805 réponses à ce sujet

[C9316]

Lyssistr wrote...

C9316 wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

II Relics II wrote...

So women are mad that Bioware isn't using some beautiful scantily clad female Hawke to get people interested in their game??

Are you serious?

I'm afraid they are . However, as long as it suits my agenda of world domination sporting Megan Fawkes on DA2's front cover, I'm with em.

Check out that armor +999 stats!

Man you made my day . Put Megan on the front cover, else it's a boycott 

Yes I can live with this. Now I know men and women can have differences in opinions but surely we can all band together under a common banner for our DA2 box art right; and that banner will be Megan Fawkes.

[Saibh]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Eleinehmm wrote...

term8 wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

Jigero wrote...

I can easily see many of unassuming males not even bothering looking at the box because of "oh looks like a girl game" .

I'm not entirely sure how anyone is going to look at a woman clad in full armour standing in front of a dragon drawn with dripping blood and think it's a girl's game, but maybe I'm underestimating market idiocy.

Also I find it fascinating that you're telling me to get involved and then telling me to stop bringing the issue to attention.

The female/male ratio is closer to 35:75 than the 5:95 people assume. We're a minority market, yes. But we're a market.

This is a very old post, and by all rights i shouldn't even be posting on this so late..... but:

Your logic is flawed.. i agree with most of your posts, but the bold statement above is absurd. You expect males to do exactly what you are not doing... by your logic this entire argument is based on "market idiocy" on the part of women, who think; "oh a male covered in blood on the cover, must be a guy's game"

I don't disagree that female gamers are underrepresented; however, i don't like when feminism turns into a power struggle for top-dog. equality should be its only goal.

As far as I understand it , we would like to have Female Hawke as well as the Male one, not instead of the Male one.

I dont think it goes as far as that.  Some females just want sceenshots and dont want her hidden until 3 days before release.

/nodnod

Yes, exactly. I mean, it'd be great to see femHawke and maleHawke presented with each other, but it'd be unreasonable to expect something like that. Most of us just don't want to be completely ignored.

[term8]

Eleinehmm wrote...

term8 wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

Jigero wrote...

I can easily see many of unassuming males not even bothering looking at the box because of "oh looks like a girl game" .

I'm not entirely sure how anyone is going to look at a woman clad in full armour standing in front of a dragon drawn with dripping blood and think it's a girl's game, but maybe I'm underestimating market idiocy.

Also I find it fascinating that you're telling me to get involved and then telling me to stop bringing the issue to attention.

The female/male ratio is closer to 35:75 than the 5:95 people assume. We're a minority market, yes. But we're a market.

This is a very old post, and by all rights i shouldn't even be posting on this so late..... but:

Your logic is flawed.. i agree with most of your posts, but the bold statement above is absurd. You expect males to do exactly what you are not doing... by your logic this entire argument is based on "market idiocy" on the part of women, who think; "oh a male covered in blood on the cover, must be a guy's game"

I don't disagree that female gamers are underrepresented; however, i don't like when feminism turns into a power struggle for top-dog. equality should be its only goal.

As far as I understand it , we would like to have Female Hawke as well as the Male one, not instead of the Male one.

I know, i was just comenting on that particular sentence, because it was totally unfair to call males in the market idiots for not wanting to buy a game with a girl on the cover

[Lyssistr]

joriandrake wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

I like the girl who played in the Legend of the Seeker more

Megan is invincible!

"Megan, She is Goddess; there is no other besides Her." 

[Grommash94]

Just to add my two cents to the discussion, I don't see what the problem would be with releasing a few screenshots/concept art with FemHawke. Maybe even put her on the cover alongside the Male Hawke. Don't see how its a big deal if they do at least that.



*puts on flame resistant suit just in case*.

[Riona45]

iTomes wrote...

and on almost the same effort of being snapy you just couldve explained him...

Almost the same effort?  No, I disagree.  If you don't care enough to read some of the first posts at least, I don't see why other people should care enough to repeat themselves to every person who comes in here and asks the same question.

[Lyssistr]

C9316 wrote...

Yes I can live with this. Now I know men and women can have differences in opinions but surely we can all band together under a common banner for our DA2 box art right; and that banner will be Megan Fawkes.

I see this Megan Fawkes movement rising and uniting people. There is momentum here, devs please listen to your fans .

[Clover Rider]

Lyssistr wrote...

C9316 wrote...

Yes I can live with this. Now I know men and women can have differences in opinions but surely we can all band together under a common banner for our DA2 box art right; and that banner will be Megan Fawkes.

I see this Megan Fawkes movement rising and uniting people. There is momentum here, devs please listen to your fans .

I think she is not hot .

[Eleinehmm]

Lyssistr wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

I like the girl who played in the Legend of the Seeker more

Megan is invincible!

"Megan, She is Goddess; there is no other besides Her." 

BTW  - I have absolutely no idea who she is:?

[Arttis]

Riona45 wrote...

iTomes wrote...

and on almost the same effort of being snapy you just couldve explained him...

Almost the same effort?  No, I disagree.  If you don't care enough to read some of the first posts at least, I don't see why other people should care enough to repeat themselves to every person who comes in here and asks the same question.

SO whats the point in staying here if you said what you wanted to say and have argued with the people who bothered to read.Is there a point to this?

[Saibh]

Some Geth wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

C9316 wrote...

Yes I can live with this. Now I know men and women can have differences in opinions but surely we can all band together under a common banner for our DA2 box art right; and that banner will be Megan Fawkes.

I see this Megan Fawkes movement rising and uniting people. There is momentum here, devs please listen to your fans .

I think she is not hot .

I'd die a little inside if she became the face of femHawke.

[iTomes]

Riona45 wrote...

iTomes wrote...

and on almost the same effort of being snapy you just couldve explained him...

Almost the same effort?  No, I disagree.  If you don't care enough to read some of the first posts at least, I don't see why other people should care enough to repeat themselves to every person who comes in here and asks the same question.

yes but if youre already making yourself the effort to answer the post, you could do what arttis did for example:

"They want some Females being advertised as well as males.
Devs came by trying to help them understand.It was a no go.
Now we sit here with 2-3 groups with opposing opinions and no one will give in.
Thus more arguing."

bam problem solved, less hostility on this forum and everyones happy 

[Clover Rider]

Eleinehmm wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

I like the girl who played in the Legend of the Seeker more

Megan is invincible!

"Megan, She is Goddess; there is no other besides Her." 

BTW  - I have absolutely no idea who she is:?

A girl from a show from a book about BDSM .

[Riona45]

Eleinehmm wrote...

BTW  - I have absolutely no idea who she is:?

She's an actress who, I believe, became popular thanks to her roles in the recent Transformers movies.  Regarded by many as very beautiful, although her image has a bit of a "bad girl" vibe to it too.

[Saibh]

Arttis wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

iTomes wrote...

and on almost the same effort of being snapy you just couldve explained him...

Almost the same effort?  No, I disagree.  If you don't care enough to read some of the first posts at least, I don't see why other people should care enough to repeat themselves to every person who comes in here and asks the same question.

SO whats the point in staying here if you said what you wanted to say and have argued with the people who bothered to read.Is there a point to this?

The point? There's never any change without resistance. Being unable to convince someone can be a little disheartening, but it's worth it to have your voice heard.

I have no idea if this thread has helped guys gain a better understand of our side--or if it's helped some girls gain a better perspective.

Modifié par Saibh, 22 juillet 2010 - 06:06 .

[Lyssistr]

Some Geth wrote...
I think she is not hot .

I'd argue Megan is the definition of Hawtness!

[Blood Mage Abomination]

Well, in Dragon Age, plenty of women fought.  In reality, men are physically stronger than women are, and would be much more proficient at Medieval-based combat (wearing suits of armor, wielding battle axes, etc).  This fact is ignored, but you're still complaining?  The use of bows and crossbows would be exceptions though - women might be better at that.  Bioware went out of it's way to be more feminist.  Heck, the human noble Warden's grey-haired aging mother helped her son/daugher fight off a small army of able-bodied young men in the beginning of the game.  Middle-aged rich women wielding swords and hacking up well-trained military men is really going out of the way to appeal to women.  In reality, women seemed to be more attuned to the supernatural, so female characters should have started off with extra magic points, while male characters should have started off with more strength points.  The maximum strength and magic points possible should have been different for men and women as well.

As for the racial comments, Duncan and lots of the other humans (and elves and dwarves) looked Middle-Eastern.  The mage that helped the Dalish elf Warden in the beginning (Merrill?) looked almost Indian.  In a Medieval European setting, there would be very few blacks.  But, if you want to, you can still make your character look relatively black.  Would it be realistic to have a game set in Africa with blue-eyed-blonde Zulu warriors?

[Riona45]

iTomes wrote...

yes but if youre already making yourself the effort to answer the post, you could do what arttis did for example:

LOL!  Bad move, trying to hold that thing up as a good example to me. 

I am honestly amused by that.

Modifié par Riona45, 22 juillet 2010 - 06:07 .

[Clover Rider]

Lyssistr wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
I think she is not hot .

I'd argue Megan is the definition of Hawtness!

I like women to look like women.

[Arttis]

+1 arttis

- 1 Riona

Arttis wins

WAHAHAHA.

Also I mean the point of continuing.

You all said it all already all thats left is to recycle the arguements.

[Saibh]

Blood Mage Abomination wrote...

Well, in Dragon Age, plenty of women fought.  In reality, men are physically stronger than women are, and would be much more proficient at Medieval-based combat (wearing suits of armor, wielding battle axes, etc).  This fact is ignored, but you're still complaining?  The use of bows and crossbows would be exceptions though - women might be better at that.  Bioware went out of it's way to be more feminist.  Heck, the human noble Warden's grey-haired aging mother helped her son/daugher fight off a small army of able-bodied young men in the beginning of the game.  Middle-aged rich women wielding swords and hacking up well-trained military men is really going out of the way to appeal to women.  In reality, women seemed to be more attuned to the supernatural, so female characters should have started off with extra magic points, while male characters should have started off with more strength points.  The maximum strength and magic points possible should have been different for men and women as well.

As for the racial comments, Duncan and lots of the other humans (and elves and dwarves) looked Middle-Eastern.  The mage that helped the Dalish elf Warden in the beginning (Merrill?) looked almost Indian.  In a Medieval European setting, there would be very few blacks.  But, if you want to, you can still make your character look relatively black.  Would it be realistic to have a game set in Africa with blue-eyed-blonde Zulu warriors?

You are utterly misunderstanding this entire thread. I'll ask you to read some of the more well-thought out points of each side first (or even the original post...hell, the title) before commenting further.

Modifié par Saibh, 22 juillet 2010 - 06:08 .

[iTomes]

Grommash94 wrote...

Just to add my two cents to the discussion, I don't see what the problem would be with releasing a few screenshots/concept art with FemHawke. Maybe even put her on the cover alongside the Male Hawke. Don't see how its a big deal if they do at least that.

*puts on flame resistant suit just in case*.

never said different. i think the reason for hostility here is that many woman here feel attacked by nothing at all (and some of the guys, too, to be honest). heck i was attacked because i said that an organisation whose only aim it would be to reach aims for only one sex is sexistic...

[soteria]

Alright, I apologize for putting words into your mouth--you didn't actually say you'd rather see a male archer or anything, but what you did was to compare there being a lack of iconic archers with there not being a femHawke. I already made my point on why it's so completely different. " Why shouldn't Bioware also market an iconic mage, archer, rogue, etc?"

That's a pretty demeaning question, for reasons already stated.

"Why is the male dominance assumed?"

Dude, the developers openly acknowledge male dominance. Word to the wise, if you want your arguments to seem more reasonable, don't start by denying the problem.

Who's denying the problem? I asked why you're contributing to it by perpetuating the perception that men are first in video games. Despite the fact that I deliberately mentioned possible icons for classes that are typically gender-neutral (like mage), you interpreted that as iconic male characters. I believe you and others have quoted 40% as the percentage of female gamers, arguing that male gamers aren't that dominant. If that's the case, then the only major problem left is perception--and you're contributing to that problem by making assumptions like what you just did.

I don't think "Why shouldn't Bioware also market an iconic mage, archer, rogue, etc?" is a demeaning question unless you assume that either Bioware or the people who like to play female characters are stupid. Every previous Bioware game has allowed a male or female protagonist, and IMO they've done them justice. The implication that what they don't market won't get as much in-game attention is flimsy, and that's the point I'm trying to highlight. The answer to my (rhetorical) question is that what is marketed does not reflect what is in the game. Just look at the Marilyn Mansen marketing from DA:O.

It is actually a male name. If you were to name your daughter "Hawke", people would look at you funny...well, funnier than naming your son "Hawke", that is. "Amell" isn't a name that sounds masculine or feminine--but any "cool" sounding name tends to range on masculinity. I wouldn't change Hawke's name, don't get me wrong, and I don't see anything bad with it--but I'd just like you to see the other points.

Well, Hawke is typically a surname, isn't it? In any event, it would be an odd first name. Verner is masculine because of the etymology of the word, and, with the exception of English, almost every language has masculine and feminine words (and sometimes neuter). Inasmuch as it is used as a surname, it is gender-neutral, which is my point. The website you linked was for first names. By the way, "Hawke" is not included in their database as a first name. As for a lack of cool-sounding female names, I think "Soteria" fits the bill, but I might be biased.

[Eleinehmm]

Lyssistr wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
I think she is not hot .

I'd argue Megan is the definition of Hawtness!

Not my type -

[Saibh]

iTomes wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

Just to add my two cents to the discussion, I don't see what the problem would be with releasing a few screenshots/concept art with FemHawke. Maybe even put her on the cover alongside the Male Hawke. Don't see how its a big deal if they do at least that.

*puts on flame resistant suit just in case*.

never said different. i think the reason for hostility here is that many woman here feel attacked by nothing at all (and some of the guys, too, to be honest). heck i was attacked because i said that an organisation whose only aim it would be to reach aims for only one sex is sexistic...

No, you were attacked for claiming all feminists are sexist.