805 réponses à ce sujet

[Saibh]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

Monstruo696 wrote...

This is silly, a game discussion board is not the best place to fight over 5000 years of male dominated culture.

While I understand what you're trying to say, it's like going to a bar and complaining that women can't participate in the NFL.  It's not going to work, trust me.

Best post of the thread!

Personally I dont care who they market to, but if I cant play a straight male hero, im not playing! Simple as that!

As for the rest,

This isnt a political board for equal rights or a political board for homosexuality.

Last I looked you could play male or female so who really cares who is in the screen shots or trailer?

Obviously the people posting here.

Duh.

Again, you are being represented. It's easy for you to brush things off as being irrelevent since it doesn't in any way affect you. You get what you want, so why care? It's okay that you disagree, or don't care, just be more considerate when you post next time.

And how does not being represented affect you in a big way?

I don't think there's a way I can explain that you'll get, judging by your posts. There are reasons all over this thread--valid reasons--for women to want just a bit more representation.

[Rogue Unit]

RosaAquafire wrote...

Whatever, I'm out. It honestly just makes me sad looking at what some of the people here are saying ... I'm not an idealistic, but I thought we'd come further than comments like "First you want representation in government now you want representation in video gamew. When will your lust for power be satisfied?" being uttered unironically.

I hope that someone at Bioware at least feels for us, even though I'm not exactly expecting a complete change of heart.

And I hope that when my daughter buys video games, it isn't in a world where she's told that she isn't allowed to express an opinion about issues of worth wherever she feels marginalized.

Grateful to the ladies in this thread (and the more reasonable males ) who see this as it is.

Wow. My comment about the governement and whatnot was purely sarcasm.

My joke.

------------------------------

Your head.

[Vandicus]

Was the Morrigan cover male driven or female driven?



The Warden is a faceless figure on the DA:O cover, with Morrigan's face being larger and more prominent.



As for people complaining about racial representation(something I consider idiotic), fantasy games are based off of Medieval Europe's mythology, therefore things will tend to have a more European leaning. For example the European accents in DA.

[DaringMoosejaw]

Monstruo696 wrote...

The following is not directed at DaringMoosejaw:

Or don't take them up at all.

This isn't making you money, ruining your gameplay experience, affecting your life or the life of others.

You are discussing a symbol which represents nothing but the game it's trying to advertise.  Take your cause to somewhere where it matters, like an association that supports females from third world countries less fortunate than yourself if you care that much.

Or that. Whichever one doesn't have you calling everyone a bigot because they're doing something you don't like that you don't even have to care about or buy if you don't want to.

RosaAquafire wrote...

This honestly just makes me ill.

Why
do you have to treat us like this? All we're saying is that it sucks
being a minority and feeling invisible, and it would be great if we
could even get a 25% representation on the side. This DOES matter. This
is promoting "male" as "default." If you don't see a problem with that,
honestly, that sucks, but it's not my place to tell you that you should.

Just as it's not yours to tell the girls to shut up and stop whining.

We
have the right to want to feel represented. We don't neccessarily have
the right to get what we want, but we DO have it to vocalize that we
feel marginalized and be given ear and respect as a result.

How are women a minority? You make up 52% of the population. If you're a minority, the category you're going to belong to is, 'People who think they have a RIGHT to have Bioware represent a gender more in marketing' - which, thankfully, is quite the minority. A minority I have no sympathy with. Unlike actual 'minorities' who actually have their rights trampled, like women being stoned by their families for holding a man's hand in Saudi Arabia or African albinos who are segregated and hunted down for their bodyparts to use in pagan rituals, you're upset by 'society' 'promoting' something via a game company, selling a game, by using certain images.

You don't have to buy the game. You don't have to fund Bioware. You aren't being stopped from starting up your own marketing company or your own game development company, or supporting people who do market in a way you like and buying their games. Nothing is being forced upon you, yet here you are crying about your 'rights'. Bioware is not the government. Bioware owes you nothing, I owe you nothing, Neil down the street owes you nothing. Your entitlement complex gets to go screw itself the moment you demand other people serve you as you wish. Otherwise, I don't care. Don't buy the game, tell your friends not to buy the game, go on a march.

Heck, so long as the forum owners say so, you've got the right to keep telling them that you're allowed to tell them to do what you like because they owe something to you, and I've got the right to tell you I think you're being tyrannical and spoiled.

[lv12medic]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Maybe I dont understand what the deal is because Im not female but who cares what his gender is? You arent forced to play as a male when you play the game.

I think the issue is in how information about the game is presented to the general populace.  Hopefully I summarize this well enough...

Having a male Hawke on the box doesn't really affect people here because they will research and know about the game and the fact you can play a female character is known to them.  However, random person Jane walks by the video game aisle at store Y and sees male Hawke on the box and thinks they can only play a male macho killer game and walks off.  Also, if mainstream advertisment goes the same route then the general populace recieves little to no hint of the ability to play a female character in a game with a very engaging story that is more like an interactive book than a lot of other video games (like shooters and such).  The advertisements show male Hawk lopping off the heads of poor darkspawn redshirts and the general populace sees just that.  There is little and seems to be shrinking amounts of information in the way the game is advertised toward other audiences beyond the supposed target audience for Dragon Age 2.
Somewhat simplified I suppose, but I think that sums up the issue.

Also... I came up with better box art idea than a mirror image picture.  They can put it in a sleeve with one of those hologram pictures, so if you look at it one way you see male Hawke, the other you see female Hawke while leaving the rest of the background the same with the iconic Blood Dragon etc.

[Rogue Unit]

Saibh wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

Monstruo696 wrote...

This is silly, a game discussion board is not the best place to fight over 5000 years of male dominated culture.

While I understand what you're trying to say, it's like going to a bar and complaining that women can't participate in the NFL.  It's not going to work, trust me.

Best post of the thread!

Personally I dont care who they market to, but if I cant play a straight male hero, im not playing! Simple as that!

As for the rest,

This isnt a political board for equal rights or a political board for homosexuality.

Last I looked you could play male or female so who really cares who is in the screen shots or trailer?

Obviously the people posting here.

Duh.

Again, you are being represented. It's easy for you to brush things off as being irrelevent since it doesn't in any way affect you. You get what you want, so why care? It's okay that you disagree, or don't care, just be more considerate when you post next time.

And how does not being represented affect you in a big way?

I don't think there's a way I can explain that you'll get, judging by your posts. There are reasons all over this thread--valid reasons--for women to want just a bit more representation.

Please. Dont try to make me seem like a idiot.  I understand there are hundreds of valid reasons why you would want representation. My question was asking how it majorly affects you and your gameplay experience if you dont get representation.

[Saibh]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

Monstruo696 wrote...

The following is not directed at DaringMoosejaw:

Or don't take them up at all.

This isn't making you money, ruining your gameplay experience, affecting your life or the life of others.

You are discussing a symbol which represents nothing but the game it's trying to advertise.  Take your cause to somewhere where it matters, like an association that supports females from third world countries less fortunate than yourself if you care that much.

Or that. Whichever one doesn't have you calling everyone a bigot because they're doing something you don't like that you don't even have to care about or buy if you don't want to.

RosaAquafire wrote...

This honestly just makes me ill.

Why
do you have to treat us like this? All we're saying is that it sucks
being a minority and feeling invisible, and it would be great if we
could even get a 25% representation on the side. This DOES matter. This
is promoting "male" as "default." If you don't see a problem with that,
honestly, that sucks, but it's not my place to tell you that you should.

Just as it's not yours to tell the girls to shut up and stop whining.

We
have the right to want to feel represented. We don't neccessarily have
the right to get what we want, but we DO have it to vocalize that we
feel marginalized and be given ear and respect as a result.

How are women a minority? You make up 52% of the population. If you're a minority, the category you're going to belong to is, 'People who think they have a RIGHT to have Bioware represent a gender more in marketing' - which, thankfully, is quite the minority. A minority I have no sympathy with. Unlike actual 'minorities' who actually have their rights trampled, like women being stoned by their families for holding a man's hand in Saudi Arabia or African albinos who are segregated and hunted down for their bodyparts to use in pagan rituals, you're upset by 'society' 'promoting' something via a game company, selling a game, by using certain images.

You don't have to buy the game. You don't have to fund Bioware. You aren't being stopped from starting up your own marketing company or your own game development company, or supporting people who do market in a way you like and buying their games. Nothing is being forced upon you, yet here you are crying about your 'rights'. Bioware is not the government. Bioware owes you nothing, I owe you nothing, Neil down the street owes you nothing. Your entitlement complex gets to go screw itself the moment you demand other people serve you as you wish. Otherwise, I don't care. Don't buy the game, tell your friends not to buy the game, go on a march.

Heck, so long as the forum owners say so, you've got the right to keep telling them that you're allowed to tell them to do what you like because they owe something to you, and I've got the right to tell you I think you're being tyrannical and spoiled.

Well, oh, well, look who's masculinity feels threatened! I can tell, since you haven't bothered reading what the women on this post have said which is: we aren't being represented for reasons we understand, we don't have to like it, but can't you at least show just a little female Hawke?

God, we're just getting our ovaries in a twist, right?

[Saibh]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Please. Dont try to make me seem like a idiot.  I understand there are hundreds of valid reasons why you would want representation. My question was asking how it majorly affects you and your gameplay experience if you dont get representation.

It doesn't, which is why we're not all sobbing in little, sad, estrogen puddles. We'd like to see better representation, but that definitely never in a million years would stop me from playing the games.

Wanting change isn't the same as boycotting something. I'm sorry if I offended in my original post, but it seems as if there are plenty of people who refuse to acknowledge any sort of right to have your voice heard, so long as you're not the straight white male majority.

[Wishpig]

Lord_Saulot wrote...

Andrastee wrote...

As a woman, I find it annoying, but I guess I can see where they're coming from. When games do get promoted with female characters, the tone is almost invariably 'look at this sexy chick wearing next to nothing!' which I would find even more annoying. So I guess Mike Hawke is the lesser of two potential evils from the marketing department.

I'm a man and I agree - I'm happy to see a female in the marketing, as long as she is tastefully presented.

And that is why you should never go into marketing...

You know what would make me buy a videogame? A bad **** group of dwarves chopping people in two with axes.
You know what would make me NOT want to buy a videogame? A picture of a bikini wearing elf.
But, if I was in the marketing department and I had $$$ on the line, I would vote for the elf... even though it would hurt.

Any woman who gets upset or is offended over this just has to get off their high horse and deal with the facts, even if it is pretty damn unfair to them.

1. People like to associate with the character they play as. It's harder for men to associate with a female character. Men are still the considerable majority of the consumer base. Put it together.
2. There is a stygma attached to guys playing as a girl character. This is not so much the case vice versa.
3. Theres a reason every other nerd gets a hard-on when they see wolverine.

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

lv12medic wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Maybe I dont understand what the deal is because Im not female but who cares what his gender is? You arent forced to play as a male when you play the game.

I think the issue is in how information about the game is presented to the general populace.  Hopefully I summarize this well enough...

Having a male Hawke on the box doesn't really affect people here because they will research and know about the game and the fact you can play a female character is known to them.  However, random person Jane walks by the video game aisle at store Y and sees male Hawke on the box and thinks they can only play a male macho killer game and walks off.  Also, if mainstream advertisment goes the same route then the general populace recieves little to no hint of the ability to play a female character in a game with a very engaging story that is more like an interactive book than a lot of other video games (like shooters and such).  The advertisements show male Hawk lopping off the heads of poor darkspawn redshirts and the general populace sees just that.  There is little and seems to be shrinking amounts of information in the way the game is advertised toward other audiences beyond the supposed target audience for Dragon Age 2.
Somewhat simplified I suppose, but I think that sums up the issue.

Also... I came up with better box art idea than a mirror image picture.  They can put it in a sleeve with one of those hologram pictures, so if you look at it one way you see male Hawke, the other you see female Hawke while leaving the rest of the background the same with the iconic Blood Dragon etc.

And everyone rejoiced.

[Malanek]

Ease up a bit. I didn't really want to get into this thread. I believe Bioware have the right to market thier games how they want. I also believe that people posting in this thread asking and suggesting for a more balanced representation are fully entitled to do so. They haven't been rude or demanding. It is a single thread which you do not have to read. Bioware can take on board what they want out of it.

[Andaius20]

Saibh wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Please. Dont try to make me seem like a idiot.  I understand there are hundreds of valid reasons why you would want representation. My question was asking how it majorly affects you and your gameplay experience if you dont get representation.

It doesn't, which is why we're not all sobbing in little, sad, estrogen puddles. We'd like to see better representation, but that definitely never in a million years would stop me from playing the games.

Wanting change isn't the same as boycotting something. I'm sorry if I offended in my original post, but it seems as if there are plenty of people who refuse to acknowledge any sort of right to have your voice heard, so long as you're not the straight white male majority.

Eh as I said in my post, I just don't think your in the demographic they want to drill into. limited funds and all that.

[DaringMoosejaw]

Saibh wrote...

Well, oh, well, look who's masculinity feels threatened! I can tell, since you haven't bothered reading what the women on this post have said which is: we aren't being represented for reasons we understand, we don't have to like it, but can't you at least show just a little female Hawke?

God, we're just getting our ovaries in a twist, right?

Ad hominem at me all day, don't care. My masculinity has nothing to do with the above rant, my problem is with people who have entitlement complexes. People who think they can push private individuals around by hitting them with a 'Bigot' stick. I'd have no problem (personally) playing a game with a female narrative, women prominent in marketing and so forth if I liked the story and I thought it'd be a good game. However, I'm not going to screech at the top of my lungs that they're being misandrist for getting rid of all the males, and that my genitalia gives me the divine glory to demand you develop and market games to my liking because I deserve it.

I don't see why they couldn't show the female protagonist, but if they don't want to, that's the way things go. I'm not going to go nuts about it.

[Lyssistr]

Saibh wrote...


Again, you are being represented. It's easy for you to brush things off as being irrelevent since it doesn't in any way affect you. You get what you want, so why care? It's okay that you disagree, or don't care, just be more considerate when you post next time.

 Mind if I ask you something, a male on the front cover is a bad thing, it seems a sexy female being there is even worse. In all honesty, what do you expect, a 50 yr old female clerk? I mean really, and no offense meant, I'm curious to hear what kind of cover you would want to see.

All front covers I have seen in both genres either promote a beautiful/handsome sexy body or focus on a beautiful face and the dressing is more modest, why should DA be different and why a sexy female is offensive but a muscular Hawke isn't. I mean, I wouldn't expect this guy to make a successful front cover:



 Now to reverse your question, who'd you rather see on a front cover, Brad Pitt or Danny Devito? Do you find it odd that I'd rather see the female version of Pitt rather than the female version of Devito?

Modifié par Lyssistr, 22 juillet 2010 - 03:20 .

[Andaius20]

I alike the Idea, of dual cover box art. One of the Garrus gals actually made a cool suggestion a while back. For ME 3 they can have they're poster boy Sheploo on the front, but when you open it up you have Femshep on the opposite side.

[Rogue Unit]

This is why all Hawkes should just be shemales.

[Beerfish]

Courtesy of one of our resident terrific artists Aimo.



http://aimo.deviantart.com/#/d2u7vnv

[DaringMoosejaw]

Lyssistr wrote...

Saibh wrote...


Again, you are being represented. It's easy for you to brush things off as being irrelevent since it doesn't in any way affect you. You get what you want, so why care? It's okay that you disagree, or don't care, just be more considerate when you post next time.

 Mind if I ask you something, a male on the front cover is a bad thing, it seems a sexy female being there is even worse. In all honesty, what do you expect, a 50 yr old female clerk? I mean really, and no offense meant, I'm curious to hear what kind of cover you would want to see.

All front covers I have seen in both genres either promote a beautiful/handsome sexy body or focus on a beautiful face and the dressing is more modest, why should DA be different and why a sexy female is offensive but a muscular Hawke isn't. I mean, I wouldn't expect this guy to make a successful front cover:



 Now to reverse your question, who'd you rather see on a front cover, Brad Pitt or Danny Devito? Do you find it odd that I'd rather see the female version of Pitt rather than the female version of Devito?

There's more sex appeal concentrated in Hawke's beard than any image of Morrigan you can drum up. That's the truth.

[Patr10t1]

Its the art thats it, you can be a dwarf or elf in the DA:O but doesn't mean they have to put it on the cover. Thats the default character, if you hate it so much just ripped the cover off it when you buy it and play the game .

[Andaius20]

Beerfish wrote...

Courtesy of one of our resident terrific artists Aimo.

http://aimo.deviantart.com/#/d2u7vnv

Aimo she's just awesome like that.

[Saibh]

Lyssistr wrote...

Saibh wrote...


Again, you are being represented. It's easy for you to brush things off as being irrelevent since it doesn't in any way affect you. You get what you want, so why care? It's okay that you disagree, or don't care, just be more considerate when you post next time.

 Mind if I ask you something, a male on the front cover is a bad thing, it seems a sexy female being there is even worse. In all honesty, what do you expect, a 50 yr old female clerk? I mean really, and no offense meant, I'm curious to hear what kind of cover you would want to see.

All front covers I have seen in both genres either promote a beautiful/handsome sexy body or focus on a beautiful face and the dressing is more modest, why should DA be different and why a sexy female is offensive but a muscular Hawke isn't. I mean, I wouldn't expect this guy to make a successful front cover:



 Now to reverse your question, who'd you rather see on a front cover, Brad Pitt or Danny Devito? Do you find it odd that I'd rather see the female version of Pitt rather than the female version of Devito?

Have I objected to how Morrigan or Wu the Lotus Blossom looked on their covers at all? No. Not once.

And, just so you know, Bastila and Ashley look completely tasteful on their covers--Miranda is obviously sexualized, but not skanky or distasteful in any way.

Men. Listen to me (well, us): most of us are not objecting to male Hawke. We just want for female Hawke to be acknowledged. God, one trailer would be fine. In fact, it'd be fantastic! We'd like to see a few screenshots, some concept art, something.

We do not want to chop off male Hawke's d***.

Please get that through your heads.

[Rogue Unit]

Saibh wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Saibh wrote...


Again, you are being represented. It's easy for you to brush things off as being irrelevent since it doesn't in any way affect you. You get what you want, so why care? It's okay that you disagree, or don't care, just be more considerate when you post next time.

 Mind if I ask you something, a male on the front cover is a bad thing, it seems a sexy female being there is even worse. In all honesty, what do you expect, a 50 yr old female clerk? I mean really, and no offense meant, I'm curious to hear what kind of cover you would want to see.

All front covers I have seen in both genres either promote a beautiful/handsome sexy body or focus on a beautiful face and the dressing is more modest, why should DA be different and why a sexy female is offensive but a muscular Hawke isn't. I mean, I wouldn't expect this guy to make a successful front cover:



 Now to reverse your question, who'd you rather see on a front cover, Brad Pitt or Danny Devito? Do you find it odd that I'd rather see the female version of Pitt rather than the female version of Devito?

Have I objected to how Morrigan or Wu the Lotus Blossom looked on their covers at all? No. Not once.

And, just so you know, Bastila and Ashley look completely tasteful on their covers--Miranda is obviously sexualized, but not skanky or distasteful in any way.

Men. Listen to me (well, us): most of us are not objecting to male Hawke. We just want for female Hawke to be acknowledged. God, one trailer would be fine. In fact, it'd be fantastic! We'd like to see a few screenshots, some concept art, something.

We do not want to chop off male Hawke's d***.

Please get that through your heads.

Thats completely fine. I myself would like to see some screenshots of Female Hawke. I just wouldnt expect anything so soon considering we only have a handful of screenshots of Male Hawke.  Bioware never said we wont see any FemHawke just wait maybe the next set of screenies will have her in them.


Just hope they hide her away unitl release like Femshep.

[Lyssistr]

Saibh wrote...


Have I objected to how Morrigan or Wu the Lotus Blossom looked on their covers at all? No. Not once.

And, just so you know, Bastila and Ashley look completely tasteful on their covers--Miranda is obviously sexualized, but not skanky or distasteful in any way.

Morrigan's sexy and Bastila simply has a pretty face, in a movie I'd pick Jolie to play Bastila. So I take it that a beautiful woman is not a "bad" option as suggested by some posters. I mean choosing an unappealing one would be the equivalent of a male like the one I posted on the front cover and all this just sounded a little odd.

Men. Listen to me (well, us): most of us are not objecting to male Hawke. We just want for female Hawke to be acknowledged. God, one trailer would be fine. In fact, it'd be fantastic! We'd like to see a few screenshots, some concept art, something.

We do not want to chop off male Hawke's d***.

Please get that through your heads.

okie dokie, I think most people would want a hawt woman on the front cover, I was just a little confused because some posters seemed to imply that that would be even worse.

leave Hawkes d*** in peace!

Modifié par Lyssistr, 22 juillet 2010 - 03:39 .

[DaringMoosejaw]

Saibh wrote...

Have I objected to how Morrigan or Wu the Lotus Blossom looked on their covers at all? No. Not once.

And, just so you know, Bastila and Ashley look completely tasteful on their covers--Miranda is obviously sexualized, but not skanky or distasteful in any way.

Men. Listen to me (well, us): most of us are not objecting to male Hawke. We just want for female Hawke to be acknowledged. God, one trailer would be fine. In fact, it'd be fantastic! We'd like to see a few screenshots, some concept art, something.

We do not want to chop off male Hawke's d***.

Please get that through your heads.

Fine with me, I wish you luck in wanting to see the version of the character you want because you like it. My problem was not with you or anyone asking for more FemHawke, but with the other poster who seemed to think Bioware not going through the effort or not making it a part of their marketing strategy to include the female protagonist meaning that Bioware is oppressing half of the human race via a bigoted and malicious policy.

[Saibh]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

Fine with me, I wish you luck in wanting to see the version of the character you want because you like it. My problem was not with you or anyone asking for more FemHawke, but with the other poster who seemed to think Bioware not going through the effort or not making it a part of their marketing strategy to include the female protagonist meaning that Bioware is oppressing half of the human race via a bigoted and malicious policy.

Not to insult my gaming sisters, but, yeah, you'll always have very vocal, very angry members of any group. The most important thing is to remember that they're not everyone, and don't generalize those few as being like the rest of us. Please?

Modifié par Saibh, 22 juillet 2010 - 03:47 .