805 réponses à ce sujet

[Grommash94]

Eleinehmm wrote...

iTomes wrote...

Hawksblud wrote...

Wow, I step out for an hour and comeback to find three pages. 

Tirigon wrote...
Feminism seems outdated to me.

Okay, how best to put this without offending anyone. The ability to see feminism as outdated is a privilege, one that comes of never having been treated as an inferior due to your sex. (Both men and women can have this privilege, though obviously it is more common to men.) It is easy to stand in a position of relative privilege and scorn those who do not have that privilege because, well, you've never seen women treated as inferior and you've never treated a woman differently than a man, so sexual discrimination must not be widespread in the Western world. 

This is a fallacy. And it results from a certain innocence, I believe, which we cannot fault you for... but simply try to educate you.

However, the reason people in this thread are getting angry is because some of us have dealt with sexism, at differing levels of severity, throughout most of our lives. And it hurts to see you disregard our experiences and our voices, because guess what? That's generally how it begins. (I am reminded of the Mass Effect council... "Ah, yes, 'sexism'.... we have dismissed that claim.")

For some of us, feminism is a very real and very important force for combatting the dismissals and insults that we have experienced. And yes, we are looking for equality, not dominance. 

And in this case, we're looking for a few measly screencaps. And instead, some posters (not you specifically, Tirigon, but looking back at this thread) have decided that no, this is cause not only to dismiss a polite request but also to begin bashing those fighting for equality throughout the world.

i think the problem is that: feminism (or what i saw of it) only takes care of the female side of the medal (thats also what the name includes^^). but to really reach equality we all have to work on it. if we have seperated camps then we propably wont reach anything. im all for equality, but after what i saw of feminism, its the wrong way to reach it...

So what would you propose? I am all for abolishing all gender specific privileges no matter the gender in question...

There doesn't need to be a specific group for these sort of things, imo....just normal people need to have their voices heard, and change will happen.

[Tirigon]

Some Geth wrote...

Let us make a club about men I wonder what women will think of this.

Sign me in.

We can share Tali porn:devil::devil::devil:



(sarcasm, fyi)

[Hawksblud]

iTomes wrote...

i think the problem is that: feminism (or what i saw of it) only takes care of the female side of the medal (thats also what the name includes^^). but to really reach equality we all have to work on it. if we have seperated camps then we propably wont reach anything. im all for equality, but after what i saw of feminism, its the wrong way to reach it...

Okay, so, I think you and I disagree on one thing in particular. You see feminism as a mutually exclusive vision, that cannot coexist with a general strive towards equality. This is incorrect. Feminism is a belief practiced by many people. Many of those people also believe in equal rights for racial minorities, GLBT individuals, the disabled, etcetera. The quest for universal equality is all-encompassing, and different people are free to take from it what they will. Feminism is the struggle for equality of the sexes. Had we lived in a woman-dominated world, it would be called Man-ism or something similar. However, the truth is that our world has been male dominated for centuries, and so those advocating for equality were seeking to gain the right to vote for women as men already had it. And in many countries world-wide, women still do not have this right, while there is not a single country where women may vote and men cannot. So feminism remains relevant.

[Clover Rider]

Tirigon wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
No one not crazy can go to the Tali forums I like Tali but the fans they are nuts <_<.

Indeed.
However, they have one of the world´s greatest hentai / porn collection. All showing Tali.

Ok...

There is some porn involving geth too. Sometimes even engaged with Tali.

Yes, Tali is totally in favour of peace with the geth and uses her sex-appeal to reach it:innocent:

Geth don't think about sex :innocent:.

[Saibh]

Hawksblud wrote...

Wow, I step out for an hour and comeback to find three pages. 

Tirigon wrote...
Feminism seems outdated to me.

Okay, how best to put this without offending anyone. The ability to see feminism as outdated is a privilege, one that comes of never having been treated as an inferior due to your sex. (Both men and women can have this privilege, though obviously it is more common to men.) It is easy to stand in a position of relative privilege and scorn those who do not have that privilege because, well, you've never seen women treated as inferior and you've never treated a woman differently than a man, so sexual discrimination must not be widespread in the Western world. 

This is a fallacy. And it results from a certain innocence, I believe, which we cannot fault you for... but simply try to educate you.

However, the reason people in this thread are getting angry is because some of us have dealt with sexism, at differing levels of severity, throughout most of our lives. And it hurts to see you disregard our experiences and our voices, because guess what? That's generally how it begins. (I am reminded of the Mass Effect council... "Ah, yes, 'sexism'.... we have dismissed that claim.")

For some of us, feminism is a very real and very important force for combatting the dismissals and insults that we have experienced. And yes, we are looking for equality, not dominance. 

And in this case, we're looking for a few measly screencaps. And instead, some posters (not you specifically, Tirigon, but looking back at this thread) have decided that no, this is cause not only to dismiss a polite request but also to begin bashing those fighting for equality throughout the world.

Thank you. My woefully inept conversation skills were putting me at a disadvantage to express how I really felt on the subject.

[Tirigon]

Some Geth wrote...
Geth don't think about sex :innocent:.

Maybe Tali raped them.

[ScreamingPalm]

Hawksblud wrote...

For some of us, feminism is a very real and very important force for combatting the dismissals and insults that we have experienced. And yes, we are looking for equality, not dominance. 

And in this case, we're looking for a few measly screencaps. And instead, some posters (not you specifically, Tirigon, but looking back at this thread) have decided that no, this is cause not only to dismiss a polite request but also to begin bashing those fighting for equality throughout the world.

I call bull**** on that one. Go read some articles by feminist Marie Cocco from the Washington Post Writers Group who complained about stimulus money being geared towards "male oriented" jobs. Yeah right... equality. Meanwhile, the nation's infastructure crumbles because of this "equality".

[Hawksblud]

Grommash94 wrote...

There doesn't need to be a specific group for these sort of things, imo....just normal people need to have their voices heard, and change will happen.

Exactly what's going on in this board, no? Normal people asking for femHawke visibility. We're seeking change through educated discussion, and I think it's going quite well.

[joriandrake]

Some Geth wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
No one not crazy can go to the Tali forums I like Tali but the fans they are nuts <_<.

Indeed.
However, they have one of the world´s greatest hentai / porn collection. All showing Tali.

Ok...

thats not true as it lacks multiple things to meet the requirements of that, as example it doesn't include twi'leks or Sis+Kiss doujin

Oh doujin the comic fan fics of Japan all bad porn :happy:.

it is GOOD porn, plus K+S doujin doesn't differ much from the basic manga anyways :happy:

[Eleinehmm]

ScreamingPalm wrote...

Hawksblud wrote...

For some of us, feminism is a very real and very important force for combatting the dismissals and insults that we have experienced. And yes, we are looking for equality, not dominance. 

And in this case, we're looking for a few measly screencaps. And instead, some posters (not you specifically, Tirigon, but looking back at this thread) have decided that no, this is cause not only to dismiss a polite request but also to begin bashing those fighting for equality throughout the world.

I call bull**** on that one. Go read some articles by feminist Marie Cocco from the Washington Post Writers Group who complained about stimulus money being geared towards "male oriented" jobs. Yeah right... equality. Meanwhile, the nation's infastructure crumbles because of this "equality".

Sorry, what nation, pal ?

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 22 juillet 2010 - 06:52 .

[Saibh]

soteria wrote...

Aside from the fact that you already made assumptions about what I was saying? I know you apologized, and you didn't hurt my feelings, but I think you're trying to ignore the issue it brings up. If we agree that women make up some 40% of gamers, and we know that Bioware has always done both male and female protagonists, then why would you assume "male" when I said "iconic archer or mage"? You've argued that you're fighting against the perception that females are a small minority and should always be considered second, so why are you considering them second?

As for Shepard, she's a Marine, and her character was defined more by her actions than by her double x chromosomes. In real life, male and female Marines are treated and expected to act pretty much the same (which obvious exceptions such as uniform regs). I guess you could make some argument about how females in the military should retain more of their femininity, but that's neither here nor there.

Ugh, I'm terrible at putting my point across. Here, let me find a thread where I explained the issue...

"It's...just sort of a vibe I get from playing both sides. MaleShep has all of these side, sort-of love interests, and all of them are female. FemShep may get to sleep with the Consort, or be hit on by Shiala and Kelly, but it feels more like male fanservice than anything else. Gianni is pure-male Shep. Not to mention how there's almost no mention that FemShep exists outside of the game. There's nothing there just for girls, for the most part--no one acknowledges that Shepard is female in anything other than romances or pronouns. Well, except that one guy in Flux and the recruiter for Garrus' recruit mission.

Like I said, it's an overall vibe from me, and hard to put down. Whereas there are plenty of open acknowledgements of the Warden's gender all over the place.

EDIT: To add to that, it's clear that animations are done for men, and not women, since many of them--particularly when Shepard looks down or the camera looks up, they look very awkward on her smaller jaw and face. I remember when I first played as a guy after playing FemShep I was startled to see that the previously awkward looking animations, were, in fact, completely normal looking and much more natural/powerful on a male."

Lots of women who play feel as if they're gender is just not being acknowledged--but there's plenty of manly men moments, as well as a masculine feel over the entire game.

Well, I can think of boys named Lincoln, but I can't think of anyone named Hawke (first names, here). Then there's also names like Jesse and Taylor that can be male or female, first or last names. But like I said, I can't think of a case of Hawke being used as a first name. Can you?

...Again, I fail at points.

I'm simply saying that some names sound masculine, sound like they belong to a guy over a girl. Hawke is one of those--again, I'm fine with that. Some people aren't, and I'm pointing out why.

Modifié par Saibh, 22 juillet 2010 - 06:59 .

[iTomes]

"So what would you propose? I am all for abolishing all gender specific privileges no matter the gender in question..."



propably that the "good feminists" (meaning the non-sexistic) start to get more publicity. propably even a new name like Tirigon said. then finding out were the sex-privileges are (thats something members of both sexs must do together) and telling those to the politicians. the whole thing a little more public so it cant be ignored. then request a explenation why nothing of this is done yet, when the politicians are all so for equality... its propably not perfect but it'd be a step into the right direction ^^

[joriandrake]

Tirigon wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
No one not crazy can go to the Tali forums I like Tali but the fans they are nuts <_<.

Indeed.
However, they have one of the world´s greatest hentai / porn collection. All showing Tali.

Ok...

There is some porn involving geth too. Sometimes even engaged with Tali.

Yes, Tali is totally in favour of peace with the geth and uses her sex-appeal to reach it:innocent:

lol wut

[Clover Rider]

Tirigon wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
Geth don't think about sex :innocent:.

Maybe Tali raped them.

Geth don't get raped .

[ScreamingPalm]

Eleinehmm wrote...

ScreamingPalm wrote...

Hawksblud wrote...

For some of us, feminism is a very real and very important force for combatting the dismissals and insults that we have experienced. And yes, we are looking for equality, not dominance. 

And in this case, we're looking for a few measly screencaps. And instead, some posters (not you specifically, Tirigon, but looking back at this thread) have decided that no, this is cause not only to dismiss a polite request but also to begin bashing those fighting for equality throughout the world.

I call bull**** on that one. Go read some articles by feminist Marie Cocco from the Washington Post Writers Group who complained about stimulus money being geared towards "male oriented" jobs. Yeah right... equality. Meanwhile, the nation's infastructure crumbles because of this "equality".

Sorry, what nation, pal ?

Washington Post... perhaps you've heard of Washington? It's a fairly well known capital.

[Arrtis]

joriandrake wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
No one not crazy can go to the Tali forums I like Tali but the fans they are nuts <_<.

Indeed.
However, they have one of the world´s greatest hentai / porn collection. All showing Tali.

Ok...

There is some porn involving geth too. Sometimes even engaged with Tali.

Yes, Tali is totally in favour of peace with the geth and uses her sex-appeal to reach it:innocent:

lol wut

Check out how the tali threads increase by 50-100+ pages a day and realise thats not even a large amount of people.Compared to those not on these forums.

[Hawksblud]

Saibh wrote...
Thank you. My woefully inept conversation skills were putting me at a disadvantage to express how I really felt on the subject.

No worries. It's easy to get angry, I totally understand.

ScreamingPalm wrote...

I call bull**** on that one. Go read some articles by feminist Marie Cocco from the Washington Post Writers Group who complained about stimulus money being geared towards "male oriented" jobs. Yeah right... equality. Meanwhile, the nation's infastructure crumbles because of this "equality".

I am curious to why you assume that I am only speaking of the US, in a global forum concentrated around a Canadian game company.

Yes, there are extremists in every political party worldwide. They are, unfortunately, very vocal to the point where they drown out more moderate voices with messages of anger and hatred. To quote a wise man: "To argue against an idea honestly, you should argue against the best arguments of the strongest advocates. Arguing against weaker advocates proves nothing, because even the strongest idea will attract weak advocates." 

[iTomes]

Some Geth wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
Geth don't think about sex :innocent:.

Maybe Tali raped them.

Geth don't get raped .

thats what they all say.... but in the end...

[Clover Rider]

iTomes wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Some Geth wrote...
Geth don't think about sex :innocent:.

Maybe Tali raped them.

Geth don't get raped .

thats what they all say.... but in the end...

We don't get raped 

[joriandrake]

ScreamingPalm wrote...

Eleinehmm wrote...

ScreamingPalm wrote...

Hawksblud wrote...

For some of us, feminism is a very real and very important force for combatting the dismissals and insults that we have experienced. And yes, we are looking for equality, not dominance. 

And in this case, we're looking for a few measly screencaps. And instead, some posters (not you specifically, Tirigon, but looking back at this thread) have decided that no, this is cause not only to dismiss a polite request but also to begin bashing those fighting for equality throughout the world.

I call bull**** on that one. Go read some articles by feminist Marie Cocco from the Washington Post Writers Group who complained about stimulus money being geared towards "male oriented" jobs. Yeah right... equality. Meanwhile, the nation's infastructure crumbles because of this "equality".

Sorry, what nation, pal ?

Washington Post... perhaps you've heard of Washington? It's a fairly well known capital.

I hereby congratulate Washington for becoming an Independent nation!

[Eleinehmm]

ScreamingPalm wrote...

Eleinehmm wrote...

ScreamingPalm wrote...

Hawksblud wrote...

For some of us, feminism is a very real and very important force for combatting the dismissals and insults that we have experienced. And yes, we are looking for equality, not dominance. 

And in this case, we're looking for a few measly screencaps. And instead, some posters (not you specifically, Tirigon, but looking back at this thread) have decided that no, this is cause not only to dismiss a polite request but also to begin bashing those fighting for equality throughout the world.

I call bull**** on that one. Go read some articles by feminist Marie Cocco from the Washington Post Writers Group who complained about stimulus money being geared towards "male oriented" jobs. Yeah right... equality. Meanwhile, the nation's infastructure crumbles because of this "equality".

Sorry, what nation, pal ?

Washington Post... perhaps you've heard of Washington? It's a fairly well known capital.

And why should I, pray tell me, worry about things some person wrote in some fairly well known capital newspaper.
And why should I take it for granted that this some how makes the infrastructure of some fairly well known country crumble -  Is this person rules the above mentioned well-known country ?

Modifié par Eleinehmm, 22 juillet 2010 - 07:00 .

[Lyssistr]

ScreamingPalm wrote...
 Yeah right... equality. Meanwhile, the nation's infastructure crumbles because of this "equality".

Not that some hardcore feminists don't say things beyond reason, but me thinks it was the subprime mortgage crisis that caused this. This makes as much sense as seeing "male oriented jobs" being stimulated more.

[ScreamingPalm]

joriandrake wrote...

ScreamingPalm wrote...

Eleinehmm wrote...

ScreamingPalm wrote...

Hawksblud wrote...

For some of us, feminism is a very real and very important force for combatting the dismissals and insults that we have experienced. And yes, we are looking for equality, not dominance. 

And in this case, we're looking for a few measly screencaps. And instead, some posters (not you specifically, Tirigon, but looking back at this thread) have decided that no, this is cause not only to dismiss a polite request but also to begin bashing those fighting for equality throughout the world.

I call bull**** on that one. Go read some articles by feminist Marie Cocco from the Washington Post Writers Group who complained about stimulus money being geared towards "male oriented" jobs. Yeah right... equality. Meanwhile, the nation's infastructure crumbles because of this "equality".

Sorry, what nation, pal ?

Washington Post... perhaps you've heard of Washington? It's a fairly well known capital.

I hereby congratulate Washington for becoming an Independent nation!

I had no idea that capital meant nation.

Modifié par ScreamingPalm, 22 juillet 2010 - 07:03 .

[ScreamingPalm]

Lyssistr wrote...

ScreamingPalm wrote...
 Yeah right... equality. Meanwhile, the nation's infastructure crumbles because of this "equality".

Not that some hardcore feminists don't say things beyond reason, but me thinks it was the subprime mortgage crisis that caused this. This makes as much sense as seeing "male oriented jobs" being stimulated more.

The subprime mortgage crisis caused underfunding of public works projects?

[Hawksblud]

Err, instead of talking about the current US economy, any chance of actually, y'know, discussing DA2?