1536 réponses à ce sujet

[Krytheos]

Hrmn. Romance wise, I'd definitely enjoy a Bishop-y bad-boy, bonus points for it being a Qunari. Even with their weird, and supposedly-really painful sexness.



An Ozai-type of human character with massive ambition; female Alistair, only without the whole 'former Templar' business.



A male Dwarf, definitely. I would at least like to see one in the future if anything. D:



An assassin-type who isn't Zevran, and is, for all intents and purposes, a real Assassin who isn't exactly 'nice' to you to begin with at all, and doesn't come with an extremely traumatic experience. Artemis Entreri type of assassin, for instance.



And since I mentioned Artemis, I would absolutely adore a Jarlaxle-type of romance character, especially if it was a male. I would also like to see personality-specific sex scenes, which I understand isn't exactly good for budgetness, but still, I'd love to see it. Where one is a virgin, the sex scene is more sweet, and innocent vs. the not-so-sweet-and-innocentness of say, an Ozai-type, and maybe even just ONE or two scene's of your LI -- or a potential LI -- coming up during a particularly traumatic event to console/comfort you in some way would be a nice touch, especially set to beautiful musical composition, and scenery.

[Sable Rhapsody]

mopotter wrote...

But I don't feel like I've every "fixed" any of them.  I enjoyed talking to Carth about his wife.  I liked the fact that he saw something he loved in her in my character.  His trust issues?  I'm not in a video game, but I had them and didn't have near the reason Carth did.      

I'm not contesting the quality of Carth's writing, dialog, etc.  I thought Carth was very well done, I just couldn't stand him   But play through again with a male Revan, and have a look at how fewer options you have to bond with Carth and talk to him about his son, his wife, his past, etc.  The ME2 case, the default LIs in Baldur's Gate...they share the exact same problem where you HAVE to get into their pants in order to help them evolve as individuals.  

[Sable Rhapsody]

zazei wrote...
Anyway one thing I would really like in a future romance is the ability to argue and possibly even have a huge fight with the NPC without ending the romance for good. After years of playing Bioware games I'll gotten to a point where I'm afraid to pick the option I really want to with certain NPC's because I know they disagree and in most earlier games not agreeing with them on pretty much everything ment the romance would end.

Even though it's possible to disagree with dragon age companions and still carry on the romance you still pretty much have to go out of your way to make sure they stay happy or they get mad for good. I understand a relationship need to build on something but considering it's a sort of one way street I consider it a bit unfair. None of the dragon age companions was ever that supportive of our grey wardens problems for example.

Wynne was good about doing the motherly thing.  And even though it didn't come out specifically in her dialog, I got a distinct momma bear feeling from Samara in ME2.  But you're right about DA:O.  The companions were more fleshed out in that they each had fundamental personality traits and beliefs that the PC couldn't sway, just like people in real life.  If you hit their moral event horizon, that was it for them.  But the converse, the companions recognizing the PC's thoughts, beliefs, feelings, etc. and responding accordingly wasn't implemented.

Funnily enough, the first place I ever came across romances that could be contested without being broken were in mods.  Specifically NPC mods for the Baldur's Gate series.  Now, I know there are a lot of ****tastic mods out there, but some aren't half bad.  They package in a sliding approval variable, and PC conversation options will shift the variable up or down.  If it falls too low, they'll break the romance, but it's possible for the approval variable to take a few hits before the romance breaks.  And hey, DA:O already has the approval system already.  Why not just implement the rest?

[zazei]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Wynne was good about doing the motherly thing.  And even though it didn't come out specifically in her dialog, I got a distinct momma bear feeling from Samara in ME2.  But you're right about DA:O.  The companions were more fleshed out in that they each had fundamental personality traits and beliefs that the PC couldn't sway, just like people in real life.  If you hit their moral event horizon, that was it for them.  But the converse, the companions recognizing the PC's thoughts, beliefs, feelings, etc. and responding accordingly wasn't implemented.

Funnily enough, the first place I ever came across romances that could be contested without being broken were in mods.  Specifically NPC mods for the Baldur's Gate series.  Now, I know there are a lot of ****tastic mods out there, but some aren't half bad.  They package in a sliding approval variable, and PC conversation options will shift the variable up or down.  If it falls too low, they'll break the romance, but it's possible for the approval variable to take a few hits before the romance breaks.  And hey, DA:O already has the approval system already.  Why not just implement the rest?

I agree with your opinion on BG2 mods, in fact I would say some of them could be used as examples of the best romances I ever seen in computer games. Think Xan is my favorite to date.

I would love if Bioware tried to do something similar as well and allow the NPC to ask and mention things about our own characters. I don't get why Bioware go through all the trouble of creating histories and past for our characters when they never let us go anywhere with it outside of special occasions. Worst example for me was how no companion ever said anything to a dwarf when they returned to Orzamaar. For all intends and purposes it was like none of them ever noticed anything was wrong when everyone regarded the dwarf commoner with contempt or how the dwarf noble was a exiles princess.

[mopotter]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

mopotter wrote...

But I don't feel like I've every "fixed" any of them.  I enjoyed talking to Carth about his wife.  I liked the fact that he saw something he loved in her in my character.  His trust issues?  I'm not in a video game, but I had them and didn't have near the reason Carth did.      

I'm not contesting the quality of Carth's writing, dialog, etc.  I thought Carth was very well done, I just couldn't stand him   But play through again with a male Revan, and have a look at how fewer options you have to bond with Carth and talk to him about his son, his wife, his past, etc.  The ME2 case, the default LIs in Baldur's Gate...they share the exact same problem where you HAVE to get into their pants in order to help them evolve as individuals.  

I did play as male more than once.  I just fell in love with Carth.  Well 2nd to my husband of course.  I'm one of the  I'll play almost any option (except evil) you give me people-   I liked the Bastila romance too.  My male Revan teased her a lot.  one of my favorites:
Revan: You have something you want to ask me?Bastila Shan: I do. How did you know?Revan: Well...your face is all scrunched up like a kinrath pup.Bastila Shan: A... a kinrath pup?! It most certainly is not! I am a Jedi, remember? I have far too much mental discipline to reveal what goes on inside my mind with such obvious physical clues. My thoughts remain hidden, including whatever my feelings are for you. Uh, I mean whatever I feel *about* you… uh, I mean whatever I *think* about you.Revan: You’re so cute when you’re embarrassed.Bastila Shan: I, that is, you… why must you be so positively infuriating?![/list]I do agree that it would be really a plus to be able to ask questions as a friend.  

[mopotter]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

zazei wrote...
Anyway one thing I would really like in a future romance is the ability to argue and possibly even have a huge fight with the NPC without ending the romance for good. After years of playing Bioware games I'll gotten to a point where I'm afraid to pick the option I really want to with certain NPC's because I know they disagree and in most earlier games not agreeing with them on pretty much everything ment the romance would end.

Even though it's possible to disagree with dragon age companions and still carry on the romance you still pretty much have to go out of your way to make sure they stay happy or they get mad for good. I understand a relationship need to build on something but considering it's a sort of one way street I consider it a bit unfair. None of the dragon age companions was ever that supportive of our grey wardens problems for example.

Wynne was good about doing the motherly thing.  And even though it didn't come out specifically in her dialog, I got a distinct momma bear feeling from Samara in ME2.  But you're right about DA:O.  The companions were more fleshed out in that they each had fundamental personality traits and beliefs that the PC couldn't sway, just like people in real life.  If you hit their moral event horizon, that was it for them.  But the converse, the companions recognizing the PC's thoughts, beliefs, feelings, etc. and responding accordingly wasn't implemented.

Funnily enough, the first place I ever came across romances that could be contested without being broken were in mods.  Specifically NPC mods for the Baldur's Gate series.  Now, I know there are a lot of ****tastic mods out there, but some aren't half bad.  They package in a sliding approval variable, and PC conversation options will shift the variable up or down.  If it falls too low, they'll break the romance, but it's possible for the approval variable to take a few hits before the romance breaks.  And hey, DA:O already has the approval system already.  Why not just implement the rest?

Some games I like to play on the pc because of the mods.  There were a couple of neverwinter night ones that I played.  A couple of them were funny I seem to remember one was pretty much see how many guys you can have sex with and get lots of different outfits.  But in it's way, it was rather entertaining.

[Riona45]

mopotter wrote...

But I don't feel like I've every "fixed" any of them.  I enjoyed talking to Carth about his wife.  I liked the fact that he saw something he loved in her in my character.  His trust issues?  I'm not in a video game, but I had them and didn't have near the reason Carth did.      

I don't think people are bothered by the fact that Carth had trust issues, so much as how he keep repeating to you that he had them in, like, every conversation.  It wasn't done in a very subtle way.

[Riona45]

RPGmom28 wrote...

Did you know that if you romance Jacob in ME2, he asks you how you're feeling and what's bothering you? You get a big list of things to answer with, too.

Didn't know that--thanks for sharing.

[Riona45]

zazei wrote...

I remember that! Mostly because it was the only part of the Jacob romance that was accually any good. xD
Anyway one thing I would really like in a future romance is the ability to argue and possibly even have a huge fight with the NPC without ending the romance for good. After years of playing Bioware games I'll gotten to a point where I'm afraid to pick the option I really want to with certain NPC's because I know they disagree and in most earlier games not agreeing with them on pretty much everything ment the romance would end.

That's a really good point.  On the other hand, let me bring up the character Anomen from Baldur's Gate 2.  A few times during his romance track, he will get angry with you regardless of what you say and do as part of the plot.  This ranges from snapping at you to (most likely) shouting, as at one point his dialogue has a word (or more) in all caps.  There are some people who interpreted this as him being an abusive partner even though--in my opinion--it nicely illustrated that he was going through some dark times* and therefore made sense, even if it wasn't always fair.


*Of course, so was the PC, but that's an issue that was touched on earlier.

[JHByrne]

Oh, I gotta for for a DarkSpawn female! Ooo yeeea! Not a Broodmother, mind you, but one of those cute lil' boil and wart covered darkspawn babes in a chainmail bikini... the way they wiggle their little nose holes, their sharp lil' fangs, that glorious odor.... ROWWR!

[Sable Rhapsody]

Riona45 wrote...

I don't think people are bothered by the fact that Carth had trust issues, so much as how he keep repeating to you that he had them in, like, every conversation.  It wasn't done in a very subtle way.

You know, I always wonder why NPCs in every game will try to out-angst the PC.  Anomen is a decent example of this, but there are others too.  The point is that in a BioWare or Obsidian RPG, it is impossible to out-angst the PC.  The PC will, in 99% of cases, have the suckiest backstory, the worst luck, the dead-est family, be Blessed with Suck/Cursed with Awesome, riddled with potential issues...and funnily enough, complain the least.  I'm sorry, but my sympathy for Aerie's whining about her wings takes a huge hit when my sister and I just got our souls sucked out like soda through a straw.  And I kind of wanted to hit Juhani when she went off about her troubles staying on the Light Side--it was like, "Hello?  FORMER DARK LORD HERE.  HAVING MORE TROUBLE THAN YOU KTHNXBAI."  I'm fine with NPCs having issues, it's what makes them interesting.  But whenever it becomes the one thing they fixate on and talk about, I just want to smack them silly.  Probably explains why I had so much trouble with Carth and Kaidan.  F-ing brain camp.

zazei wrote...

I agree with your opinion on BG2 mods, in fact I would say some of them could be used as examples of the best romances I ever seen in computer games. Think Xan is my favorite to date. 

I would love if Bioware tried to do something similar as well and allow the NPC to ask and mention things about our own characters. I don't get why Bioware go through all the trouble of creating histories and past for our characters when they never let us go anywhere with it outside of special occasions. Worst example for me was how no companion ever said anything to a dwarf when they returned to Orzamaar. For all intends and purposes it was like none of them ever noticed anything was wrong when everyone regarded the dwarf commoner with contempt or how the dwarf noble was a exiles princess. 

Oh, I'm not disparaging mods in general by any means.  I can't romance Anomen, he's my punching bag   The ones I've enjoyed have been Sola, Kivan, and Xan on the friendship path.  But yeah, one of the things I loved about mods was how a lot of them worked in questions and comments from NPCs on the PC's life, story, feelings, etc.  I'd love to see that in DA2.

[mopotter]

Ineffable Igor wrote...

For a male LI, I would love to have a character like Angel from Buffy.  Well, more from Angel: The Series than from Buffy, since that was where he really got fleshed out, being the lead and all.  A basically good fence-sitter who is capable of both wonderful and horrible things depending on what the situation calls for.  Dark and a bit broody but with a healthy amount of goofy quirks and a sense of humor.  A good boy, but with the potential to be very bad depending on how you play the game.  Snarky tendencies would be a major plus.

I want someone who is less of a follower and more of a co-captain, somone who understands the weight of responsibility that my character can relate to while playing the hero role.  The other important aspect of this would be a strong basis of friendship.  One of the things I liked best about HotU and KotOR was how drawn out things were.  You had to establish trust and a non-romantic bond with your love interest before you got your smoochies.   This system was not ideal, but it did eliminate the whole "gain too much influence at once and suddenly this character is in love with you even though they only joined the party a day ago" situation that I've come across in some of the more recent BioWare games.  Dragon Age handled that pretty well, you could gauge your influence and give it a little boost now and then if you wanted.

Basically I'm saying I want a heinously complex interpersonal relationship that is established and maintained over the course of ten years and beyond.   

I lOVE  Buffy it's the only tv show I ever made sure I had nothing planned for the evening and Angle drove me nuts.  He was soooooo Broody.  Your right, when he got his own show, he developed a sense of humor and I started enjoying him.    
Just about any of the "type" of guys or girls from that show would be great.  Smart wizard - Giles (my favorite librarian);  witch who is good but can be turned evil - Willow or tara - evil b** Drusilla who frightened me she was so sweet and evil.  
And this will show you where I'm at.  I adored Riley Finn!  My husband and step-daughter teased me mercessily.  He was my hero defined.  I was really happy when he came back married and happy.     Yes he even had a cowboy outfit in one of the eps.  <sigh>    

Give me someone like that.  well, or like Giles or Angel from his own show, or Oz!   

"Basically I'm saying I want a heinously complex interpersonal relationship that is established and maintained over the course of ten years and beyond. "  This would make me very happy with whatever LI they give us.
     

[AloraKast]

Oh my, I am LOVING this thread! So many points of view, so many varied LIs explored... Someone ought to print the whole thing off and place it right under Mr. Gaider's nose.

ankuu wrote...

I would want an Anders type caharcter
too...he is a good mix of Zev and Alistair, the best of both worlds!
Still i would have wanted him to be a little less....perverted...

LOL, I hear ya ankuu... I certainly understand where you're coming from. Although I suppose it's all part of his charm. Just one aspect of this alluring package that is Anders... Although I suppose, aye, a little bit less of the whole perverted thing might be an improvement.. but just a tad mind you, if we get too little of it, we'll end up with Alistair!

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

There's a group of us here.  Girls Against Carth Syndrome.  Join us in the shadows, where we stand vigilant against Carth Syndrome! http://social.bioware.com/group/1163/

The Carth Syndrome is one variant of a kind of romance that I find both creepy and downright un-fun, almost without exception--the dreaded therapymance.  I'm a freaking hero(ine).  I'm a Jedi, Sith, Warden, Bhaalspawn, Knight Captain, Spectre, etc.  I kick ass, take names, make friends, make enemies, make love, save the known universe, shoot lightning at fools, and do it all with epic style.  Nowhere in my job description is "psychologist for crazy people."  

NPCs, I will happily be your friend or even lover.  I will snipe, spill drinks on the Citadel, snark, eat cheese, sing songs, hunt devils, and consult space hamsters with you.  I'll be a shoulder to cry on; I will support and enable your growth as a person to the best of my ability.  Because that's what friends do.  But I will not be your therapist.  I will not sit there and listen to you whine incessantly about your dead spouse, estranged child, daddy issues, mommy issues, dead dog, or toe bunions.  I will happily help you find a therapist, but if you can't deal with your problems in a reasonably constructive manner without sobbing on my shoulder every other conversation, I'm kicking you out.  You're just not cool enough to be around me.  END OF LINE.

Oh Sable... you are amazing. Rock on Girl!

I can definitely see your point of view... and sometimes wish I could be just as baddass. Alas, I suppose, I find those wounded/needy archetypes more alluring... BUT... there is a limit of just how much of the needy thing one can take! It's all about balance, people!

Am thinking that between Alistair and Carth... I would definitely go for Carth, for he was more of this injured soul, went through some horrible things (having the spouce you love with all your heart be ripped away from you so cruelly... and in a sense losing your child as well.... that's some powerful stuff right there) and his faith in people has been shaken to the core. But I find Carth an able and resourceful commander. He could still get the job done. Yes, he did need a "therapist" to help him get over the whole mistrusting the entire universe thing, someone to show him, that despite everything bad that he has experienced and despite what he may think, yes, it's possible for him to love again. With Alistair, I sometimes felt I needed to help him tie his shoe laces, for he wasn't even able to do that on his own.  Sorry Alistair, I want a MAN!

That is why I find Zev so appealing, methinks. I find Zev incredibly alluring because he is very able, he can stand on his own two feet, despite everything that he has been afflicted with from the very beginning of his life, he is resourcefull and got a little bit of a darkness to him (although, like I said before, a bit more darkness would be even better). It is SOOO easy to dismiss him right away (at first, I did ), because of the persona that he projects for the world to see. But if you dig deep (and sometimes you have to dig really deep - which I find part of this whole fascinating process, you actually have to work at getting to the person he is), you will find this wondrous treasure, a sensitive heart, a true and loyal friend, and yes, even a wounded soul that you can help heal.

I tend to go back to this quote of Zev's which I always found fascinating and appealing:

"I was born of a **** and bred as an assassin. All I know is pleasure and death. What room is there in these things for love?"

With Zev, I find I can have the best of both worlds. He can be a resourceful, lethal, take-charge individual and he can also be a sensitive and loyal protector of both your person and your heart.

For me, if you take a Zev model, add more darkness to him, add some more scars (a tattoo or two more would be cool too ), maybe grow him out a bit more and make sure you encase his true essence in walls that are difficult, but not impossible, to break through... Yeah, that would be ideal for me.

EDIT: Ah, stupid forum filters, quit messing with my fave quote, dammit!

Modifié par AloraKast, 01 août 2010 - 05:42 .

[JHByrne]

Why is it that you females, above, feel the need to mix 'love' into war? There's just no place for it. As a warden, you're gonna die, but not before you slaughter 100s of critters. At least Zevran and Morrigan have things figured out. Oghren's alright too. Sten never bothers with the love interest crap.



Lelian's just a liar and a hypocrite. Alistair... my god...whiny little sob-boy. Ooo, boohoo.... I'm a bastard, raised in a barn, no family.



Uh... so? It's the freakin' Dark Ages, man! Look around, almost EVERYONE lives in a damned barn! Even the 'glorious market place in Denerim, the jewel of Ferelden', is a ragged looking patch of booths on muddy ground.

So... any of you girls ever spend time in a real military/combat situation? The trick is, you're surrounded by ugly sh*t all the time. You drink,curse it out, and drive on. No crying allowed.



I might make an exception for Sable Rapsody there, but the whiny types among you... go read a Cosmopolitan or Seventeen magazine, will ya?

[mopotter]

JHByrne wrote...

Why is it that you females, above, feel the need to mix 'love' into war? There's just no place for it. As a warden, you're gonna die, but not before you slaughter 100s of critters. At least Zevran and Morrigan have things figured out. Oghren's alright too. Sten never bothers with the love interest crap.

Lelian's just a liar and a hypocrite. Alistair... my god...whiny little sob-boy. Ooo, boohoo.... I'm a bastard, raised in a barn, no family.

Uh... so? It's the freakin' Dark Ages, man! Look around, almost EVERYONE lives in a damned barn! Even the 'glorious market place in Denerim, the jewel of Ferelden', is a ragged looking patch of booths on muddy ground.
So... any of you girls ever spend time in a real military/combat situation? The trick is, you're surrounded by ugly sh*t all the time. You drink,curse it out, and drive on. No crying allowed.

I might make an exception for Sable Rapsody there, but the whiny types among you... go read a Cosmopolitan or Seventeen magazine, will ya?

Your kidding right.  Either that or you have never watched any fantasy dragon age type movies, or WWI and II and even some of the more recent movies.  Love is anywhere two people who have that connection are.   Love can be found anywhere  and it's a fantasy video game so it's even better.  

[ELE08]

JHByrne wrote...

Why is it that you females, above, feel the need to mix 'love' into war? There's just no place for it. As a warden, you're gonna die, but not before you slaughter 100s of critters. At least Zevran and Morrigan have things figured out. Oghren's alright too. Sten never bothers with the love interest crap.
...
So... any of you girls ever spend time in a real military/combat situation? The trick is, you're surrounded by ugly sh*t all the time. You drink, curse it out, and drive on. No crying allowed.

Pshhh, last time I checked Dragon Age was a fantasy game and not a combat simulator.  If someone wants to be an all business all the time kind of character there is nothing stopping them from roleplaying that way.

Anyways, maybe I shouldn't be responding to such a clearly inflammatory post, but umm--maybe you're serious?
In which case it's not just females that 'mix love into war' as you put it.  The majority of this forum is male and they seem just as into the romance aspect of these games.  It's a part of the human experience.

[Anarya]

JHByrne wrote...

Why is it that you females, above, feel the need to mix 'love' into war? There's just no place for it. As a warden, you're gonna die, but not before you slaughter 100s of critters. At least Zevran and Morrigan have things figured out. Oghren's alright too. Sten never bothers with the love interest crap.

Lelian's just a liar and a hypocrite. Alistair... my god...whiny little sob-boy. Ooo, boohoo.... I'm a bastard, raised in a barn, no family.

Uh... so? It's the freakin' Dark Ages, man! Look around, almost EVERYONE lives in a damned barn! Even the 'glorious market place in Denerim, the jewel of Ferelden', is a ragged looking patch of booths on muddy ground.
So... any of you girls ever spend time in a real military/combat situation? The trick is, you're surrounded by ugly sh*t all the time. You drink,curse it out, and drive on. No crying allowed.

I might make an exception for Sable Rapsody there, but the whiny types among you... go read a Cosmopolitan or Seventeen magazine, will ya?

1. I don't see anyone "whining" here
2. Love is a part of life and of many great stories
3. this is a fantasy RPG
4. If I wanted a real military experience I would enlist, not play RPGs in my home

Maybe if you allowed crying in the military less vets would come home and kill themselves or spiral into depression and PTSD. But what do I know? All I know is my Seventeen magazine and PMS amirite?

[condiments1]

I think they should drop all those cheese filled romances altogether. I hate that characters development are so tied to romance, so that if you're the wrong gender you see half the character. Their conversations just 'end'.



Love isn't something that develops in 5 short conversations, and one sexual encounter. My 'ideal' romance, if it had to be in there, would be a relationship that grows naturally over the course of the story between two strong characters with maybe some eventual playful conversations once the relationship has progressed enough. None of this 'I LURV YOU' bullcrap.



Though subtly was never Bioware's strong suit.

[LaurenOD]

Here's the truth: nerdy girls tend to have a thing for middle aged British actor types a la Gary Oldman, Alan Rickman etc.

So I reckon we need a sort of gruff Loghain-esque warrior type. A sort of Mr Rochester. Oh yeah.

[Anarya]

LaurenOD wrote...

Here's the truth: nerdy girls tend to have a thing for middle aged British actor types a la Gary Oldman, Alan Rickman etc.
So I reckon we need a sort of gruff Loghain-esque warrior type. A sort of Mr Rochester. Oh yeah.

Ok yes, I could get into this. Mr. Rochester---yes. I've been feeling the urge to reread that lately. Hrm.

[uuuhcantthinkofaname]

LaurenOD wrote...

Here's the truth: nerdy girls tend to have a thing for middle aged British actor types a la Gary Oldman, Alan Rickman etc.
So I reckon we need a sort of gruff Loghain-esque warrior type. A sort of Mr Rochester. Oh yeah.

Damn straight.

[Relshar]

Leliana type of accent with Morrigans attitude but without the love is a weakness line. For the males.
Sorry Leliana's accent did things for me.

From a female point of view kind of difficult to do but another moaning Alistair would be bad. Someone like Oghrin or Daveth.

Or let you romance your sister.

Modifié par Relshar, 01 août 2010 - 08:31 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

AloraKast wrote...

With Zev, I find I can have the best of both worlds. He can be a resourceful, lethal, take-charge individual and he can also be a sensitive and loyal protector of both your person and your heart.

For me, if you take a Zev model, add more darkness to him, add some more scars (a tattoo or two more would be cool too ), maybe grow him out a bit more and make sure you encase his true essence in walls that are difficult, but not impossible, to break through... Yeah, that would be ideal for me.

EDIT: Ah, stupid forum filters, quit messing with my fave quote, dammit!

I adore Zev.  I think part of it was how Zev's loyalty quest was handled, and part of it was how Zev got over his troubles.  He didn't need a love interest per se.  My favorite mage Warden was a very good friend to Zev without romancing him, and she still helped him develop as a person.  

And as for Carth, everyone is entitled to their own preferences, and I think our real life experiences and tastes do come into play here.  I'm an extremely non-confrontational introvert IRL, and I simply don't have the energy or disposition to deal with more "wounded" relationships like Carth, Anomen, Aribeth, etc.  Which probably explains why I have trouble with them in video games.  It feels like goddamn work, not fun 

condiments1 wrote...

I think they should drop all those cheese filled romances altogether. I hate that characters development are so tied to romance, so that if you're the wrong gender you see half the character. Their conversations just 'end'. 

Love isn't something that develops in 5 short conversations, and one sexual encounter. My 'ideal' romance, if it had to be in there, would be a relationship that grows naturally over the course of the story between two strong characters with maybe some eventual playful conversations once the relationship has progressed enough. None of this 'I LURV YOU' bullcrap. 

Though subtly was never Bioware's strong suit.

You know, I'm inclined to agree with you somewhat.  My Warden's most meaningful relationships in DA:O were not the romances.  They were her friendships, specifically with Morrigan, Sten, and Shale.  I felt like those friendships, especially Sten's, had to be earned.  They grew and evolved slowly over the course of the game, and by the end, I was BFFs with them.  DA:O is somewhat better about incorporating friendship paths and romance paths, but to be brutally honest, I'd rather have well-done, thoughtful, engaging friendship paths with EVERY NPC than romances with 4 accompanied by less developed friendships.

ME2 was much worse about this.  Arguably Garrus and Tali's romances were ok, since you had the friendship development in ME1 to build upon.  DA:O could have been pretty good about this, but the gift system broke the approval system and made it ridiculously easy to max out their approval and get in their pants.  If the NPCs had one particular unique gift per NPC, and that was it, that might be ok.

[Riona45]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
  My favorite mage Warden was a very good friend to Zev without romancing him, and she still helped him develop as a person.  

Indeed, I enjoyed the friend track with Zevran as well.

Modifié par Riona45, 01 août 2010 - 10:25 .