392 réponses à ce sujet

[mosor]

Sajuro wrote...

I trust the Asari to be in control more than any human since they have the mentality for long term decisions.

The Asari: An overly diplomatic race that takes little precautions to future threats. The few asari who advocate building new relays and being better prrepared are simply ignored in favor of those who want spirituality, money or pleasure.They simply hope that diplomacy will solve anything, and when it fails, as at times it does, they put their heads in the sand and hope another race takes care of it and if they don't, they let allies be exterminated, like the quarians.

The Turians: A militeristic race that shoots first and asks questions later. The only diplomacy they know is gunboat diplomacy. They've engaged in intersteallar civil wars among themselves that make our world wars look like a public brawl. The relay 314 incident perfectly illustrates how they handle unknown races. No attempt to communicate to disuade them from opening the relay. No warning shots. Just shoot to kill.

The Salarians. The most human like personality wise. Yet, they are physically weak and not as diplomatic. They are also very meddlesome They uplift the krogans who were not ready to be uplifted because they needed shock troopers for their war, and repayed them with steralization. They don't declare war or try to mediate. They just use espionage or special ops to simply take care of the problem.

So yes, I;d rather see humanity strong if they can pull it off. The aliens arn't any better than us.

Modifié par mosor, 25 juillet 2010 - 03:25 .

[DPSSOC]

Nightwriter wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

Here I must disagree.  Cerberus is not racist, if they were TIM wouldn't have given any non-human dossiers to Shepard.  Saying Cerberus is racist is like saying the IRA or FLQ are/were racist.  It's nationalism, isolationism, ideas of inherrant racial superiority do not enter into the equation.  Perhaps not the most enlightened view but there are more dangerous outlooks than "Get the hell out and leave me alone."

Believe it or not, I don't think TIM being racist and him employing the use of non-humans are mutually exclusive.

TIM may not like aliens, but he will certainly use them when it is advantageous. He is not going to be fussy if the aliens can help the mission, or throw away a valuable tool. As long as a person serves a useful purpose for him, I get the impression he will accept just about anybody. They are still just tools to him, however. Expendable.

I'm not saying he wouldn't use them, but racism stems, generally, from a sense of superiority.  If TIM were racist he'd have no problem using aliens for menial or low level tasks but Sheps mission requires the best of the best and assigning aliens to the task is admitting they're superior to any humans he was able to find.

[Sajuro]

Shandepared wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

The same could be said for going to war because after all, it's not your people you are gambling with. It would be easier to repel a Geth Fleet then to invade their worlds.

The Battle of the Citadel would say otherwise.

I'm not saying the Council should have foreseen Sovereign and the Reapers, but they should have foreseen the possibility of a geth attack. The Council should have taken more seriously the danger that a rogue A.I. on the scale of the geth represents, most especially when it is isolated in a remote region of space that you can't adequately observe. The geth could have been doing anything behind the Veil, they could have even been building up a large armada with advanced weaponry with which to raze the rest of the galaxy.

As it turns out, they were.

You seem to forget that the Saren used the Conduit to gain a back door onto the citadel and knock out the control tower and C-sec with his sneak attack. It also didn't help the citadel fleet that the Geth had a freaking Reaper who could one shot most of the ships. And I know that you couldn't forget that those were the Heretic Geth while the True Geth were working on restoring the planets in case the Quarians ever wanted to work it out.

[Inverness Moon]

Shandepared wrote...

Oh my, condoning the genocide of an entire species are we? You're certainly taking the moral highground here.

I condone the genocide of the reapers.

Shandepared wrote...

The quarians were an ally of the Citadel and they did nothing wrong, they broke no law. Moral reasons for intervention aside, the Council should have invaded to protect their own interests. Remember how A.I. was heavily regulated and in most cases outright banned? That was so because A.I. was deemed dangerous, highly dangerous. What then do you do when millions of accidental A.I. rise up and kill off billions and billions of people, conquering entire star systems?

You're contradicting yourself. AIs are heavily regulated and in most cases outright banned, as you said. The quarians created a race of "highly dangerous" AIs. However unintentional that was, as far as the Council was concerned, they broke the law severely enough to loose their embassy.

Also, stop trying to spin it as if the geth struck first.

[Sajuro]

Is legion wearing....bling?

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

Sajuro wrote...

Is legion wearing....bling?

I'm afraid so.

[Sajuro]

Yep, the Reapers pretty much have their genocide coming.

[Sajuro]

Shandepared wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

You seem to forget that the Saren used the Conduit to gain a back door onto the citadel and knock out the control tower and C-sec with his sneak attack. It also didn't help the citadel fleet that the Geth had a freaking Reaper who could one shot most of the ships.

Sovereign didn't even start firing its weapons until it was docked to the Citadel and the Alliance was firing on it. The Citadel fleet was destroyed by the geth, not by Sovereign.

Okay, I'm sorry, they had a freaking reaper who could plow through a ship at cruising speed (And I know it was 1 ship, but the massive amount of armor still stand). They probably would have gotten warning that someone saw a geth fleet if the Control tower hadn't been taken by Saren and the Geth. That said, it was an impressive strategy of the bad guys, since the Destiny Ascension was forced to rescue the council instead of devoting its full attention to the battle. The Council races would probably fair better when defending against a Geth Fleet in a traditional space war since it would probably be in one of the systems linking to the Relay with the Citadel.

[Sajuro]

mosor wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

I trust the Asari to be in control more than any human since they have the mentality for long term decisions.

The Turians: A militeristic race that shoots first and asks questions later. The only diplomacy they know is gunboat diplomacy. They've engaged in intersteallar civil wars among themselves that make our world wars look like a public brawl. The relay 314 incident perfectly illustrates how they handle unknown races. No attempt to communicate to disuade them from opening the relay. No warning shots. Just shoot to kill.

Can I ask how the Turians were supposed to communicate with us? Anything they said would probably sound like angry growling to us, causing us to open fire on them. If they fired warning shots, we would probably take it the wrong way and open fire. by shooting to kill, they made their intentions perfectly clear.

[Nightwriter]

DPSSOC wrote...

I'm not saying he wouldn't use them, but racism stems, generally, from a sense of superiority.  If TIM were racist he'd have no problem using aliens for menial or low level tasks but Sheps mission requires the best of the best and assigning aliens to the task is admitting they're superior to any humans he was able to find.

I do not think his racism means he is unable to appreciate the skills or talents of alien races. On the contrary, I think his racism toward aliens comes from his very fear of their power, his appreciation of the threat they pose.

I don't think he would ever trust aliens with the kind of power he gives Miranda, but this is a special assignment. It's Shepard who will be dealing with these aliens, it's Shepard's team, and from TIM's perspective he's just throwing mercs at a problem. There is no reason he should not use the best if the best are aliens. Using alien lives to solve a human problem is actually a bonus from where he's standing. Sitting. Smoking. Whatever.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 25 juillet 2010 - 11:10 .

[mosor]

Sajuro wrote...

mosor wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

I trust the Asari to be in control more than any human since they have the mentality for long term decisions.

The Turians: A militeristic race that shoots first and asks questions later. The only diplomacy they know is gunboat diplomacy. They've engaged in intersteallar civil wars among themselves that make our world wars look like a public brawl. The relay 314 incident perfectly illustrates how they handle unknown races. No attempt to communicate to disuade them from opening the relay. No warning shots. Just shoot to kill.

Can I ask how the Turians were supposed to communicate with us? Anything they said would probably sound like angry growling to us, causing us to open fire on them. If they fired warning shots, we would probably take it the wrong way and open fire. by shooting to kill, they made their intentions perfectly clear.

Those were unarmed exploration vessels. Any scan would indicate that.

Modifié par mosor, 25 juillet 2010 - 12:59 .

[Arijharn]

Shandepared wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

After all of the wars, I don't blame them for not chasing after the Geth if the Geth stayed beyond the veil since the attitude at the time was that it was the Quarian's own damn fault for getting kicked off their planets.And I personally think that the Quarians of old deserved to be planetless for all the **** they pulled.

Oh my, condoning the genocide of an entire species are we? You're certainly taking the moral highground here.

The quarians were an ally of the Citadel and they did nothing wrong, they broke no law. Moral reasons for intervention aside, the Council should have invaded to protect their own interests. Remember how A.I. was heavily regulated and in most cases outright banned? That was so because A.I. was deemed dangerous, highly dangerous. What then do you do when millions of accidental A.I. rise up and kill off billions and billions of people, conquering entire star systems?

Well, if you're the Council then you do nothing.

It was hypocritical and short-sighted. If A.I. are safe enough to be left alone after they've committed a war of genocide and conquest then surely they are safe enough to be researched and developed without restriction.

I thought it was principally the actions of the Geth that led to the Council decreeing that AI development was illegal (it was considered a bad idea beforehand). I mean, other than the Geth, what 'negative' AI experiences have the council had?

Not including Sovereign of course.

[Giggles_Manically]

I find it wierd that outside of EDI or Legion, any AI that gets more power than a toaster over seems to go on a killing spree.



Its such an overused trope at this point.

[mosor]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I find it wierd that outside of EDI or Legion, any AI that gets more power than a toaster over seems to go on a killing spree.

Its such an overused trope at this point.

I blame The Terminator and Battle Star Galatica:lol: Then again, the term robot, is derived from the slavic word for worker. An unpaid worker is a slave, and slaves with self arwareness eventually  revolt!

[Giggles_Manically]

Yah but it seems in ME as soon as you tell something to do anything beyond simple addition it goes bannans.

Or as my uncle an electronics engineer likes to say:
A computer will add 2+2 forever if told to do it, it wont suddenly come up with 2+2 =
DEATH TO ALL HUMANS!

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 25 juillet 2010 - 03:23 .

[Sajuro]

Arijharn wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

After all of the wars, I don't blame them for not chasing after the Geth if the Geth stayed beyond the veil since the attitude at the time was that it was the Quarian's own damn fault for getting kicked off their planets.And I personally think that the Quarians of old deserved to be planetless for all the **** they pulled.

Oh my, condoning the genocide of an entire species are we? You're certainly taking the moral highground here.

The quarians were an ally of the Citadel and they did nothing wrong, they broke no law. Moral reasons for intervention aside, the Council should have invaded to protect their own interests. Remember how A.I. was heavily regulated and in most cases outright banned? That was so because A.I. was deemed dangerous, highly dangerous. What then do you do when millions of accidental A.I. rise up and kill off billions and billions of people, conquering entire star systems?

Well, if you're the Council then you do nothing.

It was hypocritical and short-sighted. If A.I. are safe enough to be left alone after they've committed a war of genocide and conquest then surely they are safe enough to be researched and developed without restriction.

I thought it was principally the actions of the Geth that led to the Council decreeing that AI development was illegal (it was considered a bad idea beforehand). I mean, other than the Geth, what 'negative' AI experiences have the council had?

Not including Sovereign of course.

Probably something to do with Salarians in the past but just wasn't included like an AI in an intelligence system or something.

[Sajuro]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

Yah but it seems in ME as soon as you tell something to do anything beyond simple addition it goes bannans.

Or as my uncle an electronics engineer likes to say:
A computer will add 2+2 forever if told to do it, it wont suddenly come up with 2+2 =
DEATH TO ALL HUMANS!

It's because everything more powerful than a toaster realize organics are a bunch of bastards after perusing the bioware forums.

[Sajuro]

Shandepared wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

I thought it was principally the actions of the Geth that led to the Council decreeing that AI development was illegal (it was considered a bad idea beforehand). I mean, other than the Geth, what 'negative' AI experiences have the council had?

No, A.I. was already illegal even back then. The quarians never broke the law though, they never tried to develop A.I. so nobody stopped them. The geth are not like any other A.I.; they have no quantum blue box, no hardware. The geth A.I. accidentally created by the quarians should have been impossible. That's why nobody saw it coming.

But they still broke the law even if no is sure how it happened. Which is why they lost their embassy on the Citadel. If you kill someone without intending to kill them, it's still a crime.

[Pacifien]

Shandepared wrote...
Sovereign didn't even start firing its weapons until it was docked to the Citadel and the Alliance was firing on it. The Citadel fleet was destroyed by the geth, not by Sovereign.

Sovereign did take out a turian cruiser by bulldozing straight through it, though.

[Sajuro]

Pacifien wrote...

Shandepared wrote...
Sovereign didn't even start firing its weapons until it was docked to the Citadel and the Alliance was firing on it. The Citadel fleet was destroyed by the geth, not by Sovereign.

Sovereign did take out a turian cruiser by bulldozing straight through it, though.

Though really it only happened because the Turians overestimated their firepower or thought Sov would stop.

[Pacifien]

Sajuro wrote...
Though really it only happened because the Turians overestimated their firepower or thought Sov would stop.

Turians suck at playing chicken.

Modifié par Pacifien, 25 juillet 2010 - 05:33 .