805 réponses à ce sujet

[Riona45]

Hawksblud wrote...
. That being said, Bioware is on the forefront of game companies in this regard. They do let you play as a girl, and they've done their best not only to level the playing field with equitable romance options and general gameplay and roleplaying features, but also to incorporate alternate sexualities, etc. So thank you to Bioware, but please keep fighting to stay on the forefront by throwing us a few more bones. Progress takes effort, continual effort.

Right--I think in this case bringing issues like this up on the BioWare boards is a sign that people believe BW will actually take them seriously.  That's how I see it anyway.

Also, I don't think things like pop culture and advertising are as trivial and ineffectual with regards to social norms as many people think they are (or, would like to believe they are).

To all those asking, why does representation matter? I would direct you here:
http://yuki-onna.liv...com/450101.html
She puts it far better than I could.

Thank you for the link.

[Chairon de Celeste]

paperclipgirl102 wrote...

Hey guys,

 I was wondering
if there are any other females out there who are a little put off by Bio-Ware's
continuous use of a male lead in their marketing ads. In both ME and DA:O you
had the choice of being either sex. I am little put off by the fact that
they are choosing to aim the market towards the male demographic. Why not show
a female Hawke in the advertising for DA2? Look at successful marketing such as
Laura Croft, Samus, and countless others. I feel that Bio-Ware could use a
female protagonist that both males and females would love to relate to, and
watch in trailers and advertisements for the games.

Ok, I'm off my soapbox.

IIRC Chris Priestley explained that in another thread about  2 weeks ago.

Can't say though it did sit better with me afterwards

[Hawksblud]

Riona45 wrote...
Right--I think in this case bringing issues like this up on the BioWare boards is a sign that people believe BW will actually take them seriously.  That's how I see it anyway.
Also, I don't think things like pop culture and advertising are as trivial and ineffectual with regards to social norms as many people think they are (or, would like to believe they are).

Definitely. Discussion raises awareness, which hopefully in turn will cause action. I think visibility is very important when it comes to changing perceptions. If a thing cannot be ignored, well, then you actually have to think and do something about it.

[In Exile]

Saibh wrote...

Actually, I disagree. I don't think it has anything to do with the people making the games, but rather the people buying them. Despite us being the largest minority, we are a minority.

I don't agree with this at all. I'm Jewish. Look at comedy - there is an oversaturation of Jewish humour. Despite the audience being largely non-Jewish (and I mean largely - we make up 1.2% of the American population), our style of humour is prominent. TV tropes has a whole section on it.

Part of this has to do with the fact that there are a lot of Jewish writers and comedians.

Being a minority has nothing to do with representation. That being said, women are not a minority in the numerical sense, which is a dramatic difference from being a minority in the numerical sense.

Would a Jewish perspective in comedy be as common as it is without Mel Brooks or Jackie Mason? Without Jon Stewart? Adam Sadler?

Most women here acknowledge the fact that it'll be a long time until we see equal representation.

Certainly, but one major factor is representation.

But you take a look at how FemShep is treated. We don't want that. We just want to see some official stuff that acknowledges she exists.

You get that - the developers say that you can play as a female. Insofar as people say, there are no differences between men and women, let's pick a model and stick with it because our consumers are too stupid to understand a protagonist with variable gender, and the room is filled with men, your standard bearer will

[Saibh]

Hawksblud wrote...
To all those asking, why does representation matter? I would direct you here:
http://yuki-onna.liv...com/450101.html
She puts it far better than I could.

I think she's being just a teensy bit melodramatic. /runhides

...

I think that some of her points go a long way to word something I struggle to, but at the same time, I think she's taking some things just a little too harshly, and seeing them from only one angle--that not being represented means that the developers hate us, and for no other reason. Some of what she says is I'm so pleased to read, since she puts it in a much more eloquent, well-thought out fashion than I ever could, but I still think that any guy reading that would sort of roll his eyes. I know I did.

I think it would apply better to a movie or television program--in a video game you have far better excuses not to include a demographic, since everything you see is built from the pinky toe up. You can't hire a gay actor to act out gay love scenes. You have to make them.

Does anyone see my point? 

[AndrastesKnickers]

NKKKK wrote...

If they're not in the kitchen, they shouldn't be in the cover art.

wow....

[Saibh]

AndrastesKnickers wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

If they're not in the kitchen, they shouldn't be in the cover art.

wow....

He's just trolling, I'm sure. Acknowledging him is like glaring at a dog that's been bad--they still derive pleasure from the attention.

[joriandrake]

I would actually like to see a scene where a warrior or mage female uses some "Unique" abilities to make food, it has the fun potential of an anime scene.

[NKKKK]

Saibh wrote...

AndrastesKnickers wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

If they're not in the kitchen, they shouldn't be in the cover art.

wow....

He's just trolling, I'm sure. Acknowledging him is like glaring at a dog that's been bad--they still derive pleasure from the attention.

What's funny is that most of my wardens and sheps are females lol

[iTomes]

joriandrake wrote...

I would actually like to see a scene where a warrior or mage female uses some "Unique" abilities to make food, it has the fun potential of an anime scene.

oh jorian you appearantly dont know when to keep the mouth shut.... if i was you i would take cover, for i guess soon the "manslayer" will fall upon you

[Rubbish Hero]

Males have bigger muscles, it makes sense to them.
Woman are weak physically unless they some sort of freak like China, in which case it's a bad idea putting them on the box cover as males wont buy it. Men like pretty woman, it makes sense to use them, it's a fantasy game, there are plenty of ugly woman in real life with jobs.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 22 juillet 2010 - 04:53 .

[joriandrake]

iTomes wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

I would actually like to see a scene where a warrior or mage female uses some "Unique" abilities to make food, it has the fun potential of an anime scene.

oh jorian you appearantly dont know when to keep the mouth shut.... if i was you i would take cover, for i guess soon the "manslayer" will fall upon you

I don't care, I will defend animes until my last dying breath! So much emotion, humor, romance, action, way better than western stuff (usually, with the big exception of Doctor Who)


www.youtube.com/watch


edit: nearly forgot: also less prudeness

Modifié par joriandrake, 22 juillet 2010 - 04:53 .

[Lyssistr]

Captain Jazz wrote...

I don't really see it as that big of a deal... I never really care for the character on the front of the box, myself. What does amuse me though is when other guys find out that roughly 95% of all my characters are female, they assume I'm gay... because, yes, preferring to spend 60 hours staring at a woman's backside is a far greater indicator of teh ghey than spending those hours staring at the arse of a hairy manbeast, yes.
So... hmm... yes, more ladies on the boxes, the male hero has had his day and needs to take a nap for a while. Go team heroine force!

Your friends don't play WoW for sure , I doubt if there are any male toons left after the genre change patch. 

[iTomes]

joriandrake wrote...

iTomes wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

I would actually like to see a scene where a warrior or mage female uses some "Unique" abilities to make food, it has the fun potential of an anime scene.

oh jorian you appearantly dont know when to keep the mouth shut.... if i was you i would take cover, for i guess soon the "manslayer" will fall upon you

I don't care, I will defend animes until my last dying breath! So much emotion, humor, romance, action, way better than western stuff (usually, with the big exception of Doctor Who)


www.youtube.com/watch


edit: nearly forgot: also less prudeness

well im going into cover before the femina-bomb will detonate.....^^

[Chairon de Celeste]

Found the thread with CP's answer on page 2

Marketing DA2: Is featuring a female player
character really impossible? (thread is locked)

You can play as a human male or human female character in Dragon Age 2.

Will
you only see the human male in the marketing? I am not sure (we have
many months to go yet) but I would guess that, yes, we will mostly use
the male character for marketing. Why? Well, there are a lot of
marketing reasons for this.

It is important to lock a
recognizeable image into the mind of consumers. This is why companys
create logos and create brand recognition. You see the goldern arches,
you know it is McDonalds. The instant recognition that the image
represents the product is very important. Changing the image causes
confusion in the mind of advertisers, retailers and potential customers.

Another
reason is that males are still the largest target audience for our type
of video game. It is also proven data that males predominantly play or
associate with a male character first. Hence, the male image. This does
not mean that female gamers or male gamers who prefer to play female
characters are less important, but they are a smaller consumer group.
All marketing is always about attracting the largest group available.

There
are a bunch of reasons why we do this in marketing and I know that it
annoys some of our fans and I am sorry for this, but it likely won't
change. I am confidant that our fans, being imo smarter than the average
gamers, realize this and begrudgingly accept this. Evey game I do push
to release female character images, screens, videos etc as BioWare does
greatly value our "female PC first" audience and I plan to keep doing
this for DA2.

Modifié par Chairon de Celeste, 22 juillet 2010 - 04:59 .

[Lyssistr]

Woman are weak physically unless they some sort of freak like China, in which case it's a bad idea putting them on the box cover as males wont buy it.  

u sure!? mma fighters:

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Gina_Carano

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Kyra_Gracie

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Julie_Kedzie

me thinks you'd buy it.

[Rubbish Hero]

The recognizable image isn't the image the player is likely using.

Like Mass Effect, it sucks and makes your character feel fake. Also, same voice, sucks. Silent was far better.

[Guns3]

How do you think I feel when I see a Metroid or Laura Croft game? I'm deeply offended and find it extremely sexist there is no male counterpart.

Modifié par Guns3, 22 juillet 2010 - 05:02 .

[NugWrangler]

The game is eight months away, for now I'm going to be optimistic that female Hawke will be revealed in some form before then. Lady Hawke already has such a big following, I don't think they will neglect her. I was disappointed after seeing the awesome art of the Beard Hawke that there was no Lady Hawke as well. It's not going to stop me from buying the game, but as a fan it would be exciting to see.



There was a thread just like this that got locked for being overtaken by sexist nonsense. It's a pity we can't sustain respectful discussions about these kinds of issues. I wonder how long until this thread is devoured by the trolls too?

[London]

I'm a gay male and I'm drawn to covers with scantily clad women on them, like the EverQuest elf in 1999, and Antonia Bayle for EQ2. *shrug* I enjoy female characters that can be sexy and bad ass, and metro guys that are more demure and helpless like Alistair. lol

[javierabegazo]

Chairon de Celeste wrote...

Found the thread with CP's answer on page 2

Marketing DA2: Is featuring a female player
character really impossible? (thread is locked)

You can play as a human male or human female character in Dragon Age 2.

Will
you only see the human male in the marketing? I am not sure (we have
many months to go yet) but I would guess that, yes, we will mostly use
the male character for marketing. Why? Well, there are a lot of
marketing reasons for this.

It is important to lock a
recognizeable image into the mind of consumers. This is why companys
create logos and create brand recognition. You see the goldern arches,
you know it is McDonalds. The instant recognition that the image
represents the product is very important. Changing the image causes
confusion in the mind of advertisers, retailers and potential customers.

Another
reason is that males are still the largest target audience for our type
of video game. It is also proven data that males predominantly play or
associate with a male character first. Hence, the male image. This does
not mean that female gamers or male gamers who prefer to play female
characters are less important, but they are a smaller consumer group.
All marketing is always about attracting the largest group available.

There
are a bunch of reasons why we do this in marketing and I know that it
annoys some of our fans and I am sorry for this, but it likely won't
change. I am confidant that our fans, being imo smarter than the average
gamers, realize this and begrudgingly accept this. Evey game I do push
to release female character images, screens, videos etc as BioWare does
greatly value our "female PC first" audience and I plan to keep doing
this for DA2.

Thanks for digging that up, I'm surprised the OP didn't do it sooner

[Addai]

Why do people even want an archetypal femHawke image? You'll be creating your own character, why do you want to see the work-up of the art department which won't have any bearing on your own game? *confused*

[javierabegazo]

Addai67 wrote...

Why do people even want an archetypal femHawke image? You'll be creating your own character, why do you want to see the work-up of the art department which won't have any bearing on your own game? *confused*

It's because they feel they are not 'acknowledged'.   But the hard facts are that male gamers are simply a larger crowd than female gamers and as such, is mainly going to marketed to them. I don't see why there's any reason to take offense

[joriandrake]

iTomes wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

iTomes wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

I would actually like to see a scene where a warrior or mage female uses some "Unique" abilities to make food, it has the fun potential of an anime scene.

oh jorian you appearantly dont know when to keep the mouth shut.... if i was you i would take cover, for i guess soon the "manslayer" will fall upon you

I don't care, I will defend animes until my last dying breath! So much emotion, humor, romance, action, way better than western stuff (usually, with the big exception of Doctor Who)


www.youtube.com/watch


edit: nearly forgot: also less prudeness

well im going into cover before the femina-bomb will detonate.....^^

don't tell me people will demand me to get banned because anime support too

[joriandrake]

SebastianDA wrote...

I'm a gay male and I'm drawn to covers with scantily clad women on them, like the EverQuest elf in 1999, and Antonia Bayle for EQ2. *shrug* I enjoy female characters that can be sexy and bad ass, and metro guys that are more demure and helpless like Alistair. lol

hmm, maybe you are bi without realizing it