101 réponses à ce sujet

[Titanium Man]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Even renegade Shepard is willing to trade her life for humanity, undertaking a suicide mission through the Omega-4 relay, so it's clearly not some deep-seated antipathy to other beings but rather a ruthless, ends-justify-means soldier tasked with the hardest job ever.

Taking Morinth over Samara is spitting on a Marine officer's willingness to sacrifice, trading your eventual confrontation with Samara in favor of Morinth eventually death-humping one or more of your crew. Cowards, the lot.

That's how I always imagined a Renegade Shepard.  He's just a hardass, not a sociopath.

[Ninniach Lina]

If you are renegade enough she says something along the lines of, 'If I were not bound by my oath to you, I would kill  you. If we ever meet again after this mission I will kill you.' Seems like renegade shep isn't just randomly murdering.

[pprrff]

Why has no one mentioned Nef? I would kill Morinth for what she did regardless whether Samara is right or not. It is as simple as Morinth deserves to die more than Samara.

[DPSSOC]

wulf3n wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

If you are Renegade Shep then is smart to kill her so she doesn't try to kill you in ME3.

What can you do as a Renegade that would make her have to kill you?

Punch that reporter, shoot Conrad, assist Garrus in murder, the list goes on.  The problem with asking, "What could you possibly do that would make her kill you?" is that we don't know her entire code (or what would violate that code) but it doesn't take much.  Remember we're told that if someone tried to bribe her she'd have to kill them.

[Christmas Ape]

The problem with asking, "What could you possibly do that would make her kill you?" is that we don't know her entire code (or what would violate that code) but it doesn't take much. Remember we're told that if someone tried to bribe her she'd have to kill them.

Both that and her sad insistence she'll be forced to kill Ilium police after a day in custody suggests that the code brooks no interference, impediment, or other attempt to prevent a Justicar from the fulfillment of her duties. Released from her oath to Shepard, not taking her to the world of her choosing as fast as your ship can get her there could be a death sentence.

Modifié par Christmas Ape, 23 juillet 2010 - 06:34 .

[Titanium Man]

pprrff wrote...

Why has no one mentioned Nef? I would kill Morinth for what she did regardless whether Samara is right or not. It is as simple as Morinth deserves to die more than Samara.

Exactly.  Who's the greatest monster here - someone who only kills those who would cause evil in the universe (subjective as this code may be) or someone who kills just because they could?

[lyssalu]

Titanium Man wrote...

Shandepared wrote...
Paladin? No she's a murderous vigilante. You have the option to recruit Morinth because if Shepard resists her attempt to seduce him he apparently can decide that Morinth is more powerufl and will be more useful to him. That's what Shepard says if you choose her, after all.

Certainly the choice came as a surprise to me though.

What guidelines does Shepard go by to determine this?  He's got no proof.  All he knows is that Morinith has crazy hypno-eyes.  That COULD be a useful ability, but again, this leads back to the "will she backstab me or not" question.  Quite frankly, Renegade Shep has to be a moron if he flies with this without considering it.

i would guess that shep's basis comes from the fact that morinth was able to outrun samara for hundreds of years despite her mother's power and wit - she was also evenly matched against samara, with shepard being the only person who could resolve their stalemate.  they are equally powerful, and morinth has the ability to mind control her victims.

shepard probably doesn't feel that she's a threat because (s)he can resist her attempts at brain washing him/her.  that and i think rene!shep has kind of a god complex.

[lyssalu]

Titanium Man wrote...

pprrff wrote...

Why has no one mentioned Nef? I would kill Morinth for what she did regardless whether Samara is right or not. It is as simple as Morinth deserves to die more than Samara.

Exactly.  Who's the greatest monster here - someone who only kills those who would cause evil in the universe (subjective as this code may be) or someone who kills just because they could?

morinth kills because it is a function of her being - she can't fight what she inherently is.  she's kind of a victim to herself.  samara, however, kills because she can and wants to, as well as because she believes that her morality is something that others should bend to.  neither are ethical in regards to life, so a better argument to pose would be that it's better to extinguish the greater threat.  in this case, that would be morinth.

[Terraneaux]

lyssalu wrote...

morinth kills because it is a function of her being - she can't fight what she inherently is.  she's kind of a victim to herself.  samara, however, kills because she can and wants to, as well as because she believes that her morality is something that others should bend to.  neither are ethical in regards to life, so a better argument to pose would be that it's better to extinguish the greater threat.  in this case, that would be morinth.

Morinth still has a choice as to whether or not to kill.  They're both killers, just one of them is more likely to forcibly try to kill Shep.  Morinth won't off Shep unless Shep has a moment of weakness and tries to have sex with her.  

[asaiasai]

The whole situation in a nut shell si, Morinth will probably try to kill you whether you deserve it or not as the only thing standing between her freedom. I have to agree that IF Samara comes up to you at the end of the game and informs your Shepard that she will have to kill you, odds are real good that you probably deserve it, but at least there is a certain integrity to it all. Plus as a MILF hunter Samara is right up my alley Ardak Yakshi or not lol.



Asai

[wulf3n]

DPSSOC wrote...

Punch that reporter, shoot Conrad, assist Garrus in murder.

She's done worse than that!
Whats a punch in the face between old acquaintances.
don't you just shoot Conrad in the foot? technically your saving his life.
Murdering a Murderer is exactly what Samara does.

You know i'm thinking it's better to kill off Samara, and recruit Morinth, as they're both Psychopathic, except you could keep Morinth on a short leash if you needed.

[NephilimNexus]

faeriehunter wrote...

Not every Shepard is a shining paragon. If you do enough things that Samara disapproves of, then when you talk to her on the Normandy she'll tell you that without the constraint of her code she'd have killed you already.

Then Morinth fights Samara into a stalemate, showing they're both equally powerful, and offers to come with you instead of Samara. Who do you choose, the justicar who will kill you as soon her code (of which you know virtually nothing) allows it, or her daughter, who will owe you for getting rid of her nemesis?

Exactly!   Ten seconds after ME2 ends...

Samara: "Congradulations Shepard, you have defeated the Collectors and Harbringer.  Along the way you picked up a bloodthirsty amoral mercenary (Zaeed), a thief (Kasumi), a drell assassin (Thane), a Geth (Legion) and the galaxy's most wanted terrorist (Jack).  Oh, and you're working for Cerberus.  Prepare to die!"

At least if Morinth kills you after the mission is complete it will be a fun way to go. 

 

[PWENER]

I know I just entered this topic, but Shepard is forced to do all the things he did in ME3. Mine doesn't have that problem.

[Nightwriter]

Paragon Shepard has no reason to pick Morinth.

Renegade Shepard has countless reasons.

[Christmas Ape]

Nightwriter wrote...

Renegade Shepard has countless reasons.

Which boil down to "cowardice" or "only way to execute two dangerous asari", near as I can tell.

[tmk]

PWENER wrote...
I know I just entered this topic, but Shepard is forced to do all the things he did in ME3. Mine doesn't have that problem.

What does this I don't even...

Nightwriter wrote...
Paragon Shepard has no reason to pick Morinth.

Well, to play devil's advocate here... for starters, she's being oppressed for something that's not her fault. She can manipulate her victims, but from what I understand, they have to more or less want to submit - i.e. she can't just force mind control you (except when she uses Dominate, but I suspect that's just a game mechanic - because frankly the ability makes no sense and essentially contradicts ME lore). She claims that her victims experience heavenly extasy right before they die (though I think she only says that after you save her). She apparently not just kills, but also absorbs the victim's personality.

I suppose a crazy enough Paragon with inclination towards mysticism, fatalism, and similar fancy words could see Morinth as a tragic and misunderstood character. I wouldn't even be surprised if in ME3 there's a path to Paragon-redeem her. It's all kinda flaky but, well, it's a possibility.

[Christmas Ape]

Shandepared wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...
Which boil down to "cowardice" or "only way to execute two dangerous asari", near as I can tell.

I call it pragmatism.

Cowards with delusions of moral strength usually do.

[wulf3n]

Christmas Ape wrote...
Which boil down to "cowardice" or "only way to execute two dangerous asari", near as I can tell.

how so?

[Christmas Ape]

tmk wrote...

i.e. she can't just force mind control you (except when she uses Dominate, but I suspect that's just a game mechanic - because frankly the ability makes no sense and essentially contradicts ME lore).

I disagree.

- The asari are natural biotics with a nervous system capable of linking with that of another species, a capability enhanced and altered by the ardat-yakshi mutation.

- The derelict Reaper, whose only operational component is the mass effect core, caused indoctrination-like effects in the Cerberus research team.



From these, it's a valid hypothesis that indoctrination is partially induced by mass effect fields - which naturally biotic species could easily project - and that Dominate is fundamentally similar to a short-range, short-term indoctrination. It's possible that it relies on the ardat-yakshi mutation to be able to force the nervous system linkage, but that remains unknown.



It makes no sense for Shepard to have it as a bonus power, but that's true of all sorts of possible bonus powers (Engineer with Barrier, etc). Now Reave, Reave makes no damn sense at all. Mass Effect fields have been shown to have mental impact, but not vampirism.

[PWENER]

Christmas Ape wrote...

tmk wrote...
i.e. she can't just force mind control you (except when she uses Dominate, but I suspect that's just a game mechanic - because frankly the ability makes no sense and essentially contradicts ME lore).

I disagree.
- The asari are natural biotics with a nervous system capable of linking with that of another species, a capability enhanced and altered by the ardat-yakshi mutation.
- The derelict Reaper, whose only operational component is the mass effect core, caused indoctrination-like effects in the Cerberus research team.

From these, it's a valid hypothesis that indoctrination is partially induced by mass effect fields - which naturally biotic species could easily project - and that Dominate is fundamentally similar to a short-range, short-term indoctrination. It's possible that it relies on the ardat-yakshi mutation to be able to force the nervous system linkage, but that remains unknown.

It makes no sense for Shepard to have it as a bonus power, but that's true of all sorts of possible bonus powers (Engineer with Barrier, etc). Now Reave, Reave makes no damn sense at all. Mass Effect fields have been shown to have mental impact, but not vampirism.

BIOWARE dropped the bonus balls...

[Nightwriter]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Renegade Shepard has countless reasons.

Which boil down to "cowardice" or "only way to execute two dangerous asari", near as I can tell.

Something like that. I see renegade Shepard's reasoning as something like:

1.) Samara is a threat. She might kill you later on.

2.) Morinth will owe you. Thus you have more leverage on her. She's easier to control.

3.) A renegade Shepard knows how bad people operate. Renegade Shepard might like keeping Morinth around more because she's a known evil and renegade Shepard knows and is more comfortable around evil.

4.) What the hell, Morinth's more interesting, renShep never liked Samara anyway, annoying.

5.) Morinth has her own type of indoctrination of sorts, which is now at your disposal to use on your enemies.

6.) Any time you want to get rid of someone you can just feed them to Morinth.

7.) Morinth is more cunning and deceitful than Samara, which are probably traits renShep will value more highly. Thus, renShep will find her more useful.

It's so cheery thinking like renShep, isn't it?