805 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

StellarSparrow wrote...

Unfortunately for us girl gamers, I'm pretty sure the men outnumber us. So if men are going to identify more with a male protagonist, it just makes more sense to market it as such. I shouldn't get too upset about it, it seems to me that it's just a pragmatic marketing decision.

True, but men are also love their sexualized imagery. IMO, it depends on what fantasy you are selling. If you're selling it wish fulfillment, then you want beefcake American dude eating steel and murdering everything on the cover. And I think that's the direction Bioware is going in.

[Rogue Unit]

Saibh, I like you.

[RosaAquafire]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

Fine with me, I wish you luck in wanting to see the version of the character you want because you like it. My problem was not with you or anyone asking for more FemHawke, but with the other poster who seemed to think Bioware not going through the effort or not making it a part of their marketing strategy to include the female protagonist meaning that Bioware is oppressing half of the human race via a bigoted and malicious policy.

Yeah, I lurked like all people who explode and say that they're taking their ball home, sue me

Honestly, if what I said came across that way, I am very sorry, I tend to get passionate and result to hyperbole that I don't actually mean. I don't think any of that. You don't have to quote anything I said and bullet point how it could have come across that way, like I said, I realize that when I get into something I can say things wrong.

I do recall saying that I don't think I have any right to get what I want -- just to state that I'd like to have it. And I do think there's an issue that "male" is synonymous with "default" and I wish I lived in a world where that wasn't the case. That's all that I'm saying, and that's all I ever intended to say, and I'm very sorry if I made anyone who feels the way I do look poorly by stating it wrong.

I respect Bioware very much for their portrayal of women in games. I just wish that their marketting was less bound to the negative aspects of society.

[Lyssistr]

Saibh wrote...

Not to insult my gaming sisters, but, yeah, you'll always have very vocal, very angry members of any group. The most important thing is to remember that they're not everyone, and don't generalize those few as being like the rest of us. Please?

nowai, all women are the same, true story!

[In Exile]

TeenZombie wrote...

I am not thrilled by the fact that an "iconic" Hawke was chosen, who happens to be male, but I can accept it.  What I really, really am concerned about is that the last game Bioware marketed, Mass Effect 2, completely erased Female Shepard from any screenshots, trailers or art, until a few days before the game's launch.  I don't want to see this repeated with DA2.

If anyone is wondering *why* I want to see screenshots or trailers of FemHawke, I would ask, why should Bioware *not* show off a female version of the hero?  What is gained by alienating those who primarily play female characters?  If the statistics are correct, and forty percent of gamers are female, isn't that an important and vital demographic to market to?  Wouldn't sales be hurt by *not* attracting this audience?

Just for the record, the same was done with FemShep in ME. Don't know the reason why.

[Saibh]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Saibh, I like you.

...Are you being ironic? 

[Rogue Unit]

Nope you're one of the few people here that can actually hold a conversation and be reasoned with.

[Saibh]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Nope you're one of the few people here that can actually hold a conversation and be reasoned with.

Oh. Well thank you. 
All part of my master plan.

[Rogue Unit]

Now Im afraid.

[In Exile]

To address the OP, I think the issue with male-driven marketing is that you have a male-oriented industry. Which is to say that many of the developers, executives and (possibly) marketing deparments are staffed largely by men. Until you have female game designers in large numbers, female executives making boardroom decisions, etc. you will see marketing directed toward men.

I don't think it's a malicious or sexist issue at all. What I simply think happens is that they try and conceive the most relatable figure for a wish-fulfillment fantasy. As to why they're not using a female as well, well, I think that goes to assuming your viewers are idiots, and OMG LOL if u sho 2 heros ppl will get confuzed.

[Saibh]

In Exile wrote...

To address the OP, I think the issue with male-driven marketing is that you have a male-oriented industry. Which is to say that many of the developers, executives and (possibly) marketing deparments are staffed largely by men. Until you have female game designers in large numbers, female executives making boardroom decisions, etc. you will see marketing directed toward men.

I don't think it's a malicious or sexist issue at all. What I simply think happens is that they try and conceive the most relatable figure for a wish-fulfillment fantasy. As to why they're not using a female as well, well, I think that goes to assuming your viewers are idiots, and OMG LOL if u sho 2 heros ppl will get confuzed.

Actually, I disagree. I don't think it has anything to do with the people making the games, but rather the people buying them. Despite us being the largest minority, we are a minority. Most women here acknowledge the fact that it'll be a long time until we see equal representation. 

But you take a look at how FemShep is treated. We don't want that. We just want to see some official stuff that acknowledges she exists.

[Riona45]

Rogue Unit wrote...
And how does not being represented affect you in a big way?

How does someone explain that to a person who thinks marginalized social groups wanting equal representation in the government equals a "lust for power?" 

Why bother?

EDIT:  OK, I see you meant that as a joke (not a good one, but whatever).  I'm leaving this post intact, though, because I have the feeling, judging by the tone of some posts that some people here get angry when women (and other social groups) *do* want representation in the government.

Modifié par Riona45, 22 juillet 2010 - 04:10 .

[Lyssistr]

In Exile wrote...

To address the OP, I think the issue with male-driven marketing is that you have a male-oriented industry. Which is to say that many of the developers, executives and (possibly) marketing deparments are staffed largely by men. Until you have female game designers in large numbers, female executives making boardroom decisions, etc. you will see marketing directed toward men.

I don't think it's a malicious or sexist issue at all. What I simply think happens is that they try and conceive the most relatable figure for a wish-fulfillment fantasy. As to why they're not using a female as well, well, I think that goes to assuming your viewers are idiots, and OMG LOL if u sho 2 heros ppl will get confuzed.

Maybe yes maybe no, I mean Tomb Raider IP is successful and advertised towards the same audience by people from the same industry. I don't really have any piecharts at hand nor any statistics, so I can only speak from a personal perspective:

If I am to look a computer screen for 60 hours, I'd rather look at a woman than at Mr. Hawke's beard .

[snfonseka]

paperclipgirl102 wrote...

Hey guys,

 I was wondering
if there are any other females out there who are a little put off by Bio-Ware's
continuous use of a male lead in their marketing ads. In both ME and DA:O you
had the choice of being either sex. I am little put off by the fact that
they are choosing to aim the market towards the male demographic. Why not show
a female Hawke in the advertising for DA2? Look at successful marketing such as
Laura Croft, Samus, and countless others. I feel that Bio-Ware could use a
female protagonist that both males and females would love to relate to, and
watch in trailers and advertisements for the games.

Ok, I'm off my soapbox.

Who cares about marketing, this is a RPG so you can choose your gender for Shepard..... Just enjoy the game if you like it and don't think about the markerting strategies too much. Developers desided to have Laura Croft and Samus to be female and thats their choice... In BW they have decided to go with male versions... thats it.

[RosaAquafire]

Saibh wrote...

But you take a look at how FemShep is treated. We don't want that. We just want to see some official stuff that acknowledges she exists.

Exactly, I think that's all anyone here is realistically asking for. More would be nice, and there's no reason not to dream, but yeah. I actually wouldn't want an all LadyHawke marketting campaign, either. I liked how DA:O presented a lot of different default wardens for the different Origins ... while we don't have that option in DA2, something similar would be nice

We just don't want our LadyHawke to be completely pushed under a rug.

[AndrastesKnickers]

Beerfish wrote...

Courtesy of one of our resident terrific artists Aimo.

http://aimo.deviantart.com/#/d2u7vnv

This is what came to my mind too and was going to post it, but you got to it first . I love this picture.

[Lyssistr]

To clarify things, on announcement day I nerdraged to scr** Hawke and replace him with Megan Fawkes but those biased developers never listen!

[RunNeonTiger]

snfonseka wrote...

paperclipgirl102 wrote...

Hey guys,

 I was wondering
if there are any other females out there who are a little put off by Bio-Ware's
continuous use of a male lead in their marketing ads. In both ME and DA:O you
had the choice of being either sex. I am little put off by the fact that
they are choosing to aim the market towards the male demographic. Why not show
a female Hawke in the advertising for DA2? Look at successful marketing such as
Laura Croft, Samus, and countless others. I feel that Bio-Ware could use a
female protagonist that both males and females would love to relate to, and
watch in trailers and advertisements for the games.

Ok, I'm off my soapbox.

Who cares about marketing, this is a RPG so you can choose your gender for Shepard..... Just enjoy the game if you like it and don't think about the markerting strategies too much. Developers desided to have Laura Croft and Samus to be female and thats their choice... In BW they have decided to go with male versions... thats it.

While I'm not trying to start another argument here, I'd just like to point out that you can't decide whether or not Lara Croft or Samus are male or female in Tomb Raider and Metroid as you can Hawke in DA2.

I actually really like the idea of holographic box art where it changes from male to female. I think that would be really cool, but probably fairly expensive I imagine. If they don't do that, then yes, I think concept art and screenshots of Lady Hawke and mention in other places besides the Bioware Social Network that you can play as a female. A trailer would be nice too, but I'm fine with just some screenshots as long as Lady Hawke has a decent default face like He-Hawke so it won't be like ME.

[Koffeegirl]

I made a thread a few days ago asking for some concept art of Lady Hawke, it got off topic and was closed.http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/3149255 Also, no one from Bioware said they were going to release any so unfortunately I don't think we will see Lady Hawke at all until right before the game comes out

[Koffeegirl]

Unless Bioware decides from looking at all the requests to give us a screenshot?

[NKKKK]

If they're not in the kitchen, they shouldn't be in the cover art.

[FieryDove]

snfonseka wrote...


Who cares about marketing, this is a RPG so you can choose your gender for Shepard.....

I would imagine all the people posting in this thread saying they care...

I don't expect a ladyhawke advertising campaign, but I am also in the camp who would love to see some screenshots and a trailer (hide it on the site no announcement if it must be so people won't be *confused*).

See key words : would love to see...not demanding/boycotting/pmsing... OK?

[Hawksblud]

Also to address OP: To be perfectly honest, this is part of a much larger problem which encompasses society as a whole. It's the reason the Warden pictured on the box is unfailingly always going to be white, as well as male. Ditto Shepard, even if my primary looked like she hailed from Pakistan. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be doing everything possible to change the current status quo, which means speaking up as opposed to quietly going along with it. That being said, Bioware is on the forefront of game companies in this regard. They do let you play as a girl, and they've done their best not only to level the playing field with equitable romance options and general gameplay and roleplaying features, but also to incorporate alternate sexualities, etc. So thank you to Bioware, but please keep fighting to stay on the forefront by throwing us a few more bones. Progress takes effort, continual effort.

To all those asking, why does representation matter? I would direct you here:
http://yuki-onna.liv...com/450101.html
She puts it far better than I could.

editted for grammar fail.

Modifié par Hawksblud, 22 juillet 2010 - 04:24 .

[Lyssistr]

It's either Megan Fawkes or no go!



United we shall prevail

[Captain Jazz]

I don't really see it as that big of a deal... I never really care for the character on the front of the box, myself. What does amuse me though is when other guys find out that roughly 95% of all my characters are female, they assume I'm gay... because, yes, preferring to spend 60 hours staring at a woman's backside is a far greater indicator of teh ghey than spending those hours staring at the arse of a hairy manbeast, yes.

So... hmm... yes, more ladies on the boxes, the male hero has had his day and needs to take a nap for a while. Go team heroine force!