392 réponses à ce sujet

[Inverness Moon]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Cerberus are foolish. I'm heavily renegade and as such don't mind their methods. I just don't like their agenda. I don't want a galactic human empire.

Cerberus doesn't either, so I don't see where the problem is.

[wulf3n]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

Cerberus are foolish. I'm heavily renegade and as such don't mind their methods. I just don't like their agenda. I don't want a galactic human empire.

Cerberus doesn't either, so I don't see where the problem is.

Considering no one but TIM knows Cerberus' true goals, it can't be confirmed or denied. To say he doesn't is just as foolish as to say he does.

[Inverness Moon]

wulf3n wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

Cerberus are foolish. I'm heavily renegade and as such don't mind their methods. I just don't like their agenda. I don't want a galactic human empire.

Cerberus doesn't either, so I don't see where the problem is.

Considering no one but TIM knows Cerberus' true goals, it can't be confirmed or denied. To say he doesn't is just as foolish as to say he does.

It can be denied quite easily with common sense that his goal isn't to conquer the galaxy.

[thq95]

Human dominance yes, Cerberus dominance no.

[wulf3n]

Inverness Moon wrote...
It can be denied quite easily with common sense that his goal isn't to conquer the galaxy.

Please do!

TIM want's humanities safetey, how much safer can you get than having no other species to compete with.

Modifié par wulf3n, 23 juillet 2010 - 08:40 .

[Dave of Canada]

wulf3n wrote...

TIM want's humanities safetey, how much safer can you get than having no other species to compete with.

Unless all other species unite in one banner and attack humanity.

While humanity might have the greater advantage with Super-Cerberus, Cerberus still can't come out of the shadows and thus their technology would need to be used subtley and the common citizen would still pay the price. If the turians invaded Earth, how many humans would die from the resulting conflict?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 23 juillet 2010 - 08:36 .

[wulf3n]

Dave of Canada wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

TIM want's humanities safetey, how much safer can you get than having no other species to compete with.

Unless all other species unite in one banner and attack humanity.

While humanity might have the greater advantage with Super-Cerberus, Cerberus still can't come out of the shadows and thus their technology would need to be used subtley and the common citizen would still pay the price. If the turians invaded Earth, how many humans would die from the resulting conflict?

wait what? im just sayin you can't get much safer than being the only species in the galaxy. I never said Cerberus would start an all out war with the other races.

[Dave of Canada]

wulf3n wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

TIM want's humanities safetey, how much safer can you get than having no other species to compete with.

Unless all other species unite in one banner and attack humanity.

While humanity might have the greater advantage with Super-Cerberus, Cerberus still can't come out of the shadows and thus their technology would need to be used subtley and the common citizen would still pay the price. If the turians invaded Earth, how many humans would die from the resulting conflict?

wait what? im just sayin you can't get much safer than being the only species in the galaxy. I never said Cerberus would start an all out war with the other races.

Being the only species in the galaxy would mean wiping out the other species.
Wiping out the other species would probably mean an all out war.
Humanity doesn't have the kind of tech to hold on it's own without the C-base.

[wulf3n]

Dave of Canada wrote...
Being the only species in the galaxy would mean wiping out the other species.
Wiping out the other species would probably mean an all out war.
Humanity doesn't have the kind of tech to hold on it's own without the C-base.

There are other ways. Let the reapers do it! incite the other Races to Attack each other! Cure the genophage, let the Krogan have some fun, then make them completely sterile, im sure there's lots more that i can't/couldn't think of.

War isn't the only option, this is Cerberus' specialty after all.

[Count Viceroy]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

Cerberus are foolish. I'm heavily renegade and as such don't mind their methods. I just don't like their agenda. I don't want a galactic human empire.

Cerberus doesn't either, so I don't see where the problem is.

Oh, and what evidence do you have of this? Even if he explicitly went out and said that it wasn't his goal, I'd still not believe it. He's not exactly up front with his motives and ambitions. Humanity first is vauge at best. Whats the best way to ensure humanity comes first, forever and always? Rule the known galaxy and/or wipe out any resistance. It's what I'd do.

[Arijharn]

Count Viceroy wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Count Viceroy wrote...

Cerberus are foolish. I'm heavily renegade and as such don't mind their methods. I just don't like their agenda. I don't want a galactic human empire.

Cerberus doesn't either, so I don't see where the problem is.

Oh, and what evidence do you have of this? Even if he explicitly went out and said that it wasn't his goal, I'd still not believe it. He's not exactly up front with his motives and ambitions. Humanity first is vauge at best. Whats the best way to ensure humanity comes first, forever and always? Rule the known galaxy and/or wipe out any resistance. It's what I'd do.

So what's the point of even debating if you aren't even going to be bothered to be open minded or even entertain the notion of listening etc.

Can I just point out that it's retarded to think that he would seek to utterly exterminate other species because:
A) What's the point
It would be impossible to accomplish (seeing as we all have similiar technology levels, or perhaps humanity's would be larger due to saving the base, but it's doubtful that it's 'orders of magnitude' above current weapon/defense designs)
C) He's charismatic, but not charismatic to persuade an entire species to wholesale slaughter another (could even Shephard do that?)
D) People would object for all sorts of different reasons.

Dominance can mean other things other than military, socio-economic immediately springs to mind.

For the record, I am pro-cerberus... I'm also pro alien co-operation.

[wulf3n]

Arijharn wrote...
Dominance can mean other things other than military, socio-economic immediately springs to mind.

History has shown that those kinds of dominance never lasts. Eradication is the only way to ensure human dominance until the end of time

[The Unfallen]

As Kelly puts it, Cerberus looks out for Humans, watches their backs. They don't hate aliens. Like Kelly said, her sister started a dog shelter, but she liked cats as well. Same principle. Just because TIM is racially motivated doesn't mean the organization as a whole is. I prefer Cerberus to the Alliance any day.

[Mangalores]

Terror organizations and crime syndicates might be good at doing their thing. They are a poor replacement for a running government, military, economy and society... and thus a poor bet to establish mankind as a dominant species. Their methods are actually counterproductive to any such longterm goal as it would only mean confrontation if supported by the Systems Alliance and confrontation should quickly shut mankind out of the loop as if we were a North Korea, **** Germany, Soviet Russia kind of diplomatic pariah.



Ingame I can't stand Cerberus. Outside the game I can't stand cerberus because I don't find it a very logic organization existing without plot fuel.

[Christmas Ape]

We need a covert operations group as much as the salarians and asari do. Just because we're clever enough to publicly disavow knowledge and support of ours doesn't mean they're a bad thing. We have the Corsairs if we need to toss the Council a bone, let Cerberus do the work we need done.

[The_N7]

 i am 

They give us big guns and things to shoot at. 

[Christmas Ape]

ShadowJ20 wrote...

All Cerberus does is screw up experiments...except when resurrecting Shepard. If you give TIM the Collector base all he'll do is try to build another reaper and control it...but they'll screw up as always and it'll be time for Shepard and company to fix mistakes.

Correction. Shepard only learns about Cerberus projects nine times, I believe:
- They kidnapped an Alliance admiral off the Citadel and assassinated him, which was then covered up. Fate of the assassination cell: unknown, assumed operational.
- They have twice used thresher maws as traps for Alliance marines, with great success, once for initial hands-on research of the species' capabilities and once as an investigation-stalling tactic. Fate of the cells: one neutralized years after the fact, one unknown and assumed operational.
- They unleased husk-creation technology on a remote pioneer team, resulting in husks. Purpose unknown. Fate of the research cell: unknown, assumed operational.
- They maintain high-risk research bases on remote, uninhabitable worlds with poor mineral resources and very little Alliance survey data. These research teams are exposed by Kahoku, possibly as the result of a Cerberus leak to shut down failed projects, and eliminated by Shepard and associates.
- They acquired 'properly matured' rachni from Binary Helix, indicating high-clearance connections within the corporation, and underestimated the intelligence of a hive-dwelling insect life form, operating on the presumption they were instinct-driven drones. One Cerberus remote facility lost, two Alliance listening posts attacked.
- Certain researchers, plagued by a poor moral compass, conduct torturous and lethal experiments on biotic potentials to explore the outer limits of the science. The facility is lost in a riot, permitting the most powerful human biotic alive (having been 'matured' at the facility) to escape.
- A research team developed successful understanding of geth language, and in pursuit of one two many shortcuts permitted several geth to network and activate an assortment of mobile platforms. Bear in mind, this also describes a certain quarian experiment from the first comma on.
- They diverted Alliance research teams from a derelict Reaper and placed their own people aboard. Underestimating the indoctrination risks posed by a 'dead' Reaper, or possibly the effects of high-strength mass effect fields on mental stability over prolonged exposure, this team is lost.
- They brought Shepard back from the dead.

That's actually a pretty decent track record, especially if you add in the whole "saved the Council from a batarian assassination attempt" thing.

Modifié par Christmas Ape, 23 juillet 2010 - 04:45 .

[mosor]

Christmas Ape wrote...

ShadowJ20 wrote...

All Cerberus does is screw up experiments...except when resurrecting Shepard. If you give TIM the Collector base all he'll do is try to build another reaper and control it...but they'll screw up as always and it'll be time for Shepard and company to fix mistakes.

Correction. Shepard only learns about Cerberus projects nine times, I believe:
- They kidnapped an Alliance admiral off the Citadel and assassinated him, which was then covered up. Fate of the assassination cell: unknown, assumed operational.
- They have twice used thresher maws as traps for Alliance marines, with great success, once for initial hands-on research of the species' capabilities and once as an investigation-stalling tactic. Fate of the cells: one neutralized years after the fact, one unknown and assumed operational.
- They unleased husk-creation technology on a remote pioneer team, resulting in husks. Purpose unknown. Fate of the research cell: unknown, assumed operational.
- They maintain high-risk research bases on remote, uninhabitable worlds with poor mineral resources and very little Alliance survey data. These research teams are exposed by Kahoku, possibly as the result of a Cerberus leak to shut down failed projects, and eliminated by Shepard and associates.
- They acquired 'properly matured' rachni from Binary Helix, indicating high-clearance connections within the corporation, and underestimated the intelligence of a hive-dwelling insect life form, operating on the presumption they were instinct-driven drones. One Cerberus remote facility lost, two Alliance listening posts attacked.
- Certain researchers, plagued by a poor moral compass, conduct torturous and lethal experiments on biotic potentials to explore the outer limits of the science. The facility is lost in a riot, permitting the most powerful human biotic alive (having been 'matured' at the facility) to escape.
- A research team developed successful understanding of geth language, and in pursuit of one two many shortcuts permitted several geth to network and activate an assortment of mobile platforms. Bear in mind, this also describes a certain quarian experiment from the first comma on.
- They diverted Alliance research teams from a derelict Reaper and placed their own people aboard. Underestimating the indoctrination risks posed by a 'dead' Reaper, or possibly the effects of high-strength mass effect fields on mental stability over prolonged exposure, this team is lost.
- They brought Shepard back from the dead.

That's actually a pretty decent track record, especially if you add in the whole "saved the Council from a batarian assassination attempt" thing.

Built EDI with by stuying salvaged reaper tech. Acumminlated enough resources to build a new normandy. Without EDI, Sheppard would have been screwed on at least a couple incidents.  Cerberus projects other than just Lazarus were a big reason for Sheppard's sucess against collectors.

Modifié par mosor, 23 juillet 2010 - 04:50 .

[Sajuro]

Christmas Ape wrote...

We need a covert operations group as much as the salarians and asari do. Just because we're clever enough to publicly disavow knowledge and support of ours doesn't mean they're a bad thing. We have the Corsairs if we need to toss the Council a bone, let Cerberus do the work we need done.

Though the Salarians and Asari special forces seem to be better liked than Cerberus so they don't need to be declared rogue

[Sajuro]

thq95 wrote...

Human dominance yes, Cerberus dominance no.

As TIM has said "Cerberus IS Humanity!"

[Christmas Ape]

Sajuro wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

We need a covert operations group as much as the salarians and asari do. Just because we're clever enough to publicly disavow knowledge and support of ours doesn't mean they're a bad thing. We have the Corsairs if we need to toss the Council a bone, let Cerberus do the work we need done.

Though the Salarians and Asari special forces seem to be better liked than Cerberus so they don't need to be declared rogue

Well, look at what happened with the salarians and the League of One. When they joined/agreed to form the Council, they opened the books to the asari as a show of good faith.
And their entire government was assassinated.
Showing your hand in the business of intelligence is suicide.

So the salarians put together the Special Tasks Group. And the Special Tasks Group helped put down the Krogan Rebellions. They're heroes.

Everybody loves asari commandos because of asari mind control, so they hardly count.

The point is, by the time humanity shows up the Council is pretty happy with the status quo. The turians feel good about having the biggest fleets and owning...I mean protecting...the volus so they're willing to power-share with the asari and salarians, the 'lesser species' can make petitions but not really get anywhere...

And here comes humanity, big athletic and clever primates who will not sit at the kid's table for one second longer than we have to, even if the First Contact War was a bloody lip and a black eye we don't mean to forget. We're bold, even a little reckless, a species of action born to see, want, take. Cerberus is that section of black operations we've all acknowledged for the better part of five hundred years 'needs to be done' but that will get our hand slapped by the Council if we admit it was us - look how they treated the quarians. But we've noticed the Council doesn't really care about a species' internal matters, only things on the galactic scale. So we'll call them "rogue", pretend to hunt them down, arrest a few from time to time, but basically funnel resources and intelligence their way as best we're able through "private backers". Win-win. Once we get a Council seat we can be "inspired" by their example, slap together the little-bit-too-transparent Corsairs for appearances, and keep shaking hands with tIM behind our backs.

[Zulu_DFA]

Christmas Ape wrote...

ShadowJ20 wrote...

All Cerberus does is screw up experiments...except when resurrecting Shepard. If you give TIM the Collector base all he'll do is try to build another reaper and control it...but they'll screw up as always and it'll be time for Shepard and company to fix mistakes.

Correction. Shepard only learns about Cerberus projects nine times, I believe:
- They kidnapped an Alliance admiral off the Citadel and assassinated him, which was then covered up. Fate of the assassination cell: unknown, assumed operational.
- They have twice used thresher maws as traps for Alliance marines, with great success, once for initial hands-on research of the species' capabilities and once as an investigation-stalling tactic. Fate of the cells: one neutralized years after the fact, one unknown and assumed operational.
- They unleased husk-creation technology on a remote pioneer team, resulting in husks. Purpose unknown. Fate of the research cell: unknown, assumed operational.
- They maintain high-risk research bases on remote, uninhabitable worlds with poor mineral resources and very little Alliance survey data. These research teams are exposed by Kahoku, possibly as the result of a Cerberus leak to shut down failed projects, and eliminated by Shepard and associates.
- They acquired 'properly matured' rachni from Binary Helix, indicating high-clearance connections within the corporation, and underestimated the intelligence of a hive-dwelling insect life form, operating on the presumption they were instinct-driven drones. One Cerberus remote facility lost, two Alliance listening posts attacked.
- Certain researchers, plagued by a poor moral compass, conduct torturous and lethal experiments on biotic potentials to explore the outer limits of the science. The facility is lost in a riot, permitting the most powerful human biotic alive (having been 'matured' at the facility) to escape.
- A research team developed successful understanding of geth language, and in pursuit of one two many shortcuts permitted several geth to network and activate an assortment of mobile platforms. Bear in mind, this also describes a certain quarian experiment from the first comma on.
- They diverted Alliance research teams from a derelict Reaper and placed their own people aboard. Underestimating the indoctrination risks posed by a 'dead' Reaper, or possibly the effects of high-strength mass effect fields on mental stability over prolonged exposure, this team is lost.
- They brought Shepard back from the dead.

That's actually a pretty decent track record, especially if you add in the whole "saved the Council from a batarian assassination attempt" thing.

Incorrect.

[Christmas Ape]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...
- They unleased husk-creation technology on a remote pioneer team, resulting in husks. Purpose unknown. Fate of the research cell: unknown, assumed operational.

Incorrect.

Personal intensity doesn't make it true. Cite your source?