Or at least, it was not directed specifically at you. (Maybe I shouldn't have quoted, sorry.) It was more a general reaction to where the thread was going, which was OT. 

no worries, I start to get used to being bashed for things I didn't do/mean in both RL and forums by straight/homosexual people lately :happy:

...this said, I realize now I should worry myself more about the recent growing tendency of aggression against me 

almos everyone is beating at you once, but almost nobody does twice.... thats something 

yea, maybe I am too boring to keep them interested

[Hawksblud]

joriandrake wrote...

no worries, I start to get used to being bashed for things I didn't do/mean in both RL and forums by straight/homosexual people lately

...this said, I realize now I should worry myself more about the recent growing tendency of aggression against me  

It's all done out of love. Well, maybe. 

[iTomes]

Arttis wrote...

I remember the 80s....Not existing...

pffft i wasn't even born back there....

[Clover Rider]

Arttis wrote...

I remember the 80s....Not existing...

Me too but I love the 80s .

[Saibh]

soteria wrote...

Oh, sorry! I meant, if she has a particular face she's being marketed as a female Hawke across the board, rather than seeing a random woman using a mage spell in one shot and a bow in another.

But does that mean you feel archers or dual-wield rogues (or whatever) aren't being represented properly? Some people identify very strongly with a certain class. If Bioware uses a spear-wielding male warrior and a sword and board female warrior as game icons, couldn't those people just as rightly argue that Bioware is emphasizing warriors over mages and rogues? Shouldn't they feel that those classes are going to get less attention from the design team if they aren't displayed in marketing? That's the argument I've seen here for marketing an iconic female--players might feel women aren't given sufficient/proper treatment in-game. Why shouldn't Bioware also market an iconic mage, archer, rogue, etc?

...Okay, two things:

1) I didn't say that archers/mages/whathaveyou shouldn't be, er, represented. I just said that some girls don't want just a throwaway screenshot of a random girl. That's not everyone--for some it's exactly what they want. I'm simply referring to the type of screenshot she'll be in, and I picked "girlier" classes, because that'd probably be the ones.

2) Mages aren't an underrepresented minority. No one is going to identify with them. There isn't an apostate sitting behind his computer feeling left out. That's a pretty offensive parallel you're making--it seems as if you're trying to say that it's unfair for women to want to see one female Hawke, when men want to see more iconic males representing classes.

Modifié par Saibh, 22 juillet 2010 - 04:53 .

[Wishpig]

Hawksblud wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

Hey look! Three of the most popular western gaming franchises ever! What do they have in common? Oh yeah, an masculine hero advertised on the cover.

Looks to me like the manly guy on the front sells well.
Hmmmmm

Sure, it sells well. They're all good games. But I think my main problem with your comment is the idea that (1) having some promo shots of a female hero will hurt sales, and (2) we shouldn't change marketing strategies, ever. Releasing a screenshot of femHawke or a few sketches by a concept artist will not hurt sales, nor will it hurt the game. It will not encroach upon male 'territory', nor will it affect the majority of teenage male opinions on the game.

No I don't think Promo shots (I mean screenshots, concept art, ect) would hurt sales... infact I could only see them helping. I really don't know why they wouldn't do that.

Maybe posting the female version of hawke on advertisment posters though might hurt sales. I understand the whole Shepard approach in terms of trailors, posters, ect. They want to have a face for the hero, so they make that face appeal to the majority, and keep beating people over the head with it.

[Kolos2]

female heroes dont sell as well as testosterone;

And i find it amusing that someone put Lara Croft as an example, as her hmm upper body strenght got increased in every new sequel

Modifié par Kolos2, 22 juillet 2010 - 04:55 .

[iTomes]

joriandrake wrote...

iTomes wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

Hawksblud wrote...

joriandrake wrote...
okay then ... I have no clue why my comment got such a reaction once again or what Hawksblut believes I said

Haha, I didn't mean to go off on you, man. Or at least, it was not directed specifically at you. (Maybe I shouldn't have quoted, sorry.) It was more a general reaction to where the thread was going, which was OT. 

no worries, I start to get used to being bashed for things I didn't do/mean in both RL and forums by straight/homosexual people lately :happy:

...this said, I realize now I should worry myself more about the recent growing tendency of aggression against me 

almos everyone is beating at you once, but almost nobody does twice.... thats something 

yea, maybe I am too boring to keep them interested

thats one way to look at things. the other way is that youre sometimes making comments one easily can understand wrong and then get the whole hostility. i mean, if theres an unbelievable hostile battle about homosexuality and then you make the... comment you made you gotta expect that something terrible is going to happen even if youre comment had no hostile purpose.^^

[joriandrake]

I was born in 83, but I played the oldest games first when I got my first PC, like Goblins and Larry 1-2 and lots of adventure games, I also love to play chess and was always easier to talk to older people than my own generation

anyway, my experience with old games allows me to say "good ol' days" despite my young age


EDIT: gosh people you type too fast

Modifié par joriandrake, 22 juillet 2010 - 04:55 .

[Arttis]

Umm...you guys had morrigan on the cover of DA:O...

This time...it may be flemeth...you know for the old ones...I say Old ones....for they are old.

[PriscilaSSR]

David Gaider wrote...
That depends. As I understand it, part of the point of branding is providing images that the viewer can immediately associate with the brand. You dilute the image, do you gain anything for it in return? I don't really know. Perhaps if you made a femHawke that was also recognizeable as part of the brand? I'm not a marketing person-- but I will say that you've seen all of, what? A few images of Hawke so far? I think it's a bit early to declare our intentions as set in stone.

But as I said, by all means, ask for what you'd like to see.

I work with marketing. I understand the need for brand image and identity. But... Why an iconic character is needed for that? Why not focus on the Bioware brand or the franchise itself (like in the first game). A dragon could even be cooler than Hawke.

Of course I have a guess already: the target. Simple as that, you guys probably want the Halo/Gears of Wars/God of War type of gamer. Shooters and action titles have a bigger audience and all that and the best way to grab their attention is simplify things (not "dumb", just simple). Nothing wrong with that.

Still, is sad that men can't look outside themselves and identify with anything but their reflection.

(Sorry for any English mistakes...)

[joriandrake]

Kolos2 wrote...

female heroes dont sell as well as testosterone;

And i find it amusing that someone put Lara Croft as an example, as her hmm upper body strenght got increased in every new sequel

if you mean boobs, say boobs

[Addai]

Kolos2 wrote...

And i find it amusing that someone put Lara Croft as an example, as her hmm upper body strenght got increased every new sequel

Is that what they call tatas in the gaming world? 

I do think it would help to sell women if they showed the male LI in promotional stuff.  Need I ask the question again, where the hell was Alistair in the Sacred Ashes trailer??

[Clover Rider]

joriandrake wrote...

I was born in 83, but I played the oldest games first when I got my first PC, like Goblins and Larry 1-2 and lots of adventure games, I also love to play chess and was always easier to talk to older people than my own generation

anyway, my experience with old games allows me to say "good ol' days" despite my young age


EDIT: gosh people you type too fast

1993 here but I have a love of movies/books/comics/shows/games all the way back to the 40s 

Modifié par Some Geth, 22 juillet 2010 - 05:00 .

[joriandrake]

Addai67 wrote...

Kolos2 wrote...

And i find it amusing that someone put Lara Croft as an example, as her hmm upper body strenght got increased every new sequel

Is that what they call tatas in the gaming world? 

I do think it would help to sell women if they showed the male LI in promotional stuff.  Need I ask the question again, where the hell was Alistair in the Sacred Ashes trailer??

he fell of the cliff

[Saibh]

Kolos2 wrote...

female heroes dont sell as well as testosterone;

And i find it amusing that someone put Lara Croft as an example, as her hmm upper body strenght got increased in every new sequel

To put this in perspective, only Mass Effect has a man as a more obvious face than the woman. Baldur's Gate and NWN don't even have people on them.

Modifié par Saibh, 22 juillet 2010 - 05:18 .

[Wishpig]

PriscilaSSR wrote...
Still, is sad that men can't look outside themselves and identify with anything but their reflection.

Really???

Saibh wrote...

Kolos2 wrote...

female
heroes dont sell as well as testosterone;

And i find it amusing
that someone put Lara Croft as an example, as her hmm upper body
strenght got increased in every new sequel

To put this in
perspective, only Mass Effect has a man as a more obvious face than the
woman. Baldur's Gate and NWN don't even have people on them.

Mass Effect also out sold them all by a longshot... I think... don't quote me on that one.

Modifié par Wishpig, 22 juillet 2010 - 05:02 .

[Rogue Unit]

Wishpig wrote...

PriscilaSSR wrote...
Still, is sad that men can't look outside themselves and identify with anything but their reflection.

Really???

Really???

[joriandrake]

Wishpig wrote...

PriscilaSSR wrote...
Still, is sad that men can't look outside themselves and identify with anything but their reflection.

Really???

I believe the opposite is more true , if you mean picking gender in a game

[joriandrake]

Some Geth wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

I was born in 83, but I played the oldest games first when I got my first PC, like Goblins and Larry 1-2 and lots of adventure games, I also love to play chess and was always easier to talk to older people than my own generation

anyway, my experience with old games allows me to say "good ol' days" despite my young age


EDIT: gosh people you type too fast

1993 here but I have a love of movies/books/comics/shows/games all the way back to the 40s 

you make me feel old ... dat not good

[Hawksblud]

Saibh wrote...
2) Mages aren't an underrepresented minority. No one is going to identify with them. There isn't an apostate sitting behind his computer feeling left out.

This. This, so hard.

PriscilaSSR wrote...
Still, is sad that men can't look outside themselves and identify with anything but their reflection.

Yes. It's also sad that women are expected to always be able to identify with a male lead, whereas men shy away from having to identify with a female lead. In the RPG genre, we (supposedly) are focused on characterization, on stepping into a character who is not us. None of us are Ferelden Wardens, for example. Why the difficulty going one step farther? Again, I'll reiterate: why is it stranger to be a dominant woman than to cast spells that light your enemies on fire?

[Ulicus]

EA/BioWare really don't need to cater their marketing so much to the female gamers of their existing fanbase. Nor do they need to cater the marketing to any gamer who is familiar with what a BioWare game entails, beyond "this is better than last time, so even if you weren't keen on the last one, check it out!"

What you think they would want to do is encourage as many people to buy their game as possible. And thus, y'know, try to reach out to those potential first timers that exist outside the "THIS IS SPARTA" crowd. It's a situation where you can really have your cake AND eat it... and it baffles me why they don't.

I mean, ME2's packaging made NO MENTION whatsoever of the fact that Commander Shepard didn't have to be the dude on the box. Not one. How is that not shooting themselves in the foot? Fable II might have stuck a bloke on the front, but at least the blurb explicitly stated "MAN OR WOMAN, GOOD OR EVIL, BLAH BLAH"!"

[iTomes]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Wishpig wrote...

PriscilaSSR wrote...
Still, is sad that men can't look outside themselves and identify with anything but their reflection.

Really???

Really???

hey come on thats just bull****! im a man and i play mostly female characters who are as far away from my true person as possible.

[Hawksblud]

Wishpig wrote...

Mass Effect also out sold them all by a longshot... I think... don't quote me on that one.

I don't think any of us can reasonably conclude that it's a result of the cover art. Especially as the genre is widely different, as a shooter versus swords-and-sorcery type. 

[joriandrake]

Hawksblud wrote...

Saibh wrote...
2) Mages aren't an underrepresented minority. No one is going to identify with them. There isn't an apostate sitting behind his computer feeling left out.

This. This, so hard.

PriscilaSSR wrote...
Still, is sad that men can't look outside themselves and identify with anything but their reflection.

Yes. It's also sad that women are expected to always be able to identify with a male lead, whereas men shy away from having to identify with a female lead. In the RPG genre, we (supposedly) are focused on characterization, on stepping into a character who is not us. None of us are Ferelden Wardens, for example. Why the difficulty going one step farther? Again, I'll reiterate: why is it stranger to be a dominant woman than to cast spells that light your enemies on fire?

One of the best RPG-s I ever played was Septerra Core with a girl as main character