805 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirigon]

Saibh wrote...


And that's why you're sexist, my friend. Because why should women gather under one banner, have a cause, have a group to help support the effort for equal rights? I mean, it's just so offensive to the menfolk! It'd be better if we could have a name for sexists besides "sexists", and call any woman who plead for a cause a derogatory name that makes them ashamed to admit they belong to said group. Thus solidfying the problem when the "rational" members don't want to be associated with the crazier members for fear of ridicule, and leading you to only see those angry, vocal members.

People like you are a major source of this misunderstanding.

If the women weren´t sexists they could fight for equality for everyone, not just for women. And they shouldn´t be female-only clubs either but have men and women in the group.

If a female-only club fights for equality that´s like a swingerclub fighting for virginity........



Edit: I just understood your post and have to recognize that you misunderstood me. I don´t want to call all women who are in favour of equality sexists, I want to call them "normal rational people" because only idiots and islamists (that is, extreme, violent idiots) are opposed to equality.
Sadly, most feminists are, in fact, against equality but for superiority. That makes them i - no, no insults, you figure yourself, all right?

Modifié par Tirigon, 22 juillet 2010 - 06:39 .

[Clover Rider]

Arrtis wrote...

Jalem001 wrote...

Who the hell cares? How did this get 29 pages?

People arguing and trolls mostly.

What am I?

[iTomes]

Saibh wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Saibh wrote...

That is because they are the loudest. They are the angriest, the most self-absorbed, the most conceited. They are not the majority. Any woman here or elsewhere asking for equal rights is a feminist. Any man asking for equal rights for woman is a feminist. That is the truth. You have your own idea about what the word means. That doesn't mean it's the correct one. Calling "feminists" anything else is just another way to demean equal opportunity.

What about "normal, rational people" as a new name then?

Feminist should officially be a name for female sexists and we would have much less trouble.

And that's why you're sexist, my friend. Because why should women gather under one banner, have a cause, have a group to help support the effort for equal rights? I mean, it's just so offensive to the menfolk! It'd be better if we could have a name for sexists besides "sexists", and call any woman who plead for a cause a derogatory name that makes them ashamed to admit they belong to said group. Thus solidfying the problem when the "rational" members don't want to be associated with the crazier members for fear of ridicule, and leading you to only see those angry, vocal members.

People like you are a major source of this misunderstanding.

okay, so woman who call themselves feminists know that they got some/many sexists in theyre rows and are doing close to nothing to change the public opinion but then are calling those who only see the sexist side of feminism sexists. nice. besides, a few pages earlier a definition of feministic organisations was posted (it was included into a definition of feminism in common) that simply WAS sexistic. i saw no woman disagreeing with that definition...

Modifié par iTomes, 22 juillet 2010 - 06:38 .

[Arrtis]

Some Geth wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

Jalem001 wrote...

Who the hell cares? How did this get 29 pages?

People arguing and trolls mostly.

What am I?

Oh I am sorry...and some geth apparently too.

[joriandrake]

Some Geth wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

Jalem001 wrote...

Who the hell cares? How did this get 29 pages?

People arguing and trolls mostly.

What am I?

people mostly, or arguing troll

[C9316]

 How did this thread get to talking about feminism anyway? What does this have to do about a video game? Honestly this thread will problaby be locked due to the flame wars this thread has spawned; you all want to talk about feminism go make an off topic thread.

[Lyssistr]

 I still feel compelled to promote another song www.youtube.com/watch

[joriandrake]

Some Geth wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

*looks at the inevitable doom of the thread*



I'm gonna sing the doom song now!


www.youtube.com/watch

A good song that is .

I was unable to find the Deekin version

[Hawksblud]

Wow, I step out for an hour and comeback to find three pages. 

Tirigon wrote...
Feminism seems outdated to me.

Okay, how best to put this without offending anyone. The ability to see feminism as outdated is a privilege, one that comes of never having been treated as an inferior due to your sex. (Both men and women can have this privilege, though obviously it is more common to men.) It is easy to stand in a position of relative privilege and scorn those who do not have that privilege because, well, you've never seen women treated as inferior and you've never treated a woman differently than a man, so sexual discrimination must not be widespread in the Western world. 

This is a fallacy. And it results from a certain innocence, I believe, which we cannot fault you for... but simply try to educate you.

However, the reason people in this thread are getting angry is because some of us have dealt with sexism, at differing levels of severity, throughout most of our lives. And it hurts to see you disregard our experiences and our voices, because guess what? That's generally how it begins. (I am reminded of the Mass Effect council... "Ah, yes, 'sexism'.... we have dismissed that claim.")

For some of us, feminism is a very real and very important force for combatting the dismissals and insults that we have experienced. And yes, we are looking for equality, not dominance. 

And in this case, we're looking for a few measly screencaps. And instead, some posters (not you specifically, Tirigon, but looking back at this thread) have decided that no, this is cause not only to dismiss a polite request but also to begin bashing those fighting for equality throughout the world.

[Clover Rider]

joriandrake wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Arrtis wrote...

Jalem001 wrote...

Who the hell cares? How did this get 29 pages?

People arguing and trolls mostly.

What am I?

people mostly, or arguing troll

You lost I AM GETH! but no I think I a bit of a troll but a good one .

[soteria]

I am not making any assumptions. Again, my point:

We don't want another case of anti-femShep.

DAO did a fantastic job portraying women equal to men in game. I never once felt like I was playing a male character (well, except audio glitches) with a female mod, as many women do with femShep.

I am acknowledging a problem that already exists. I am asking for a little change. It seems you're getting in a tizzy about that idea.

Aside from the fact that you already made assumptions about what I was saying? I know you apologized, and you didn't hurt my feelings, but I think you're trying to ignore the issue it brings up. If we agree that women make up some 40% of gamers, and we know that Bioware has always done both male and female protagonists, then why would you assume "male" when I said "iconic archer or mage"? You've argued that you're fighting against the perception that females are a small minority and should always be considered second, so why are you considering them second?

As for Shepard, she's a Marine, and her character was defined more by her actions than by her double x chromosomes. In real life, male and female Marines are treated and expected to act pretty much the same (which obvious exceptions such as uniform regs). I guess you could make some argument about how females in the military should retain more of their femininity, but that's neither here nor there.

No, Verner is masculine because it's a male name. You mentioned that those surnames don't sound masculine--Lincoln was a last name first and it's a first name. It's possible, and any woman being called "Lincoln" certainly sounds likes she has a male name. And not the cute "Charlie" kind, either.

My point was is that people will refer to you throughout the game as "Hawke" which sounds masculine. It does. Maybe not to your ear, but to pretty much everyone else's it does.

Well, I can think of boys named Lincoln, but I can't think of anyone named Hawke (first names, here). Then there's also names like Jesse and Taylor that can be male or female, first or last names. But like I said, I can't think of a case of Hawke being used as a first name. Can you?

[joriandrake]

Hawksblud wrote...

Wow, I step out for an hour and comeback to find three pages. 

Tirigon wrote...
Feminism seems outdated to me.

Okay, how best to put this without offending anyone. The ability to see feminism as outdated is a privilege, one that comes of never having been treated as an inferior due to your sex. (Both men and women can have this privilege, though obviously it is more common to men.) It is easy to stand in a position of relative privilege and scorn those who do not have that privilege because, well, you've never seen women treated as inferior and you've never treated a woman differently than a man, so sexual discrimination must not be widespread in the Western world. 

This is a fallacy. And it results from a certain innocence, I believe, which we cannot fault you for... but simply try to educate you.

However, the reason people in this thread are getting angry is because some of us have dealt with sexism, at differing levels of severity, throughout most of our lives. And it hurts to see you disregard our experiences and our voices, because guess what? That's generally how it begins. (I am reminded of the Mass Effect council... "Ah, yes, 'sexism'.... we have dismissed that claim.")

For some of us, feminism is a very real and very important force for combatting the dismissals and insults that we have experienced. And yes, we are looking for equality, not dominance. 

And in this case, we're looking for a few measly screencaps. And instead, some posters (not you specifically, Tirigon, but looking back at this thread) have decided that no, this is cause not only to dismiss a polite request but also to begin bashing those fighting for equality throughout the world.

to be fair most second generation feminists think that their goals were already achieved

[Tirigon]

Some Geth wrote...
No one not crazy can go to the Tali forums I like Tali but the fans they are nuts <_<.

Indeed.
However, they have one of the world´s greatest hentai / porn collection. All showing Tali.

[Eleinehmm]

Hawksblud wrote...

Wow, I step out for an hour and comeback to find three pages. 

Tirigon wrote...
Feminism seems outdated to me.

Okay, how best to put this without offending anyone. The ability to see feminism as outdated is a privilege, one that comes of never having been treated as an inferior due to your sex. (Both men and women can have this privilege, though obviously it is more common to men.) It is easy to stand in a position of relative privilege and scorn those who do not have that privilege because, well, you've never seen women treated as inferior and you've never treated a woman differently than a man, so sexual discrimination must not be widespread in the Western world. 

This is a fallacy. And it results from a certain innocence, I believe, which we cannot fault you for... but simply try to educate you.

However, the reason people in this thread are getting angry is because some of us have dealt with sexism, at differing levels of severity, throughout most of our lives. And it hurts to see you disregard our experiences and our voices, because guess what? That's generally how it begins. (I am reminded of the Mass Effect council... "Ah, yes, 'sexism'.... we have dismissed that claim.")

For some of us, feminism is a very real and very important force for combatting the dismissals and insults that we have experienced. And yes, we are looking for equality, not dominance. 

And in this case, we're looking for a few measly screencaps. And instead, some posters (not you specifically, Tirigon, but looking back at this thread) have decided that no, this is cause not only to dismiss a polite request but also to begin bashing those fighting for equality throughout the world.

This !

[Clover Rider]

Tirigon wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
No one not crazy can go to the Tali forums I like Tali but the fans they are nuts <_<.

Indeed.
However, they have one of the world´s greatest hentai / porn collection. All showing Tali.

Ok...

[iTomes]

Hawksblud wrote...

Wow, I step out for an hour and comeback to find three pages. 

Tirigon wrote...
Feminism seems outdated to me.

Okay, how best to put this without offending anyone. The ability to see feminism as outdated is a privilege, one that comes of never having been treated as an inferior due to your sex. (Both men and women can have this privilege, though obviously it is more common to men.) It is easy to stand in a position of relative privilege and scorn those who do not have that privilege because, well, you've never seen women treated as inferior and you've never treated a woman differently than a man, so sexual discrimination must not be widespread in the Western world. 

This is a fallacy. And it results from a certain innocence, I believe, which we cannot fault you for... but simply try to educate you.

However, the reason people in this thread are getting angry is because some of us have dealt with sexism, at differing levels of severity, throughout most of our lives. And it hurts to see you disregard our experiences and our voices, because guess what? That's generally how it begins. (I am reminded of the Mass Effect council... "Ah, yes, 'sexism'.... we have dismissed that claim.")

For some of us, feminism is a very real and very important force for combatting the dismissals and insults that we have experienced. And yes, we are looking for equality, not dominance. 

And in this case, we're looking for a few measly screencaps. And instead, some posters (not you specifically, Tirigon, but looking back at this thread) have decided that no, this is cause not only to dismiss a polite request but also to begin bashing those fighting for equality throughout the world.

i think the problem is that: feminism (or what i saw of it) only takes care of the female side of the medal (thats also what the name includes^^). but to really reach equality we all have to work on it. if we have seperated camps then we propably wont reach anything. im all for equality, but after what i saw of feminism, its the wrong way to reach it...

[Hawksblud]

joriandrake wrote...

to be fair most second generation feminists think that their goals were already achieved

That's a pretty broad claim to make.

Eleinehmm wrote...

This !

Thanks. Glad to see I'm accurately expressing the views of a larger group than myself.

[Tirigon]

Hawksblud wrote...

For some of us, feminism is a very real and very important force for combatting the dismissals and insults that we have experienced. And yes, we are looking for equality, not dominance. 

And in this case, we're looking for a few measly screencaps. And instead, some posters (not you specifically, Tirigon, but looking back at this thread) have decided that no, this is cause not only to dismiss a polite request but also to begin bashing those fighting for equality throughout the world.

And I´m totally behind you in this struggle.
My point is simply that the sexists among the feminists have given the entire movement a bad name, and not only in my eyes.
That´s why it would avoid misunderstandings if those who aren´t sexists would find a name to draw the line between themselves and the idiots among their movement.

[joriandrake]

Some Geth wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
No one not crazy can go to the Tali forums I like Tali but the fans they are nuts <_<.

Indeed.
However, they have one of the world´s greatest hentai / porn collection. All showing Tali.

Ok...

thats not true as it lacks multiple things to meet the requirements of that, as example it doesn't include twi'leks or Sis+Kiss doujin

Modifié par joriandrake, 22 juillet 2010 - 06:45 .

[Clover Rider]

Let us make a club about men I wonder what women will think of this.

[Eleinehmm]

iTomes wrote...

Hawksblud wrote...

Wow, I step out for an hour and comeback to find three pages. 

Tirigon wrote...
Feminism seems outdated to me.

Okay, how best to put this without offending anyone. The ability to see feminism as outdated is a privilege, one that comes of never having been treated as an inferior due to your sex. (Both men and women can have this privilege, though obviously it is more common to men.) It is easy to stand in a position of relative privilege and scorn those who do not have that privilege because, well, you've never seen women treated as inferior and you've never treated a woman differently than a man, so sexual discrimination must not be widespread in the Western world. 

This is a fallacy. And it results from a certain innocence, I believe, which we cannot fault you for... but simply try to educate you.

However, the reason people in this thread are getting angry is because some of us have dealt with sexism, at differing levels of severity, throughout most of our lives. And it hurts to see you disregard our experiences and our voices, because guess what? That's generally how it begins. (I am reminded of the Mass Effect council... "Ah, yes, 'sexism'.... we have dismissed that claim.")

For some of us, feminism is a very real and very important force for combatting the dismissals and insults that we have experienced. And yes, we are looking for equality, not dominance. 

And in this case, we're looking for a few measly screencaps. And instead, some posters (not you specifically, Tirigon, but looking back at this thread) have decided that no, this is cause not only to dismiss a polite request but also to begin bashing those fighting for equality throughout the world.

i think the problem is that: feminism (or what i saw of it) only takes care of the female side of the medal (thats also what the name includes^^). but to really reach equality we all have to work on it. if we have seperated camps then we propably wont reach anything. im all for equality, but after what i saw of feminism, its the wrong way to reach it...

So what would you propose? I am all for abolishing all gender specific privileges no matter the gender in question...

[Tirigon]

iTomes wrote...

i think the problem is that: feminism (or what i saw of it) only takes care of the female side of the medal (thats also what the name includes^^). but to really reach equality we all have to work on it. if we have seperated camps then we propably wont reach anything. im all for equality, but after what i saw of feminism, its the wrong way to reach it...

This. Simply QFT.

[Clover Rider]

joriandrake wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
No one not crazy can go to the Tali forums I like Tali but the fans they are nuts <_<.

Indeed.
However, they have one of the world´s greatest hentai / porn collection. All showing Tali.

Ok...

thats not true as it lacks multiple things to meet the requirements of that, as example it doesn't include twi'leks or Sis+Kiss doujin

Oh doujin the comic fan fics of Japan all bad porn :happy:.

[Tirigon]

Some Geth wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
No one not crazy can go to the Tali forums I like Tali but the fans they are nuts <_<.

Indeed.
However, they have one of the world´s greatest hentai / porn collection. All showing Tali.

Ok...

There is some porn involving geth too. Sometimes even engaged with Tali.

Yes, Tali is totally in favour of peace with the geth and uses her sex-appeal to reach it:innocent: