392 réponses à ce sujet

[mosor]

ShadowJ20 wrote...

They probably stole the blue prints to build the Normandy.  And EDI does pretty much all the work.  I'm pretty sure any good AI could've done the same thing.  I'm not talking about the mission about the batarians that one invovled Ish.

Takes a lot of resources and planning to build SR-2 even assuming the stole the blue prints and did nothing to improve it. Not  many non government organizations could pull that off. EDI isn't some normal AI. She's build from reaper technology. No regular AI would have prevented sophisticated collector cyber attacks on the normandy or have been able to hack into the collector ship and base. Other than Sheppard, and the Normandy, EDI is the biggest reason the collectors are defeated. Coicincidently, all of them were built, or revived by Cerberus. Cerberus is the biggest reason the collectors are dead.

Modifié par mosor, 24 juillet 2010 - 02:52 .

[Kroesis-]

EDI, when able to access her files says Cerberus initially persuaded and backed the Alliance in co-developing the Normandy SR-1 with the turians, allowing humans to observe turian technologies and warship design practices. After its construction, Cerberus retained the schematics, purchased parts from thousands of suppliers and had it assembled by one of their cells at a remote location in the Voyager cluster.

[mosor]

ShadowJ20 wrote...

When I think of Cerberus I think of the TIM. I really don't think much of Cerberus or it's scientist. TIM IS Cerberus. There's nothing really bad about Cerberus its more about the guy pulling the strings. The guy who wouldn't mind killing Shepard to keep the collector base because he thinks he can nowwin without Shep. Everyone is a tool for TIM to use.  Shepard became a tool when he was resurrected.

Cerberus is Humanity . We are all tools for society in one way or another. Even TIM! Personally I don't view TIM as evil per se. I see him as the embodiment of the best and worst humanity has to offer rolled up into one. He has lofty idealistic goals for human advancement, emobodies our struggle for survival, sacrifice, and our determination. He has a willingness to see the big picture rather than be mired in petty concerns. At the same time he can be ruthless, pragmatic, a userer, controlling,  untrusting to a fault and power hungry (wheather solely for himself or humanity as a whole isn't totally clear) and he smokes! He's very multidementional which makes him hard to totally pin down. Not like Harbringer. No one who played ME2 took Harbringer seriously, but everyone keeps a weary eye on TIM.

[Giggles_Manically]

TIM is cooler than Harbinger for sure.



I dont think he can tied into a generic Bond Villian role though. I dont trust him or believe half of the stuff he says, but he is sadly the only who notices the big sign that is flashing REAPERS AHOY!



I hope it dosent turn out that he is just a villian since in 2 he is the deepest charachter in game. Although the main reason I think people dont get along with him is that the labels of:

Terrorist, Torture, Any means, Dominance, and POWER all carry very negative meanings that put people off.

[Costin_Razvan]

Terrorist, Torture, Any means, Dominance, and POWER all carry very negative meanings that put people off.

Except for the first, it could said that any country with great strength has/had the same beliefs.

but he is sadly the only who notices the big sign that is flashing REAPERS AHOY

This is why I trust TIM, not completely mind you but I know he will not **** you over in ME3, and am very Pro-Cerberus.

[Christmas Ape]

Except for the first, it could said that any country with great strength has/had the same beliefs.

And really, I'm still waiting to hear about a Cerberus action that actually fits the definition of terrorism. I'm looking for a Cerberus operation that specifically targeted civilians with the intention of changing political policy among the victims' governing body.

[Giggles_Manically]

I really didnt care for ME2 story, just like Awakenings.



NO really the big bad from before is really the good one!

REALLY!

ME: ORLY?



While I think Cerberus does go to far in many cases (Akuze/Pragia/Overlord) sadly this saying fits from an Edding novel:

Yes its all well and good to be honorable, but when you are wading through a sea of blood, with your nice clean soul wont you be proud!



I dont agree with human domincance, or forcing things on people like the Eezo accidents but if it means stopping Galactic genocide than a little sin, is better than a gigantic FUBAR.

[Nightwriter]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

chapa3 wrote...

I do agree on one thing with nightwriter. If Cerberus must exist, it must be controlled by a government. A private clandestine organization is just asking for trouble. The fact that Illusive Eyes said that "Cerberus Is Humanity" is just proof that Illusive Man could easily be on a power trip.

I don't know why people are so quick to hate on private organizations yet inexplicably so trusting of government.

Well it's not about trusting the government.

It's realizing if they were placed under government control they'd be subjected to a system of checks and balances. They'd be regulated. Whereas now, the whole organization is controlled by one man with ultimate power, who has to take absolutely no responsibility for his actions.

[RiouHotaru]

"Cerberus is Humanity" is about where I realized he's out of his mind. The statement basically implies that he's representing humanity, or their interests. I'm sorry, I didn't ask to be represented except by the guy who's on the Council (bless you Anderson!) and I would most certainly NOT want to be represented by you, TIM.

[Giggles_Manically]

The CIA, Spetznas, Mossad, and many other organizations like them although "regulated" by governments are not really controlled by them.



For instance in Canada we have the Joint Task Force 2. Who do black ops, yet only the prime minister, Minister of Defence, and key military people ever have any say on them. DO not be to quick to think the governement oversight equals more control.



All these groups mentioned have done terrible things, while being controlled by powerful people. The only difference between TIM and a government leader, is the TIM is not voted in.

[Nightwriter]

ShadowJ20 wrote...

"Cerberus is Humanity" I don't believe TIM when he says that. I have a feeling he's more in it for himself. I'm going to guess it will be revealed in ME3. Let's say Shepard keeps the collector base for himself (TIM doesn't get his hands on it) and uses that technology to become unstoppable, Shep no longer listens to TIM and does things his way. I would think if TIM knows this then he won't be so quick to suggest on saving the base because Shep is more powerful than he is. I think TIM always wants to be #1. He'd advance humanity as long as he's #1 or he's in control. He's a bit communist in my opinion.

I agree. I do get the feeling he is in it for himself. If TIM were faced with a situation in which the absolute best thing for humanity was for him to step down and cede full control of Cerberus and the Cerberus cause to another leader, would he?

[HCS01]

Cerberus is a nothing more than a terrorist organization: Well funded and distributed into cells. Answers to no government. Private donations and front money corporations provide resources. Illegal experiments. Government connections. And they are racists! Human dominance at the expense of everyone else sounds like the KKK (white supremacy) to me.

[Giggles_Manically]

The terrorist label is hard to use, since terrorists use terror to change other groups descions.



They are more in line with an extremeist group than a terror group.

[DPSSOC]

HCS01 wrote...

Cerberus is a nothing more than a terrorist organization: Well funded and distributed into cells. Answers to no government. Private donations and front money corporations provide resources. Illegal experiments. Government connections.

 
So far we have the Mafia, or any other form of organized crime.

HCS01 wrote...
And they are racists! Human dominance at the expense of everyone else sounds like the KKK (white supremacy) to me.

Here I must disagree.  Cerberus is not racist, if they were TIM wouldn't have given any non-human dossiers to Shepard.  Saying Cerberus is racist is like saying the IRA or FLQ are/were racist.  It's nationalism, isolationism, ideas of inherrant racial superiority do not enter into the equation.  Perhaps not the most enlightened view but there are more dangerous outlooks than "Get the hell out and leave me alone."

[Nightwriter]

DPSSOC wrote...

Here I must disagree.  Cerberus is not racist, if they were TIM wouldn't have given any non-human dossiers to Shepard.  Saying Cerberus is racist is like saying the IRA or FLQ are/were racist.  It's nationalism, isolationism, ideas of inherrant racial superiority do not enter into the equation.  Perhaps not the most enlightened view but there are more dangerous outlooks than "Get the hell out and leave me alone."

Believe it or not, I don't think TIM being racist and him employing the use of non-humans are mutually exclusive.

TIM may not like aliens, but he will certainly use them when it is advantageous. He is not going to be fussy if the aliens can help the mission, or throw away a valuable tool. As long as a person serves a useful purpose for him, I get the impression he will accept just about anybody. They are still just tools to him, however. Expendable.

[TMA LIVE]

Nightwriter wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Here I must disagree.  Cerberus is not racist, if they were TIM wouldn't have given any non-human dossiers to Shepard.  Saying Cerberus is racist is like saying the IRA or FLQ are/were racist.  It's nationalism, isolationism, ideas of inherrant racial superiority do not enter into the equation.  Perhaps not the most enlightened view but there are more dangerous outlooks than "Get the hell out and leave me alone."

Believe it or not, I don't think TIM being racist and him employing the use of non-humans are mutually exclusive.

TIM may not like aliens, but he will certainly use them when it is advantageous. He is not going to be fussy if the aliens can help the mission, or throw away a valuable tool. As long as a person serves a useful purpose for him, I get the impression he will accept just about anybody. They are still just tools to him, however. Expendable.

And the Collector Base is his new best tool, since he's crazy happy about having it.

[Zulu_DFA]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

You see, there is no "incriminating evidence" whatsoever against Cerberus, designating them as "perpetrators" instead of just ignorant witnesses on this particular instance of Chaska colony. Other than the popular hatred for them, that is. Like, you know, in case of Socrates: he wasn't found guilty of violating any of Athens' laws, but the mob wanted him dead, so a new law with retro active force was invented specifically for him and he died. Or of Jesus Christ: Pontius Pilatus thought that he was innocent, but the mob wanted him dead, so, WTH, who needs due process anyway? Panem et circenses!!! Totally justified, in-game and IRL, I say, but when we here on a real life game forum discuss the in-game fictional facts, why does it hurt so much to get them straight?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. You have mistaken "agree with me" for "get [the facts] straight".

Well, fair enough. But it works both ways: anything you say is your opinion, including the part that holds me mistaken about "get[ting the facts] straight."

Do we have a clear log of events at Chasca? Not that we are permitted to read in person, but what Shepard finds leads the narration to pronounce them guilty. Combined with the Cerberus track record, one version of events is far more likely.

The Journal entry upon the completion of that assignment is ambigous though. I don't remember the exact wording, but it is very explicit about non-causal relation between the husk transformation and the Cerberus operative visit. The log translation about Cerberus having "a lot to answer for" has something to do with the fact the Cerberus operative (team) was the only one(s) to be able to leave the colony. And, naturally, no answering would have been available from anybody else, because everybody else died.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 25 juillet 2010 - 12:09 .

[darth_lopez]

mosor wrote...


Just wondering how many people are pro cerberus? Or if you don't like cerberus per se, do you agree with their vision of human dominance?  For those people, how far would you go to achieve those ends?

Finally how many people don't want to see humanity as the dominant power in the galaxy and why?

i'm not pro-cerberus per se. though i do agree with Human Dominance. 

I would go as far as irradicating 3/4ths of the Salarians. curing the genophage for krogan alliance. Use of Ship board AI.  Use of asteroid drops. total irradication of the batarians Burning Illium and the asari home world to ash....suffice to say the galaxy would be down several inhabitable planets.  and possibly 5 species. 

simple human dominance for no other reason than we can. They(the alliens) often refuse to assist us where as we frequently try to assist them. as such i feel they can now better serve us by being beaten into submission we are now the dominant force and we have obviously been experimenting with more aggressive and active VI (lunar mission in ME 1) it's time to take our rightful place as the lead and clearly superior species. as much as i love turians they are less capable than us and us such deserve to serve us as a vasal or they can join us and with the untied Turian and human Fleets can true control of the galaxy. 


the salarians i see being the only real problem for any human force. they must go virus bombing and asteroid drops are justified in purging them. 

[tonnactus]

darth_lopez wrote...


i'm not pro-cerberus per se. though i do agree with Human Dominance. 

Why humans should dominate anything? Why they deserve it?

They(the alliens) often refuse to assist us where as we frequently try to assist them.

You mean like udina?(the "human boss ")

Modifié par tonnactus, 25 juillet 2010 - 12:07 .

[Inverness Moon]

tonnactus wrote...

Why humans should dominate anything? Why they deserve it?

I don't think you understand what human dominance means in this context. It means we speak softly but carry the biggest stick in the galaxy.

[darth_lopez]

tonnactus wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...


i'm not pro-cerberus per se. though i do agree with Human Dominance. 

Why humans should dominate anything? Why they deserve it?

we're naturally superior, we've achieved in less than a century what most races take centuries to accomplish. our cyber warfar techniques rival that of the salarians our general battle tactics are more effective than turians and Krogan. we can be just as adaptable as and determined as the krogan. and we're genetically similar to the Protheans i call that right to rule. lets not forget physically stronger to the slarians and likely the asari as well.

They(the alliens) often refuse to assist us where as we frequently try to assist them.

You mean like udina?(the "human boss ")

all human politicians suck, i never pick udina, however at least Human politicians care about being re-elected or re-instated and our typical government system doesn't enforce a cast on people or follow traditional Aristocratic tendencies nor are we subjected to class by our heritage. So at least we can garuntee we have officials we want for the most part who do what we would like for the most part. and our type of general government is certaintly prefrential to turian or salarian forms.