260 réponses à ce sujet

[addiction21]

Rulian wrote...

The more SC comes off as fantasy then the more it comes as a DOW40k ripoff.

I am kinda at a loss for words. Would you care to elaborate a little on that?

Both have aliens a scifi staple.
Power armor another scifi staple.
Laser again scifi to the limit.

[newbie39nuker]

Sago_mulch wrote...

i heard starcraft 2 is simply a crappy, overrated rehash of the old one. i cannot trust gaming journalists because they are either indoctrinated fanboys or are being paid by activision-blizzard for their opinion.

so now i come to rely on my biowear bruthas, what is starcraft 2 like? give me a really honest review. a short one.

As gamers pointer view and have test it.. I really really found the whole SC2 campaign entertaining, excellent cinematography and audio and the greatest real-time strategy game of all time. Well I just found No LAN ability and no chatroom for players, I wonder will they future this is future including the voice chat. As per record, SC2 break the record of WOW: WotLK being sold 1M copies in the first 24hrs of release and no doubt’s being the fastest selling strategy game.

[Revan312]

addiction21 wrote...

Rulian wrote...

The more SC comes off as fantasy then the more it comes as a DOW40k ripoff.

I am kinda at a loss for words. Would you care to elaborate a little on that?

Both have aliens a scifi staple.
Power armor another scifi staple.
Laser again scifi to the limit.

But Starcraft IS a DOW 40k ripoff..

Space marines = Terrans
Tyranids = Zerg, the designs of which are almost exactly like the Tyranids down to the coloring.
Eldar = Protoss as far as general design and concentration on "psych" abilities goes.

DoW 40k came out in 1987, 11 years before Starcraft so it's safe to say that they pretty much copied DOW 40k without much doubt, especially after you know that Games Workshop was going to make a videogame variant of their table top Warhammer Fantasy game and pulled out, then Blizz went ahead and made it, changed some things and released Warcraft in 94 which caused both companies to have a sort of falling out... GW sued Blizz but it was thrown out and low and behold, 4 years later, Blizz makes StarCraft, a clone of 40k in design and flavor...

StarCraft is still better though, as a videogame, and it also has a better story as DOW 40k is a cluster **** of intertwining story arcs and a list of characters that puts LOTR to shame... It's so confusing...

[addiction21]

Really?



Space Marines (a tiny fraction of the actual human population present in the 40k universe) = the entire human race from Starcraft? Or are you just being picky and jumping on that because they both have soliders called "marines" that wear powered armor?

Even tho in one setting those marines are highly trained and genectily modified soliders that wear armor centuries old and that is described as being able to with stand attacks that would destroy most tanks and, on the other hand you have marines that are convicts drafted into service wearing armor that is easily pierced by many weapons. Should I also mention the gothic and religious aspects of the 40k world and are almost non-exsistent in SC2?

Tyranids and zerg. Well you might as well say they both stole that from James Camorns Aliens and in turn he "stole" or "ripped off" from Love craft.

Protoss and Eldar. Ya because its SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO uncommon in a scifi setting to have a race that is older and more advanced then the humans in that setting...



Am I to believe that we should start throwing mud and BioWare because Blizzard was around first and used the letter B? Your all jumping on the tiniest of similarites and accusing of group a of stealing from group b.



Try this. Grab your shoulders and pull as hard as you can. When your head is removed from your ass and you have wiped the brown from your eyes it will be clear that there is far more differences in these franchises that set them apart then going "OMG THEY BOTH HAVE ORCS SO THEY RIPPED OFF TOLKEN" (who I guessed ripped of orcs and elves from the ancient myths instead of drawing inspiration from them).

[Revan312]

addiction21 wrote...

Really?

Space Marines (a tiny fraction of the actual human population present in the 40k universe) = the entire human race from Starcraft? Or are you just being picky and jumping on that because they both have soliders called "marines" that wear powered armor?
Even tho in one setting those marines are highly trained and genectily modified soliders that wear armor centuries old and that is described as being able to with stand attacks that would destroy most tanks and, on the other hand you have marines that are convicts drafted into service wearing armor that is easily pierced by many weapons. Should I also mention the gothic and religious aspects of the 40k world and are almost non-exsistent in SC2?
Tyranids and zerg. Well you might as well say they both stole that from James Camorns Aliens and in turn he "stole" or "ripped off" from Love craft.
Protoss and Eldar. Ya because its SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO uncommon in a scifi setting to have a race that is older and more advanced then the humans in that setting...

Am I to believe that we should start throwing mud and BioWare because Blizzard was around first and used the letter B? Your all jumping on the tiniest of similarites and accusing of group a of stealing from group b.

Try this. Grab your shoulders and pull as hard as you can. When your head is removed from your ass and you have wiped the brown from your eyes it will be clear that there is far more differences in these franchises that set them apart then going "OMG THEY BOTH HAVE ORCS SO THEY RIPPED OFF TOLKEN" (who I guessed ripped of orcs and elves from the ancient myths instead of drawing inspiration from them).

Whoa, tiny bit defensive there aye

I was just pointing out that yep, because of their history and the mass amount of similarities between the two franchises that one "stole" from the other... Really Zerg ARE the Tyranids, to the point of only having a different name, they look exactly the same, have the exact same sort of backround and story and use the exact same tactics.  Alien was an inspiration for sure, as was Starship Troopers but the pure look is uncanny between the two races and when you learn the history between Games Workshop and Blizzard you can see quite clearly that Blizz ripped off 40k wholey and completely.. (Blizz ---> Games Workshop --->)

Like I said though, it doesn't bother me as StarCraft is a better game and has a better story so I enjoy it more, but seriously, your the one that needs to remove your noggin from your rear as nobody else gives much of a crap if they ripped em off or not, most just recognize that they did *shrug*

But you seem like the sort of person, and this is just a guess, that supports intellectual property even though you went off on a tirade about SC taking inspiration from 40k but not "stealing" facets and ideas from them.. maybe you don't, but you strike me as such for some reason..

Modifié par Revan312, 05 août 2010 - 07:11 .

[Loerwyn]

Revan312 wrote...

But Starcraft IS a DOW 40k ripoff..

How can a 1998 game rip off a game that came out 6 years later?

I see your point, but I wouldn't say it's a rip off. I'd say it takes some inspiration from 40k.

[Burdokva]

Don't you people know that Blizzard's "Orcs and Humans" (WarCraft I) was originally planned and developed as a WarHammer game? It was only later reworked as a, ahem, original story, after GamesWorkshop refused to give them the license. I like both War- and Starcraft, ever since the mid-90s, but to say they are anything but a blatant rip off (or very, very heavily inspired by, to say it mildly) by Warhammer fantasy and 40K is just a lie. Mind you, I'm talking purely about the art design, all else excluded.

[Revan312]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Revan312 wrote...

But Starcraft IS a DOW 40k ripoff..

How can a 1998 game rip off a game that came out 6 years later?

I see your point, but I wouldn't say it's a rip off. I'd say it takes some inspiration from 40k.

I was talking about the tabletop game from GW, which the Blizz guys at the time said was a game they loved...

Burdokva wrote...

Don't you people know that Blizzard's "Orcs and Humans" (WarCraft I) was originally planned and developed as a WarHammer game? It was only later reworked as a, ahem, original story, after GamesWorkshop refused to give them the license. I like both War- and Starcraft, ever since the mid-90s, but to say they are anything but a blatant rip off (or very, very heavily inspired by, to say it mildly) by Warhammer fantasy and 40K is just a lie. Mind you, I'm talking purely about the art design, all else excluded.

This ^

[Costin_Razvan]

Really Zerg ARE the Tyranids, to the point of only having a different name, they look exactly the same, have the exact same sort of backround and story and use the exact same tactics. Alien was an inspiration for sure, as was Starship Troopers but the pure look is uncanny between the two races and when you learn the history between Games Workshop and Blizzard you can see quite clearly that Blizz ripped off 40k wholey and completely..

I would daresay that Starcraft is far more based on Starship Troopers then it is based on Warhammer 40 k ( and btw Warhammer IS based on Starship Troopers ), now no offence but while the Protoss are quite similar to the Tau the Terrans are far more like the Terran Federation then a cross between Space Marines and Imperial guard, and the Zerg ( especially with the Hive Structure ) resemble the Bugs from ST then they do the Tyranids.

[GnusmasTHX]

Yes yes. We all know StarCraft takes inspiration from Warhammer 40K. (And P.S: Dawn of War as a franchise wasn't established until years after the release of StarCraft, not calling it "Dawn of Warhammer 40K" might help with the anachronistic arguments concerning Warhammer 40K proper and Dawn of War.)



Blizzard took a handful of concepts, unoriginal to begin with, and went in their own direction.



If their connection weren't made so obvious by previous failed endeavors between GamesWorkShop and Blizzard, then this discussion would be just another "X looks like Y".

[Revan312]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I would daresay that Starcraft is far more based on Starship Troopers then it is based on Warhammer 40 k ( and btw Warhammer IS based on Starship Troopers ), now no offence but while the Protoss are quite similar to the Tau the Terrans are far more like the Terran Federation then a cross between Space Marines and Imperial guard, and the Zerg ( especially with the Hive Structure ) resemble the Bugs from ST then they do the Tyranids.

Tyranid -

Zerg -

Tyranid - file:///C:/Users/Halcyon/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[img]file:///C:/Users/Halcyon/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.png[img]http://gallery.koehls.de/albums/warhammer/tyraniden-carnifex3.jpg

Zerg - [img]http://th00.deviantart.net/fs45/PRE/f/2009/082/2/3/Zergling_II_by_Mr__Jack.jpg[/img]


Space Marine - [img]http://i45.tinypic.com/v46t0k.jpg[/img]

Terran Marine - [img]http://starcraft.incgamers.com/gallery/data/512/medium/021_Marine_Concept_4.jpg[/img]

I still think that SC pretty much ripped off the art design of the tyranids and space marines, they look extremely similar with only slight differences.

Regardless, like I said, SC is a better franchise even with the fairly obvious "inspiration" from Warhammer 40k

Modifié par Revan312, 05 août 2010 - 10:05 .

[Costin_Razvan]

True enough for the art for the marines ( though if you check the animated series for Starship Troopers, you will see the similarities between Bugs and Zerg ), but you said the Zerg and Tyranids have the same story, which is not true.



Everyone steals or get's inspired by idea in other novels/games....doesn't mean Blizzard didn't add quite a lot of their own touch their races though, cause they did.

[yslee]

Blizzard RTSes are not my favourite. Personally I don't think they're innovative, especially since I tend to do multiplayer. I'm sure it'll sell well thanks to all the fanboys, but really, Blizzard's model is 10 years old or so.

[Costin_Razvan]

You mean casual multiplayer or hardcore multiplayer? Cause there is a massive difference between the two.



As someone who goes with Hardcore Multiplayer, I vastly prefer Blizzard's High Quality Balance with almost no lag on their servers ( usually that is ) and the fact their games run on a vast number of PCs, over innovation.



And 5 million Korean players agree with that.

[Rubbish Hero]

I would have liked to see them implement more stuff like Company Of heroes. Entire maps are destructible. Wall cover can be used e.t.c... and in a good  way, not the lame console type were you peak out a wall and shoot fish
in a barrel.  Still, while the actual GAME is better than anything Relic has put out in recent years, it destroys Dawn Of War II regardless of features.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 06 août 2010 - 02:44 .

[GnusmasTHX]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

I would have liked to see them implement more stuff like Company Of heroes. Entire maps are destructible. Wall cover can be used e.t.c... and in a good  way, not the lame console type were you peak out a wall and shoot fish
in a barrel.  Still, while the actual GAME is better than anything Relic has put out in recent years, it destroys Dawn Of War II regardless of features.

They're entirely two different types of RTS. It's like complaining that Counter-Strike isn't more like ArmA. Counter-Strike isn't supposed to be like ArmA, and StarCraft 2 isn't supposed to be like CoH.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 06 août 2010 - 07:37 .

[Rubbish Hero]

GnusmasTHX wrote...They're entirely two different types of RTS. It's like complaining that Counter-Strike isn't more like ArmA. Counter-Strike isn't supposed to be like ArmA, and StarCraft 2 isn't supposed to be like CoH.

No they aren't, Company Of Heroes still very much uses tech tree's and difference race types exactly like Starcraft II. Features from Company Of Heroes could quite easily be implemented into starcraft II without changing the fundamental gameplay.

[GnusmasTHX]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...They're entirely two different types of RTS. It's like complaining that Counter-Strike isn't more like ArmA. Counter-Strike isn't supposed to be like ArmA, and StarCraft 2 isn't supposed to be like CoH.

No they aren't, Company Of Heroes still very much uses tech tree's and difference race types exactly like Starcraft II. Features from Company Of Heroes could quite easily be implemented into starcraft II without changing the fundamental gameplay.

Yeah, they are. CoH limits you to the Doctrine and Command Tree you choose in a match. In StarCraft, everything for your race is available to you in a single match. Everything. And "different race types"?... That's racist.
** Also notice how I said they're two different RTS games? Obviously they'll both have the staples of the RTS genre, hence staple. Just like Counter-Strike and ArmA both have guns. But the guns and how they handle are different. Just like the difference with CoH's doctrines/command trees and StarCraft 2's.

The pace of StarCraft is way too quick for cover, behind walls and in craters etc. StarCraft 2 is built with this fast pace in mind, cover only slows you down and directs your forces, which by the way, are probably too large for any cover seen in  CoH, to certain areas. Unless there's a crater that can fit 20 marines, and 15 marauders or maybe 30 Stalkers and Hydra's on every map.

And most importantly, damage is calculated directly (excluding activated abilities), whereas in CoH, there's a percent hit and miss that precludes whether or not you will do damage in the first place, not only allowing for cover, elevation and flank to even be used, but also the main reason it's there (gameplay wise).
The maps are built to accommodate SC2's bunch of units and fast paced model. Do you really think cover and bunkering in two story buildings will help when the game itself is made so that 10 siege tanks are available to you within 5 minutes, and battlecruisers in 7?  Especially when a marine can run from one end to the other in 1 minute. There's also naturally less emphasis on CoH's features when you're objective is not to hold strategic points.

More so, many of the Protoss and Zerg units won't even use cover. Terran is exclusively the only race to not have ANY melee units.

Lastly Blizzard's plan with StarCraft 2 online was to have new units, a few changes (LOS, HY) but ultimately the same formula from the beginning. So as to not detract avid fans of the original, but at the same time not just upgrade the engine and make SC1.2.

In short; StarCraft 2 is fundamentally a fast pace game, adding cover which slows the game down changes the fundamental gameplay. class dismissed.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 06 août 2010 - 08:37 .

[Rubbish Hero]

GnusmasTHX wrote... misc features snip

Exactly, fundamentally the same with minor differences. The comparison between Counterstrike and Arma II is a poor one, one is extremely slow paced  and the other fast paced. Neither Company Of heroes, Dawn Of War II, or
Starcraft II are slow paced. The Arma II comparison would be better suited for Total War, not Company Of Heroes.

GnusmasTHX wrote...In short; StarCraft 2 is fundamentally a fast pace game, adding cover which slows the

Doesn't dismiss the point at all as wall cover is not a constant and resource gathering slows the game down far more. In  actuality, Dawn Of War II is faster paced in multiplayer than the average Starcraft II match just due to the fact there is a lack of  resource gathering.  The point still stands, the features of destructibility and wall cover could easily be added without impeding the fundamental formula. I am right, we are moving on.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 06 août 2010 - 09:25 .

[GnusmasTHX]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote... misc features snip

Exactly, fundamentally the same with minor differences. The comparison between Counterstrike and Arma II is a poor one, one is extremely slow paced  and the other fast paced. Neither Company Of heroes, Dawn Of War II, or
Starcraft II are slow paced. The Arma II comparison would be better suited for Total War, not Company Of Heroes.

GnusmasTHX wrote...In short; StarCraft 2 is fundamentally a fast pace game, adding cover which slows the

Doesn't dismiss the point at all as wall cover is not a constant and resource gathering slows the game down far more. In  actuality, Dawn Of War II is faster paced in multiplayer than the average Starcraft II match just due to the fact there is a lack of  resource gathering.  The point still stands, the features of destructibility and wall cover could easily be added without impeding the fundamental formula. I am right, we are moving on.

Actually they are slow paced, in comparison to SC2. I've played all three games online competitively before, SC2 is by far the fastest game. The only way a 1v1 in SC2 would last longer than in DoW2 is if you had two noobs playing.

The comparison between ArmA and CS goes beyond just pace. The reason ArmA is slower than CS is because it focuses on the tactical element of shooters, cover, range, flanking, just like CoH focuses on the same elements but for an RTS. CS and SC2 do not, nor do they want or try to. They fill an entirely different niche than ArmA and CoH, while still being of the same genre.

SC2 does not want to be like CoH. Saying, "I want more features from CoH in SC2" is like saying, "I want iron-sights in Counter-Strike: Source." Great, you want it. Doesn't mean that that particular gameplay mechanic will fit the game at all, and regardless of what you think, both iron sights and cover do change the gameplay of CS:S and SC2 respectively.

Sorry, but seeing a Marine peek from one side of the wall and off a zergling is a fundamental change in gameplay. The only way the implementation of a cover system wouldn't affect the fundamental gameplay is if no one used it, ever.

 Cover does change the fundamental gameplay. SC2 units just don't take cover. They don't. That's the way the game is. It's built on the same tried and true formula from SC1, BW and even WC3 and TFT. The game itself doesn't accommodate cover, certain units wouldn't/couldn't use it, half the units are air, the maps are too small, the units too fast, it wouldn't make sense like CoH because it's (relatively) realistic unlike SC2 where units are not to scale (Marines and Hydras can't use the same cover, if hydras would use it at all.). Adding and using cover changes  the way the gameplay is. Therefore, you are wrong. class dismissed again. Now that you've gotten learn'd, I feel like a wizard. 

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 06 août 2010 - 10:00 .

[Rubbish Hero]

I'm not reading this, we have moved on.

[GnusmasTHX]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

I'm not reading this, we have moved on.

You silly, I already know you have. And I also know that while doing so you whole-heartedly agreed with my statements.

I'm glad we could reach an understanding, especially when I can subvert someone else's absurdity. Never fear, I'm sure I can enlighten you on more as your mind matures into adulthood, slowly but surely shaping you into a fine member of the community. After all, you children are our future.:innocent:

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 06 août 2010 - 10:28 .

[Rulian]

addiction21 wrote...

Rulian wrote...

The more SC comes off as fantasy then the more it comes as a DOW40k ripoff.

I am kinda at a loss for words. Would you care to elaborate a little on that?

Both have aliens a scifi staple.
Power armor another scifi staple.
Laser again scifi to the limit.

Science fiction is based more on extrapolation, fantasy is not.  Using certain plot devices like prophesies, ye chosen one or "the gods" all lean heavily toward fantasy and has been used more than once in DoW40k.  In the original story, Blizzard very cleverly rationalized or evaded these pit falls and still held true to the memes that formed the foundation of science fiction to distinguish it from the DoW40k science fanstasy theme.  If you want, I can go into detail on how this was accomplished.

I still haven't had the time to fully finish the campaign yet so maybe this observation is still very premature.  :innocent:

Modifié par Rulian, 09 août 2010 - 06:04 .

[Gaxhung]

StarCraft II's Zombie Apocalypse Mod Looks Like A Winner
http://kotaku.com/56...-ac130k- -ruins

[DukeOfNukes]

The art is actually kind of comical in both DoW2 and SC2...I mean...the characters are in no way anatomically correct. Wearing a suit of armor with shoulders that wide would mean that there is about a 12 inch gap between the socket and where the bone is. I've never TRIED shooting a gun with a dislocated shoulder, but I'm assuming it's probably not very fun :-P



Also, let me just state that SC2 is TERRIBLE for custom games. It's prone to excruciating amounts of lag, and the FPS drops are miserable. Maps that ran with no issues in WC3 that have been ported into SC2 are barely playable.



AND...the screen for joining custom games is retarded. I can appreciate the intent for most of it, but unfortunately it's all going to have the opposite effect.

1. Instead getting an error message for trying to join a full game, it starts a new game. Great, until you start getting hosts that don't know what they are doing. I think the intent here is to limit the amount of times a certain game shows up...but how long before it's just different types of DOTA?

2. Auto starting a game...I mean, really? What if I wanted a spot for my friend, If the game fills up, my only option is to leave, causing a 3v4.

3. A 30 second time. What difference does it make? 5 seconds or 30, you're still going to have leavers.

4. The menu system to create a game is no good. WC3 and SC1 were simple: you find the file, and then host it. Now you have to track it down, based on its popularity or how long ago you played it.

5. When joining a custom game, it will show you the top 10 most popular...then, to get any more, you have to hit a button, and then scroll down. Might seem like a minor inconvenience...but based on my experience so far...it just makes it take even longer to get a full game going on.