109 réponses à ce sujet

[Artemis_Entrari]

R.U.N wrote...

You know, how about a pratagonist that's not ''awesome'', ''cool'' or ''badass'', but a more realistic more kinda novel type approach.
I certainly would enjoy playing a more human character instead of a carbon copy action hero.

This.

I'm not saying the character has to be some weakling that stumbles around and accidentally does stuff, but I get instantly turned off when I hear stuff like "most powerful ever" or "greatest warrior in history" or the like.

[Stanley Woo]

filetemo wrote...
Why does a man who fleed from the blight DESERVE to become the most influent being on the world?
Why does a man who didn't participate in destroying the evil power who could destroy the world have a place in history higher than those who fought bravely?
Why does hawke get the glory when my warden fades silently in history books when he did no good and fleed?
Why does a man who did NOTHING to fight the archdemon have the right to shape thedas?
How I'm going to get involved with the story of a man's rise to his own power when others are doing the epic tasks at the same time?
How can I care about a man who seeks power for himself when I just took part in the story of a hero who saved the world?

I think all your concerns can be answered with three ideas.

1. You'll have to play the game to find out.
2. Things can happen in more than one place simultaneously.
3. You are allowed to experience more than one thing in your life.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Chairon de Celeste wrote...

makes me wonder how any da o  warden with a circle mage origin managed
to get along after being sheltered in a library for 15 -19 years or more in a library...

My Warden got along fine   But she was a stubborn little spitfire, and she was also young enough at 20 to still believe in her own invincibility...until about Redcliffe or so.

See, the badassery of any RPG PC depends partially on what kind of character the player wants to make.  Player agency can take any background, no matter how sheltered or humble, and turn that character into a BAMF who beats up dragons, sleeps with bastard princes, and gets back to camp in time to bake cookies with Sten.

Player agency can also take cool backgrounds and turn the PC into a whining prat.  The number of incredibly emo Shepards in fanfiction comes to mind, though part of that might be due to author skill as well 

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 22 juillet 2010 - 07:54 .

[PoisonTheCity]

I seriously don't get this whole 'Hawke is a coward for fleeing Lothering' mentality. What exactly would he accomplish by staying to fight? There's a darkspawn horde approaching which has numbers in the thousands. Not even our mighty Grey Warden took on the entire horde at once.

If you call Hawke a coward for not staying to defend Lothering, to me that's as logical as calling a Cousland a coward for not staying to defend their home from Howe, or calling Amell/Surana a coward for not resisting the templars as a kid, or Mahariel for not ignoring their sickness and helping their clan move north, and Aeducan/Tabris/Brosca for not resisting arrest or facing the consequences etc. Sure, one could argue that they had reason (becoming a Grey Warden) to leave, but they couldn't know then what a pivotal part they would play in ending the Blight.

Besides, if Hawke did stay to mindlessly defend Lothering, he would have been abandoning his/her sister or sentencing her to death, too. That makes him seem like a ****** with a deathwish. Not only that, it would make DA2 a rather short, uninteresting game. Meet Bethany -> take on horde -> mace to the skull 5 mins in-> game over, you've died trying to defend your country and made NO difference at all! :happy:

/rant.

[filetemo]

Stanley Woo wrote...

2. Things can happen in more than one place simultaneously.

Now we're heading somewhere. If this assumption implies Hawke did indeed try to stop darkspawn on his own at any point of the story, that's good enough for me. If it also implied some of the actions of hawke affected some of the things that happened at origins and helped the warden somehow, that would be indeed awesome, this forwards-backwards feedback between dao and da2 would be great.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

First off, it's "fled", not "fleed"



Second, you don't even know the story yet. Based on screenshots and the scant information we have so far, its plain he's in Lothering at the beginning of the game, FIGHTING. I suspect he leaves with Flemeth's help after Lothering is already lost. Why, well, we'll have to play the game to find out. It's a bit silly to assume he's a coward at this stage.



Seriously.. calm down and have more of an open mind.

[Lord Gremlin]

Behindyounow wrote...

The simple fact that Hawke didn't bother trying to save Ferelden makes me like him more.

I hate the stupid "I WILL SAVE THE LAND BECAUSE IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO" kind of people, and dislike being forced to be at least be a "Meh... I guess I'll save the land if I get payed" kind of person as well in DA:O.

I want to play a character that'll say "Sod the bloody country. I only care about me, so I'm jumping ship." Thankfully, it looks like I might be able to play Hawke as one of them.

Hm, actually with this I agree. Being forced to save the world just pisses me off. I honestly prefer  RPGs with things such as: "So, now we raid the orphanage, slaughter the children and sell their blood to this insane mage in the swamp and his pet demon - they promised 1000 sovereigns per 10 children."

[Tirigon]

OP is goddamn right.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

filetemo wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

2. Things can happen in more than one place simultaneously.

Now we're heading somewhere. If this assumption implies Hawke did indeed try to stop darkspawn on his own at any point of the story, that's good enough for me. If it also implied some of the actions of hawke affected some of the things that happened at origins and helped the warden somehow, that would be indeed awesome, this forwards-backwards feedback between dao and da2 would be great.

You should check out all the screenshots out of hawke and his sister fighting darkspawn.

[R.U.N]

Behindyounow wrote...

I want to play a character that'll say "Sod the bloody country. I only care about me, so I'm jumping ship." Thankfully, it looks like I might be able to play Hawke as one of them.

Not going to happen in a BioWare game though.
Their games tend to be more linear and story-driven then say Bethesdas open world sandbox games.
You cannot escape the Plot.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Lord Gremlin wrote...

Behindyounow wrote...

The simple fact that Hawke didn't bother trying to save Ferelden makes me like him more.

I hate the stupid "I WILL SAVE THE LAND BECAUSE IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO" kind of people, and dislike being forced to be at least be a "Meh... I guess I'll save the land if I get payed" kind of person as well in DA:O.

I want to play a character that'll say "Sod the bloody country. I only care about me, so I'm jumping ship." Thankfully, it looks like I might be able to play Hawke as one of them.

Hm, actually with this I agree. Being forced to save the world just pisses me off. I honestly prefer  RPGs with things such as: "So, now we raid the orphanage, slaughter the children and sell their blood to this insane mage in the swamp and his pet demon - they promised 1000 sovereigns per 10 children."

See, that's the nice thing about Hawke.  We know Hawke changed the world profoundly.  We know that Cassandra is desperate to learn more about why it's teetering on the brink of war.  But Hawke can change the world for better or for worse, depending on the player's actions.  That's cool.

I'm pulling for worse 

[filetemo]

In fact, dark fantasy is about trying to do the greater good and screwing up badly and probably dying in the process.Whoever wants to be a chaotic evil character should play Fable or GTA

[Special_Agent_Goodwrench]

R.U.N wrote...

Behindyounow wrote...

I want to play a character that'll say "Sod the bloody country. I only care about me, so I'm jumping ship." Thankfully, it looks like I might be able to play Hawke as one of them.

Not going to happen in a BioWare game though.
Their games tend to be more linear and story-driven then say Bethesdas open world sandbox games.
You cannot escape the Plot.

True that. The power of plot compels you!

[Aratham Darksight]

filetemo wrote...

The blight could've brought 200 years of hunger and death if not by the warden, he left lothering behind for the greater good, because of the recruiting an army mission. I feel like if somebody does not take part at all in the single most important battle in thedas, he does not deserve to be anybody important.That maybe is my personal opinion but I don't think I'm alone with this.

I find this a strange sentiment. You seem to be saying that a person only derserves to accomplish anything if they never make a bad decision at any point of their life. Even if we assume that Hawke fled Ferelden for the worst of reasons, she has a lifetime ahead of her to atone for it.

And looking at it more pragmatically, Hawke, being essentially Random Villager B at the time, had no way of knowing when and where the decisive battle against the Blight would be fought. The king's army is defeated, the Grey Wardens are said to be all dead, the country is tearing itself apart in civil war. By any reasonable estimate, it was looking like another decades-long Blight that will consume Ferelden whole, just as it did Lothering. What you accomplish in Origins is nothing short of miraculous and insanely lucky.

I recall David Gaider saying that even Duncan would have written off Ferelden as a lost cause, had he survived Ostagar.

Modifié par Aratham Darksight, 22 juillet 2010 - 08:14 .

[Merlinbird]

I am thinking DA2 is going to bite, I have created a couple very good characters that I was hoping to be able to take in the next expansion.....Does not look like that will happen...

[Sable Rhapsody]

Aratham Darksight wrote...

And looking at it more pragmatically, Hawke, being essentially Random Villager B at the time, had no way of knowing when and where the decisive battle against the Blight would be fought. The king's army is defeated, the Grey Wardens are said to be all dead, the country is tearing itself apart in civil war. By any reasonable estimate, it was looking like another decades-long Blight that will consume Ferelden whole, just as it did Lothering. What you accomplish in Origins is nothing short of miraculous and insanely lucky.

I recall David Gaider saying that even Duncan would have written off Ferelden as a lost cause, had he survived Ostagar.

Nicely said.  We the metagaming players know it'll all turn out ok--this is a video game, and the heroes (almost) always win.  But how is Hawke to know that?  Anyone in Lothering with a lick of sense and a pair of sturdy legs would have fled, and rightly so.  In fact, if my Warden had had the chance, she would have made the town a "GET THE F*** OUT YOU IDIOTS" speech.

[filetemo]

Aratham Darksight wrote...


I find this a strange sentiment. You seem to be saying that a person only derserves to accomplish anything if they never make a bad decision at any point of their life. Even if we assume that Hawke fled Ferelden for the worst of reasons, she has a lifetime ahead of her to atone for it.

And looking at it more pragmatically, Hawke, being essentially Random Villager B at the time, had no way of knowing when and where the decisive battle against the Blight would be fought. The king's army is defeated, the Grey Wardens are said to be all dead, the country is tearing itself apart in civil war. By any reasonable estimate, it was looking like another decades-long Blight that will consume Ferelden whole, just as it did Lothering. What you accomplish in Origins is nothing short of miraculous and insanely lucky.

I recall David Gaider saying that even Duncan would have written off Ferelden as a lost cause, had he survived Ostagar.

agree, but it would be fine if they didn't market hawke as "the most important man of thedas". So he goes from random villager B to the most important man in thedas in 10 years. While the ones who killed the archdemon while he was random villager B vanish whitout importance.

The problem, as other have pointed, is it's okay to say hawke will become important for his own actions, but this emperor-like status in less than 10 years is difficult to swallow. But after stanley woo's post of "things can happen in several places at the same time" I take that as a hint of the plot, so I'll hold my breath:O

we need more info, MOAR!

[Lord Gremlin]

filetemo wrote...

In fact, dark fantasy is about trying to do the greater good and screwing up badly and probably dying in the process.Whoever wants to be a chaotic evil character should play Fable or GTA

Dark Fantasy is just good old Fantasy with fancy pants and emo haircut.
And RPG, a good RPG, is about choices.
The thing is, methods may differ. For example, you must organize rebuilding of a city. It's a task at hand, and you just need it done.
You may spend money on workers, hire dwarf engineers, fetch some rare materials... Or you may strike a deal with a blood mage and his demon from the swamp - you bring them 20 newborn children (demon's favorite crunch) and they mind-control a whole village near the swamp, so you get free mind-enslaved workers for city rebuilding.

So - several hard quests and a lot of money wasted, or just 20 stolen babies fed to a demon and everything is done for you. Plus demon will upgrade your weapons with the power of blood if you fetch him 15 more babies per weapon - 10 as a payment and 5 as fuel for blood-magic enhanced lirium folding.

And the legend say: and mighty Hawke found good people and restore the city of Kirkwall to it's former glory.
Truth is, Hawke actually guilty of mass murder of Kirkwall children, but this person knew how to shut a mouth or cut a loose tongue.

[Sable Rhapsody]

filetemo wrote...

agree, but it would be fine if they didn't market hawke as "the most important man of thedas". So he goes from random villager B to the most important man in thedas in 10 years. While the ones who killed the archdemon while he was random villager B vanish whitout importance.

The problem, as other have pointed, is it's okay to say hawke will become important for his own actions, but this emperor-like status in less than 10 years is difficult to swallow. But after stanley woo's post of "things can happen in several places at the same time" I take that as a hint of the plot, so I'll hold my breath:O

we need more info, MOAR!

Napoleon went from Random Corsican B to the conqueror of Europe in a pretty short time period.  Partially because he managed to seize upon extraordinary circumstances.  On the other side of the scale, Archduke Franz Ferdinand became the most important man in Europe in 1914 after his assassination sparked World War I.  No one said Hawke was going the God-Emperor route.  Like others have said, Hawke could be important for the events s/he set into motion, not necessarily for him/herself.

[Rzepik2]

filetemo wrote...
Why does a man who fleed from the blight DESERVE to become the most influent being on the world?

So he's a smart guy? I like my Hawke already.

How I'm going to get involved with the story of a man's rise to his own power when others are doing the epic tasks at the same time?

How can I care about a man who seeks power for himself when I just took part in the story of a hero who saved the world?

So he's going to have a personal epic story instead of fighting mindless hordes? Perhaps I will give DA2 a chance.

[munananustaja]

My warden is most important character in dragon age.





Now in dragon age 2 i want to be a nobody. Or at least i want to play some random guy who is not important at all.