805 réponses à ce sujet

[Ahisgewaya]

paperclipgirl102 wrote...





Hey guys,

 I was wondering
if there are any other females out there who are a little put off by Bio-Ware's
continuous use of a male lead in their marketing ads. In both ME and DA:O you
had the choice of being either sex. I am little put off by the fact that
they are choosing to aim the market towards the male demographic. Why not show
a female Hawke in the advertising for DA2? Look at successful marketing such as
Laura Croft, Samus, and countless others. I feel that Bio-Ware could use a
female protagonist that both males and females would love to relate to, and
watch in trailers and advertisements for the games.



Ok, I'm off my soapbox.

Lol, not only is it a male, it's always a white male. 

At least you can play a female in DA:O. You can't be black, you can only be "swarthy".

[Riona45]

Monstruo696 wrote...

While I understand what you're trying to say, it's like going to a bar and complaining that women can't participate in the NFL.

How so?

[SirOccam]

Slidell505 wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

Jigero wrote...

From a marketing stand point you are "less important". Why spend money on advertising for the minority of people who will buy the game?  Making ads and running them costs a crap load a money. Men buy more games then women.  Can't blame a company wanting to see a return on their advertising and wanting to hit their demographic.

And being considered "less important?" is no reason to get a little miffed?

Money-wise, it makes sense. Nobody is saying otherwise. Well, some might be, but whatever. But according to studies, the female/male market isn't quite as hugely unbalanced as you might think. Would it cost that much money for Bioware to, say, have two covers of the game, one with a male Hawke and one with a female? It would cost to develop and print them separately, sure, but a lot of games have alternate covers, and if they get even 30% of the female gaming market interested, it would be worth the investment.

I find it amusing how people are saying "Well, male gamers will buy a game if it has a huge bamf looking dude on the cover! That's marketting!" and in the same breath "Well, it shouldn't affect you if you're not being marketted to!"

The point is, marketting matters. For everyone.

It just sucks to not be a straight male in this case.

inb4 liberal douche.

Yes lets **** up the enviroment more so that we can have two covers.

How would the evironment be affected if they had two covers? I didn't see anyone suggesting they print twice as many copies of the game. Unless one cover uses an excessive amount of ink or something, they're probably roughly about the same environmental impact, so printing half of them one way and half another shouldn't matter.

[krinst]

Hawke and Shepard are also default white people.. where are complaints about that?



Additionally, many on the forums encourage the feeling of male-as-default through the use of modifiers like "femshep" or "ladyhawke". What of manshep? Mascuhawke?

[C9316]

RosaAquafire wrote...

Jigero wrote...

From a marketing stand point you are "less important". Why spend money on advertising for the minority of people who will buy the game?  Making ads and running them costs a crap load a money. Men buy more games then women.  Can't blame a company wanting to see a return on their advertising and wanting to hit their demographic.

And being considered "less important?" is no reason to get a little miffed?

Money-wise, it makes sense. Nobody is saying otherwise. Well, some might be, but whatever. But according to studies, the female/male market isn't quite as hugely unbalanced as you might think. Would it cost that much money for Bioware to, say, have two covers of the game, one with a male Hawke and one with a female? It would cost to develop and print them separately, sure, but a lot of games have alternate covers, and if they get even 30% of the female gaming market interested, it would be worth the investment.

I find it amusing how people are saying "Well, male gamers will buy a game if it has a huge bamf looking dude on the cover! That's marketting!" and in the same breath "Well, it shouldn't affect you if you're not being marketted to!"

The point is, marketting matters. For everyone.

It just sucks to not be a straight male in this case.

Why not just have a dragon on the cover like they did with DAO? Bioware would be able to save money and no one should feel alienated by it.

[Riona45]

RosaAquafire wrote...


Also, re: environment, I HAVE to admit, you do have me there, fair enough

No, he doesn't.  It's grasping at straws.

[Saibh]

Can I just point out to all those going "it wouldn't make sense to have a female blatantly being advertised for the game!", that KotOR and DA have a woman predominant as their main face? 

Again, not saying they should change their marketing strategy, I'm just saying that it's not like it's never worked, and you're wrong to think that it hasn't.

Monstruo696 wrote...

This is silly, a game discussion board is not the best place to fight over 5000 years of male dominated culture.

While I understand what you're trying to say, it's like going to a bar and complaining that women can't participate in the NFL.  It's not going to work, trust me.

Remember, by sounding less sexist people will take your opinions more seriously. That very sexist comment--regardless of how much common sense it may or may not have--makes it easy to automatically write you off as a nitwit.

[Riona45]

elebamf wrote...
Additionally, many on the forums encourage the feeling of male-as-default through the use of modifiers like "femshep" or "ladyhawke". What of manshep? Mascuhawke?

I think you have it backwards.  Those terms came about BECAUSE of the male-as-default concept.

[Ahisgewaya]

elebamf wrote...

Hawke and Shepard are also default white people.. where are complaints about that?

Uh....look three posts up from yours.

[Monstruo696]

Riona45 wrote...

Monstruo696 wrote...

While I understand what you're trying to say, it's like going to a bar and complaining that women can't participate in the NFL.

How so?

You get told to shut your mouth and get kicked out if you don't.  But that would happen if you went into a bar to do anything out of the usual, which is usually drink, watch the game, and talk rather loudly about said game.

Modifié par Monstruo696, 22 juillet 2010 - 01:35 .

[Ahisgewaya]

C9316 wrote...

Why not just have a dragon on the cover like they did with DAO? Bioware would be able to save money and no one should feel alienated by it.

Not only that it looked awesome too.

[Saibh]

elebamf wrote...

Hawke and Shepard are also default white people.. where are complaints about that?

Complaints are raised by the minority offended, generally, since they have the most reason to be offended. Besides that, women are a larger minority--and for every non-white man not being represented in marketing, there's a non-white woman being doubly shorthanded.

Additionally, many on the forums encourage the feeling of male-as-default through the use of modifiers like "femshep" or "ladyhawke". What of manshep? Mascuhawke?

For the very same reason this post exists--because male-as-default is treated so much as default it leaves women feeling like they're less a part of the experience and the game: they come second-hand to the men.

Again, I'm not saying that things need a big overhaul, just that a little more representation would be nice.

Modifié par Saibh, 22 juillet 2010 - 01:37 .

[C9316]

Ahisgewaya wrote...

elebamf wrote...

Hawke and Shepard are also default white people.. where are complaints about that?

Uh....look three posts up from yours.

Oh no please don't bring THIS debate in here. We don't want this thread locked.(I'm also black)

[Riona45]

Monstruo696 wrote...
You get told to shut your mouth and get kicked out if you don't.  But that would happen if you went into a bar to do anything out of the usual, which is usually drink, watch the game, and talk rather loudly about said game.

I don't even get what you're trying to say here. 

[Jigero]

RosaAquafire wrote...

Jigero wrote...

From a marketing stand point you are "less important". Why spend money on advertising for the minority of people who will buy the game?  Making ads and running them costs a crap load a money. Men buy more games then women.  Can't blame a company wanting to see a return on their advertising and wanting to hit their demographic.

And being considered "less important?" is no reason to get a little miffed?

Money-wise, it makes sense. Nobody is saying otherwise. Well, some might be, but whatever. But according to studies, the female/male market isn't quite as hugely unbalanced as you might think. Would it cost that much money for Bioware to, say, have two covers of the game, one with a male Hawke and one with a female? It would cost to develop and print them separately, sure, but a lot of games have alternate covers, and if they get even 30% of the female gaming market interested, it would be worth the investment.

I find it amusing how people are saying "Well, male gamers will buy a game if it has a huge bamf looking dude on the cover! That's marketting!" and in the same breath "Well, it shouldn't affect you if you're not being marketted to!"

The point is, marketting matters. For everyone.

It just sucks to not be a straight male in this case.

What do you want me to tell you? Your talking about a industry where few women purchase products from and even less work in said industry and even less still have any kind of influence in said industry.

If you want more represantation females need to buy more games and get more involved. Your a niche market. And that second box art might detract as much as it attracts. I can easily see many of unassuming males not even bothering looking at the box because of "oh looks like a girl game" .

[Monstruo696]

Riona45 wrote...

Monstruo696 wrote...
You get told to shut your mouth and get kicked out if you don't.  But that would happen if you went into a bar to do anything out of the usual, which is usually drink, watch the game, and talk rather loudly about said game.

I don't even get what you're trying to say here. 

Then you are rather dense or playing at something.

[Riona45]

Jigero wrote...
What do you want me to tell you?

Why say anything?  Just listening to what people unlike yourself have to say can be a good thing.

[Riona45]

Monstruo696 wrote...


Then you are rather dense or playing at something.

Defensive, are we?  It's fine, I don't care that much.

[Monstruo696]

Riona45 wrote...

Jigero wrote...
What do you want me to tell you?

Why say anything?  Just listening to what people unlike yourself have to say can be a good thing.

True, but in this case you've yet to say anything which either helps your case or helps me understand what the big deal behind a gaming icon is.

[Saibh]

Jigero wrote...

RosaAquafire wrote...

Jigero wrote...

From a marketing stand point you are "less important". Why spend money on advertising for the minority of people who will buy the game?  Making ads and running them costs a crap load a money. Men buy more games then women.  Can't blame a company wanting to see a return on their advertising and wanting to hit their demographic.

And being considered "less important?" is no reason to get a little miffed?

Money-wise, it makes sense. Nobody is saying otherwise. Well, some might be, but whatever. But according to studies, the female/male market isn't quite as hugely unbalanced as you might think. Would it cost that much money for Bioware to, say, have two covers of the game, one with a male Hawke and one with a female? It would cost to develop and print them separately, sure, but a lot of games have alternate covers, and if they get even 30% of the female gaming market interested, it would be worth the investment.

I find it amusing how people are saying "Well, male gamers will buy a game if it has a huge bamf looking dude on the cover! That's marketting!" and in the same breath "Well, it shouldn't affect you if you're not being marketted to!"

The point is, marketting matters. For everyone.

It just sucks to not be a straight male in this case.

What do you want me to tell you? Your talking about a industry where few women purchase products from and even less work in said industry and even less still have any kind of influence in said industry.

If you want more represantation females need to buy more games and get more involved. Your a niche market. And that second box art might detract as much as it attracts. I can easily see many of unassuming males not even bothering looking at the box because of "oh looks like a girl game" .

Once. Again. Women comprise, according to studies, 40% of the gaming demographic. That's a very large percentage.

And, again, other BioWare games have featured a woman as a more prominent face in marketing and box art than the default man. Yet no one glances at it and says "it's a girl game".

Modifié par Saibh, 22 juillet 2010 - 01:42 .

[RosaAquafire]

Jigero wrote...

I can easily see many of unassuming males not even bothering looking at the box because of "oh looks like a girl game" .

I'm not entirely sure how anyone is going to look at a woman clad in full armour standing in front of a dragon drawn with dripping blood and think it's a girl's game, but maybe I'm underestimating market idiocy.

Also I find it fascinating that you're telling me to get involved and then telling me to stop bringing the issue to attention.

The female/male ratio is closer to 35:75 than the 5:95 people assume. We're a minority market, yes. But we're a market.

[Monstruo696]

Riona45 wrote...


Defensive, are we?  It's fine, I don't care that much.

Saibh wrote...

Once. Again. Women comprise, according to studies, 40% of the gaming demographic. That's a very large percentage. 

And, again, other BioWare games have featured a woman as a more prominent face in marketing and box art than the default man. Yet no one glances at it and says "it's a girl game".

And what genre does that mostly fall into?

Modifié par Monstruo696, 22 juillet 2010 - 01:43 .

[Ahisgewaya]

Saibh wrote...
Complaints are raised by the minority offended, generally, since they have the most reason to be offended. Besides that, women are a larger minority--and for every non-white man not being represented in marketing, there's a non-white woman being doubly shorthanded.

And yet women EXIST in the game. Whereas non caucasians do not (other than arguably the chasind).

[Riona45]

Monstruo696 wrote...


True, but in this case you've yet to say anything which either helps your case or helps me understand what the big deal behind a gaming icon is.

Wow, you're really pissed at me aren't you?  It's OK, the other female posters are making good points too.