392 réponses à ce sujet

[Lemonwizard]

Shandepared wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Back during World War II, having a lot of troops, tanks, etc. meant something, up until we invented the nuke. The Alliance or Cerberus needs to do something that makes the number of dreadnoughts the rest of the council species have irrelevant.

We've already done that with our carriers and stealth frigates.

I'd hardly say that those make dreadnaughts "irrelevant".

[CroGamer002]

Humanity should kick ass but Cerberus is brutal.

[angj57]

Anybody ever watch the old show "La Femme Nikita"? There was a line in the intro that said "their ends are just, but their means are ruthless". That's pretty much how I feel about Cerberus. I don't think they are racist or seeking to oppress the other species, they are seeking to protect and better humanity. But I do think their experiments, assassination, etc go too far so I view them ambivolently.

The Council has a purpose, but they are NOT the benevolent, just organization that they make themselves out to be. In Mass Effect 1 it is pretty clear, for instance, that they benefit from human colonization of the Attican Traverse/Terminus Systems, as it passified the area and served as a buffer against Batarian criminals and slavers. However, the Council likes to have it both ways, and refuses to defend human colonies there. They are never going to risk war with the Terminus systems to protect humanity even though they benefit from human colonization.

The Alliance pretty much has to go along with the Council. That's not a failing on their part, but it limits their effectiveness. I do think it's funny that Cerberus went out and found a dead Reaper while the Alliance and Council were arguing over whether the Reapers even exist. They figured out the Collectors were attacking long before the Alliance did. If you talk to EDI after unshackling her, you find out that Cerberus not only built the second Normandy but also played a role in building the first. They created EDI, one of the only AIs we've heard of that actually does what it's supposed to, and they created anti-Reaper weapons for her. The Cerberus team in the dead Reaper isolated and recovered the IFF before dying. And, of course, they brought back Shepard.

I honestly can't picture the Alliance doing ANY of these things. Cerberus overreaches some time. They can be arrogant, short-sighted, ruthless, and completely immoral. But they do play an important role in keeping humanity safe. So, like I said, I view them kind of ambivolently. I think it works pretty well when you have people like Shepard and Miranda, who have a conciousness, getting access to Cerberus's resources.

[Sajuro]

I don't trust Cerberus, I don't trust Timmy. I think that when it would come down to it, Cerberus isn't pro-humanity, it's pro-Cerberus and TIM is neither, when the chips are down he'll probably be pro-TIM above all else and someone like that shouldn't be trusted.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Freakaz0idx wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

Spornicus wrote...

Cerberus gets the job done. 'Nuff said.

 with major casualties and coincidences... 

Cerberus, major casualties now, Alliance, ridiculous casualties later. Pick your poison.

the hell type of hitler-jew-hating **** is that? the intentional coincidental holocaust was a major non-ridiculous casualty ... or your SR 1 and SR 2 both being attacked numerous of times were necessary casualties... 

[Inverness Moon]

The Alliance could use something like those NOVA bombs from Halo that can shatter planets. The reapers would not stand a chance against something like that. And you could stick one of those in a stealth frigate, fly it to some enemy's home planet, and blow it up easily.

Edit: Godwin's Law, never fails.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 22 juillet 2010 - 08:11 .

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

angj57 wrote...

The Council has a purpose, but they are NOT the benevolent, just organization that they make themselves out to be.

Good post. Also, the fact above is overlooked by many. The Council, Systems Alliance, and other species' militaries have far from a clean track record, but for political reasons they pour tons of resources into keeping these questionable practices under wraps. Cerberus simply does not give a **** about public opinion so they're seen as extremist xenophobes.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

the hell type of hitler-jew-hating **** is that? the intentional coincidental holocaust was a major non-ridiculous casualty ... or your SR 1 and SR 2 both being attacked numerous of times were necessary casualties... 

What is this I don't even?


but seriously is this a troll?

[Nightwriter]

Cerberus supports Shand's way of thinking, which is, anyone who can grasp power should grasp power, everyone has the right to take power if they can take it, and they should be in power because might is right.

In other words, they have not evolved or progressed past an animalistic way of looking at the universe. They are still, for the most part, animals. Surprise that they stoop to levels we would ascribe to animals.

I believe that as evolved creatures we should place principles upon our patterns of behavior and our ways of existence. We should decide to make life more than just animalistic survival of the fittest; we're not beasts. We can take what we want, but we should choose not to, because the more we grow the more we choose to be better than animals.

[Anezay]

If I had only played Mass Effect 2, I probably would have said "Gee, they're not so bad. They're kind of shady, but they're terrorists with good intentions!" However, after all of the side quests in ME1, I believe that everyone in Cerberus needs a bullet in them. I do not support human dominance, by the way. That would be like declaring Pueto Rican dominance in America, or Kazakhstan's world dominance.

I wish there were an option to save the collector base, but not give Tim the IFF. You have a super multicultural crew. Send Tali to the fleet with a copy. Send Legion to the geth with another. Garrus can contact the Turian hierarchy, Samara should have some pull with the Asari. Mordin has been established to have siginificant influence with the Salarian government. Even Thane could take the information to the Hanar. No, wait, that would only get us the Hanar and Drell. Sorry, Thane is still useless. You are freaking Commander Shepard. Get that IFF to the Alliance and the Council. Instead of just arming the space Taliban with super technology, why not give it to absolutely everyone to give yourself the best chance? Does that make too much sense for Shepard?

Just showing that I'm not an idiot paragon who blows up the base. I just wish that Shepard wasn't so damn stupid.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Nightwriter wrote...

Cerberus supports Shand's way of thinking, which is, anyone who can grasp power should grasp power, everyone has the right to take power if they can take it, and they should be in power because might is right.

It is not anyone who can grasp power should grasp power. It is anyone who can grasp power will grasp power. It has nothing to do about what is right, but about how the universe works.

[Nightwriter]

Shandepared wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I believe that as evolved creatures we should place principles upon our patterns of behavior and our ways of existence.

I am doing just that. My principals are that we should accept the reality of life in the universe, not try and force it to conform to our fantasies. Life isn't fair and it never will be.

Those are not principles at all. What you are doing is easy. Giving in to one's animalistic nature and taking a survivalist view of the universe is easy. Just like pessimism is easy.

Principles are principles because they are hard. Because self-determinating to be better is hard.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Nightwriter wrote...

Principles are principles because they are hard. Because self-determinating to be better is hard.

Self-determining to be better (according to your definition of better) gets your species s*** on by the rest of the galactic community. Politics is all well and good, but strength is what it always comes down to, always.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Shandepared wrote...

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Good post. Also, the fact above is overlooked by many. The Council, Systems Alliance, and other species' militaries have far from a clean track record, but for political reasons they pour tons of resources into keeping these questionable practices under wraps. Cerberus simply does not give a **** about public opinion so they're seen as extremist xenophobes.

Anyone who claims the Alliance is more just than Cerberus needs to remember that Pragia and Akuze happened while Cerberus was part of the Alliance, they need to remember that Kinatix (the place Alenko was trained) was an Alliance program (you know, where turians were allowed to beat teenagers), and that Lord Darius, a ruthless and brutal criminal was supplied with weapons and funding to take over the traverse. When he became a problem the Alliance had him assassinated, something that was apparently against the law according to Hackett. It is also worth noting Hackett's tone regarding Major Kyle and the biotic terrorists that abducted Chairman Burns.

cerberus was originally a alliance project (obviously made by humans...)... look at cerberus' very own projects going awray ... reaper IFF, project overlord, disabled collector's vessel, etc...

Anezay wrote...

If I had only played Mass Effect 2, I probably would have said "Gee, they're not so bad. They're kind of shady, but they're terrorists with good intentions!" However, after all of the side quests in ME1, I believe that everyone in Cerberus needs a bullet in them. I do not support human dominance, by the way. That would be like declaring Pueto Rican dominance in America, or Kazakhstan's world dominance.
I wish there were an option to save the collector base, but not give Tim the IFF. You have a super multicultural crew. Send Tali to the fleet with a copy. Send Legion to the geth with another. Garrus can contact the Turian hierarchy, Samara should have some pull with the Asari. Mordin has been established to have siginificant influence with the Salarian government. Even Thane could take the information to the Hanar. No, wait, that would only get us the Hanar and Drell. Sorry, Thane is still useless. You are freaking Commander Shepard. Get that IFF to the Alliance and the Council. Instead of just arming the space Taliban with super technology, why not give it to absolutely everyone to give yourself the best chance? Does that make too much sense for Shepard?
Just showing that I'm not an idiot paragon who blows up the base. I just wish that Shepard wasn't so damn stupid.

:unsure:maybe the game's in perspective of how cerberus started with the alliance, and ended up on their own (same with shepard... started with alliance, then woke up working for cerberus)...

I wish we could have chosen who we could have independently worked for... like the blue suns, eclipse mercs, cerberus, n7, specific private contractors, maybe not the bloodpacks... etc a alternative from just working for cerberus... 

[smudboy]

Nightwriter wrote...

Cerberus supports Shand's way of thinking, which is, anyone who can grasp power should grasp power, everyone has the right to take power if they can take it, and they should be in power because might is right.

In other words, they have not evolved or progressed past an animalistic way of looking at the universe. They are still, for the most part, animals. Surprise that they stoop to levels we would ascribe to animals.

I believe that as evolved creatures we should place principles upon our patterns of behavior and our ways of existence. We should decide to make life more than just animalistic survival of the fittest; we're not beasts. We can take what we want, but we should choose not to, because the more we grow the more we choose to be better than animals.

Cerberus' agenda is to promote humanity.

Your description is that of anything between despotism and timocracy, not an animalistic one.  Animals on the whole are not barbarous.

Cerberus is the only group trying to stop the Reapers.  Principles and methods be damned.  Philosophize after the threat is over.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Principles are principles because they are hard. Because self-determinating to be better is hard.

Self-determining to be better (according to your definition of better) gets your species s*** on by the rest of the galactic community. Politics is all well and good, but strength is what it always comes down to, always.

says the hypocrite... ashley's character hate cerberus, how come your ashley's in support of them?... 

[Nightwriter]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Cerberus supports Shand's way of thinking, which is, anyone who can grasp power should grasp power, everyone has the right to take power if they can take it, and they should be in power because might is right.

It is not anyone who can grasp power should grasp power. It is anyone who can grasp power will grasp power. It has nothing to do about what is right, but about how the universe works.

Lol.

Having principles is not the same thing as being naive, contrary to some of my opponents' thinking.

I agree with Miranda that we need a group like the salarian STG or the asari commandos. We need muscle. We need to defend ourselves. But it should not be Cerberus.

It should be a group that solidifies our formidableness and looks out for human safety and human protection, not human safety and human protection + human domination.

We need a Stargate Command, if you will. Someone out there defending us and acquiring new technologies, but also not trying to take over the universe.

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Nightwriter wrote...

Lol.

Having principles is not the same thing as being naive, contrary to some of my opponents' thinking.

I agree with Miranda that we need a group like the salarian STG or the asari commandos. We need muscle. We need to defend ourselves. But it should not be Cerberus.

It should be a group that solidifies our formidableness and looks out for human safety and human protection, not human safety and human protection + human domination.

We need a Stargate Command, if you will. Someone out there defending us and acquiring new technologies, but also not trying to take over the universe.

If you think the Salarian STG or the Asari Commandos are any more "principled" than Cerberus, then you, my friend, are naive.

[Nightwriter]

smudboy wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Cerberus supports Shand's way of thinking, which is, anyone who can grasp power should grasp power, everyone has the right to take power if they can take it, and they should be in power because might is right.

In other words, they have not evolved or progressed past an animalistic way of looking at the universe. They are still, for the most part, animals. Surprise that they stoop to levels we would ascribe to animals.

I believe that as evolved creatures we should place principles upon our patterns of behavior and our ways of existence. We should decide to make life more than just animalistic survival of the fittest; we're not beasts. We can take what we want, but we should choose not to, because the more we grow the more we choose to be better than animals.

Cerberus' agenda is to promote humanity.

Your description is that of anything between despotism and timocracy, not an animalistic one.  Animals on the whole are not barbarous.

Cerberus is the only group trying to stop the Reapers.  Principles and methods be damned.  Philosophize after the threat is over.

I can achieve what Cerberus is trying to achieve. I can defeat the Reapers. They are unnecessary at this point.

Also, "anything between despotism and timocracy" seems to be what Cerberus and the Cerberus supporters are after.

[Spornicus]

Mordin and the STG re-sterilized an entire species because the first time the Salarians and Turians teamed up to sterilize the Krogan failed, yet Cerberus gets flak for turning a few people into husks. Every race has skeletons, but without them they wouldn't be where they are now. Cerberus is no different.

[Nightwriter]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

If you think the Salarian STG or the Asari Commandos are any more "principled" than Cerberus, then you, my friend, are naive.

I certainly don't think that at all.

I do, however, think that:

1.) They are controlled by their governments.

2.) Are not outlaws.

3.) Are not actively and relentlessly in pursuit of the total domination of the races which they represent and willing to do absolutely anything to achieve that domination.