1536 réponses à ce sujet

[mllrthyme]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

There's a group of us here.  Girls Against Carth Syndrome.  Join us in the shadows, where we stand vigilant against Carth Syndrome! http://social.bioware.com/group/1163/

The Carth Syndrome is one variant of a kind of romance that I find both creepy and downright un-fun, almost without exception--the dreaded therapymance.  I'm a freaking hero(ine).  I'm a Jedi, Sith, Warden, Bhaalspawn, Knight Captain, Spectre, etc.  I kick ass, take names, make friends, make enemies, make love, save the known universe, shoot lightning at fools, and do it all with epic style.  Nowhere in my job description is "psychologist for crazy people."  

NPCs, I will happily be your friend or even lover.  I will snipe, spill drinks on the Citadel, snark, eat cheese, sing songs, hunt devils, and consult space hamsters with you.  I'll be a shoulder to cry on; I will support and enable your growth as a person to the best of my ability.  Because that's what friends do.  But I will not be your therapist.  I will not sit there and listen to you whine incessantly about your dead spouse, estranged child, daddy issues, mommy issues, dead dog, or toe bunions.  I will happily help you find a therapist, but if you can't deal with your problems in a reasonably constructive manner without sobbing on my shoulder every other conversation, I'm kicking you out.  You're just not cool enough to be around me.  END OF LINE.

Sable, you are my hero.

[Riona45]

Saibh wrote...
Also, god, no I'd hate having to fight for a guy. Hate it, hate it, hate it. What sort of douchebag just sits back and watches as two women duke it out for him? What, winner take all? How is that love? How does he care? He can't make a decision on his own, he needs his love interests to do it? To me, it doesn't make the chase "harder" it makes it worthless. He's an adult, he should make these decisions. If a random old flame showed up and claimed him, and his answer was "Oh....hmmm...I don't know...." that just tells me he's not ready for another relationship. I like draaa~ma in my LIs, I like conflict, but I expect him to, in the end, actually love me.

Do you mind if I applaud you?  That was very well said.

[phaonica]

I will support and enable your growth as a person to the best of my ability. Because that's what friends do. But I will not be your therapist.

It seems like a game relationship would be kind of boring without some kind of conflict. If the conflict isn't baggage, and the conflict isn't having to play therapist, what kind of conflict is acceptable?

[Riona45]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...


I can't find the thread anymore in which Gaider is legitimately creeped out at the idea of a Cullenmance, but I wish I could have it on hand to quote whenever anyone waxes lyrical about Cullen   Possessive, obsessive, jealous, stalking relationships ARE NOT CUTE.  I know it's a "Your Mileage May Vary" kind of thing, but I wonder sometimes.

I'm not in favor of a Cullen romance, necessarily, but I will say that there was little evidence in-game that Cullen in the mage origin was anything you mentioned except for obsessive (he had the potential to be all those things, but I'm going by what was actually there).  After all, there was no romantic relationship there to begin--to me, the point of it being an infatuation was that it was one-sided and he tried to keep it a secret from you and everyone else.  I didn't try this in-game, but I've read that if you actually do try to tell him you're interested, he gets flustered, excuses himself and leaves.

Modifié par Riona45, 31 juillet 2010 - 02:39 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

mllrthyme wrote...

Sable, you are my hero.

*bows* I try 

phaonica wrote...

I will support and enable your growth as a person to the best of my ability. Because that's what friends do. But I will not be your therapist.

It seems like a game relationship would be kind of boring without some kind of conflict. If the conflict isn't baggage, and the conflict isn't having to play therapist, what kind of conflict is acceptable?

I'm fine with a little emotional baggage.  Alistair had issues.  He had confidence issues, daddy issues, leadership issues, etc.  These are all normal issues that plenty of people had.  The Warden had the opportunity to support him, to lend him strength as a person.  But Alistair also grew plenty as a person on his own.  He didn't need the Warden to "fix" him.

I'm not opposed to conflict.  I'm not opposed to character growth.  I'm opposed to having to "fix" people.  It's a difference of degree, not of kind.  And I agree that there's a subtle difference, and Your Mileage May Vary. My criteria for a therapy romance is this: can I have a meaningful relationship full of growth with the NPC and help him/her improve as a person without romance?  If not, then it's probably a therapy romance.  You HAVE to romance the character to fix them.  Friendship isn't enough.  And right about there is where alarm bells going "ACHTUNG!  ACHTUNG!  EVICT FROM PARTY!" go off in my head.

[mllrthyme]

phaonica wrote...

I will support and enable your growth as a person to the best of my ability. Because that's what friends do. But I will not be your therapist.

It seems like a game relationship would be kind of boring without some kind of conflict. If the conflict isn't baggage, and the conflict isn't having to play therapist, what kind of conflict is acceptable?

I've got no problem with baggage and/or conflict - everybody's got it, but when the character dialogue centers around that baggage/conflict and you have to help them resolve it.  You have to help them get over their emotional issues such as grief, loss of self-confidence, or betrayal.  What about something new, like helping a LI plan revenge again an old nemisis (we kind of saw this with Leliana), or a side mission to find a mystical cure for their curse?  I'm sorry, but I'm not a story-teller, but I guess I just want something other than talking about emotional issues.  You know, I don't remember an LI even once asking how I'm doing?  How's that for one-sided?

[Riona45]

AllThatJazz wrote...

Felfenix wrote...

Love interest who is an evil mage guy, like a male Morrigan, please.

Like Edwin from Baldur's Gate? Or more 'wild'?

There actually is an Edwin romance mod (which I have not played and can't comment on), but Edwin in the game as presented was pretty much a jerkass to everyone and showed no particular romantic inclinations.  Obviously, some people found him attractive, but I don't remember him having a huge crowd of fans who wanted him as a romance option. 

Modifié par Riona45, 31 juillet 2010 - 03:13 .

[Riona45]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
Oh David Gaider.  You so cool.  And I SOOOOO agree with you.  Mage/templar relationships are creepy as all hell.  Alistair doesn't count, because he was the world's dopiest creature...and probably would have been the worst templar ever.

And he never became a real templar in the first place.

[Saibh]

Riona45 wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...


I can't find the thread anymore in which Gaider is legitimately creeped out at the idea of a Cullenmance, but I wish I could have it on hand to quote whenever anyone waxes lyrical about Cullen   Possessive, obsessive, jealous, stalking relationships ARE NOT CUTE.  I know it's a "Your Mileage May Vary" kind of thing, but I wonder sometimes.

I'm not in favor of a Cullen romance, necessarily, but I will say that there was little evidence in-game that Cullen in the mage origin was anything you mentioned except for obsessive (he had the potential to be all those things, but I'm going by what was actually there).  After all, there was no romantic relationship there to begin--to me, the point of it being an infatuation was that it was one-sided and he tried to keep it a secret from you and everyone else.  I didn't try this in-game, but I've read that if you actually do try to tell him you're interested, he gets flustered, excuses himself and leaves.

During the Origin bits, I sort of shrugged and thought he was cute. Mage Origin was the first one I played, and I could still see leaving the Circle forever coming from a mile away, so I assumed that Cullen wouldn't play a role (of course, he did, but not in a way I would have suspected). He was a surprising addition that helped flesh out the world and the Origin.

Also, Cullen was terrible about his crush. Jowan, after like, a line of hearing Cullen speak whispers that he notices it. And then there's that chick that gossips about you, and another chick that gets all snooty about your accomplishments because Cullen is the one that said them.

I guess what I really would have liked to see is what do they do to templars that get into that kind of situation? I mean, he wasn't subtle, but he wasn't betraying the templars either. Do they move him from the Tower or something? Move the mage?

And, Sable, I joined that Carth Syndrome group and I'm so glad you showed me.

Back on topic...You know, when I say I'd like a "bad boy", I don't think I mean arrogant like Anomen or completely a jerkass like Bishop. Bishop had his charms, certainly, but I'd prefer not to be called a wh*re. Maybe...Bishop's danger with Alistair's sincerity.

Or a seven-foot-tall qunari, take your pick.

[Bryy_Miller]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

mllrthyme wrote...

Sable, you are my hero.

*bows* I try 

phaonica wrote...

I will support and enable your growth as a person to the best of my ability. Because that's what friends do. But I will not be your therapist.

It seems like a game relationship would be kind of boring without some kind of conflict. If the conflict isn't baggage, and the conflict isn't having to play therapist, what kind of conflict is acceptable?

I'm fine with a little emotional baggage.  Alistair had issues.  He had confidence issues, daddy issues, leadership issues, etc.  These are all normal issues that plenty of people had.  The Warden had the opportunity to support him, to lend him strength as a person.  But Alistair also grew plenty as a person on his own.  He didn't need the Warden to "fix" him.

I'm not opposed to conflict.  I'm not opposed to character growth.  I'm opposed to having to "fix" people.  It's a difference of degree, not of kind.  And I agree that there's a subtle difference, and Your Mileage May Vary. My criteria for a therapy romance is this: can I have a meaningful relationship full of growth with the NPC and help him/her improve as a person without romance?  If not, then it's probably a therapy romance.  You HAVE to romance the character to fix them.  Friendship isn't enough.  And right about there is where alarm bells going "ACHTUNG!  ACHTUNG!  EVICT FROM PARTY!" go off in my head.

Did you come from heaven to save us all?

[Riona45]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...


The Carth Syndrome is one variant of a kind of romance that I find both creepy and downright un-fun, almost without exception--the dreaded therapymance.  I'm a freaking hero(ine).  I'm a Jedi, Sith, Warden, Bhaalspawn, Knight Captain, Spectre, etc.  I kick ass, take names, make friends, make enemies, make love, save the known universe, shoot lightning at fools, and do it all with epic style.  Nowhere in my job description is "psychologist for crazy people."  

That was hilarious!

[Sable Rhapsody]

Riona45 wrote...

There actually is an Edwin romance mod (which I have not played and can't comment on), but Edwin in the game as presented was pretty much a jerkass to everyone who showed no particular romantic inclinations.  Obviously, some people found him attractive, but I don't remember him having a huge crowd of fans who wanted him as a romance option. 

I've played some of it.  The Edwin romance mod is more played for lulz--it's pretty hilarious, and it's just priceless when Edwin has his little encounter with the Nether scroll.  But I don't think it was meant to be taken too seriously.

And that's another thing for romances--LAUGHTER.  I'm willing to forgive quite a few shortcomings in a romance if it feels like there's genuine joy in the relationship.  Atton is riddled with issues, and his "romance" has some definite therapy overtones.  But Atton made me laugh.  You engage in romances for happiness, not to make yourself miserable.  I'm all for drama, but if the only quality to a romance is wangst, it becomes Strangled with the Red String.  And I do not want.

Bryy_Miller wrote...
Did you come from heaven to save us all?

*snicker*  My less facetious answer is that Wynne (the forumgoer, not the NPC) is the one who rails most eloquently against the Carth Syndrome on the Girls Against Carth Syndrome group.  My facetious answer is that I will SMITE THE FAIL OF WANGST WITH THE SWORD OF CHEESE WHEELS!

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 31 juillet 2010 - 03:03 .

[Riona45]

mllrthyme wrote...

You know, I don't remember an LI even once asking how I'm doing?  How's that for one-sided?

Yes, that's an issue I've noticed in a lot of these romances, in which you offer your LI a shoulder to cry on...but they don't necessarily give you theirs in return.  I did appreciate Alistair acknowledging that the PC was missing the "fun part of being a Warden" and she wasn't having an easy time of things either.  It was little, but I appreciated him noticing that he wasn't the only one with problems.

[Bryy_Miller]

Sable, you and a few others are the only reason I have a growing need for an MMO Dragon Age.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Saibh wrote...You know, when I say I'd like a "bad boy", I don't think I mean arrogant like Anomen or completely a jerkass like Bishop. Bishop had his charms, certainly, but I'd prefer not to be called a wh*re. Maybe...Bishop's danger with Alistair's sincerity.



Or a seven-foot-tall qunari, take your pick.

Damn you, Saibh. You know how I am about the new qunari. DO. WANT.

As for bad boys, I'm 100% fine with bad boys. I like them. I think it's a healthy way to get my "bad boys are sexy" thing out of my system without having it spill over into my real life behavior. But I like bad boys played straight in video games, where you KNOW they're potentially bad news and you go for it anyway. Like Bishop, or even Atton.

[Riona45]

Saibh wrote...


During the Origin bits, I sort of shrugged and thought he was cute. Mage Origin was the first one I played, and I could still see leaving the Circle forever coming from a mile away, so I assumed that Cullen wouldn't play a role (of course, he did, but not in a way I would have suspected). He was a surprising addition that helped flesh out the world and the Origin.

Agreed!  I did think Cullen was kind of cute, although I think it's still fair to call him obsessive (though that's a perfectly normal part of having a crush on someone).

Also, Cullen was terrible about his crush. Jowan, after like, a line of hearing Cullen speak whispers that he notices it. And then there's that chick that gossips about you, and another chick that gets all snooty about your accomplishments because Cullen is the one that said them.

Well yeah, he wasn't necessarily good at keeping his secret--I was just pointing out that there wasn't any romantic relationship there in the first place.  If there was, your dialogue with him would have been much different. 

I guess what I really would have liked to see is what do they do to templars that get into that kind of situation? I mean, he wasn't subtle, but he wasn't betraying the templars either. Do they move him from the Tower or something? Move the mage?

Who knows.  I do know that they should have gotten rid of him as soon as he showed murderous tendencies, but that's just me...

Back on topic...You know, when I say I'd like a "bad boy", I don't think I mean arrogant like Anomen or completely a jerkass like Bishop. Bishop had his charms, certainly, but I'd prefer not to be called a wh*re. Maybe...Bishop's danger with Alistair's sincerity.

How about a sparkly vampire?

*snerks*

Modifié par Riona45, 31 juillet 2010 - 03:16 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

jln.francisco wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

There's a group of us here.  Girls Against Carth Syndrome.  Join us in the shadows, where we stand vigilant against Carth Syndrome! http://social.bioware.com/group/1163/

The Carth Syndrome is one variant of a kind of romance that I find both creepy and downright un-fun, almost without exception--the dreaded therapymance.  I'm a freaking hero(ine).  I'm a Jedi, Sith, Warden, Bhaalspawn, Knight Captain, Spectre, etc.  I kick ass, take names, make friends, make enemies, make love, save the known universe, shoot lightning at fools, and do it all with epic style.  Nowhere in my job description is "psychologist for crazy people." 

Does having a Y chromosome disqualify someone from membership?

Not in the slightest.  It was originally made, I believe, in response to the revelation that Thane was afflicted with the Carth Syndrome, so it was mostly girls at the start.  But we love everyone   'Cept lame LIs.  You're not Jacob Taylor in disguise...are you?

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Sable, you and a few others are the only reason I have a growing need for an MMO Dragon Age.

There is, funnily enough, a multiplayer Dragon Age.  The tabletop game.  For now, I think that and Gametable is the closest you're getting to a DA MMO.

[Bryy_Miller]

Then we all need to do this. We all should schedule doing a DA game at SDCC 2011 or some neutral Con. Anyone can come. We should totally make a BioWare Forums Dragon Age Gaming.... thing.

[Riona45]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...


And that's another thing for romances--LAUGHTER.  I'm willing to forgive quite a few shortcomings in a romance if it feels like there's genuine joy in the relationship.  Atton is riddled with issues, and his "romance" has some definite therapy overtones.  But Atton made me laugh.  You engage in romances for happiness, not to make yourself miserable.  

I agree.  Alistair definitely made me laugh.

[Saibh]

Riona45 wrote...

How about a sparkly vampire?

*snerks*

Har. Har. Har. You forgot the .

Ignore the ugly.

Modifié par Saibh, 31 juillet 2010 - 03:26 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Then we all need to do this. We all should schedule doing a DA game at SDCC 2011 or some neutral Con. Anyone can come. We should totally make a BioWare Forums Dragon Age Gaming.... thing.

I used to do the Mass Effect RP on Facebook with some folks from the BioWare forums before it a) got too big and ridiculous and I started traveling in Europe.  And all you need to play tabletop games online is Gametable, and something like Hamachi.  It simulates a tabletop for you.

Saibh wrote...

Har. Har. Har.  You forgot the .

Ignore the ugly.

I have one thing to say about sparkly creatures that may or may not be undead: glitter is a B**** to remove.  Most tenacious stuff ever.

[mllrthyme]

Qunari bad-boy? Anyone?

And if he gets too Bishop-y, we can use a persuade/intimidate check to take him by the horns...erm, so to speak.

[Riona45]

Saibh wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

How about a sparkly vampire?

*snerks*

Har. Har. Har. You forgot the .

Ignore the ugly.

LOL!  I couldn't resist.  And I love the text!

PS:  I do find it hilarious how the sparkles in the movie were made with glitter glue!

Modifié par Riona45, 31 juillet 2010 - 03:36 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

mllrthyme wrote...

Qunari bad-boy? Anyone?
And if he gets too Bishop-y, we can use a persuade/intimidate check to take him by the horns...erm, so to speak.

*nosebleed*

That....that's channeling Bishop, Valen, and sexy new qunari.  That is too sexy for its shirt.  So sexy it hurts.