1536 réponses à ce sujet

[Sable Rhapsody]

Dtelm wrote...
I just want a sane, rational romance option lol.

Amen to that.  I mean, obviously, your LIs still have to be interesting.  I found JE's Sky to be exceedingly bland and stock, though he also has the distinction of being the first BioWare LI whose romance I could actually stomach and complete.  But Garrus was nice and sane, for the most part.  Alistair wasn't a wackjob.  I think the girls almost have it better as far as their LIs not being totally off the wall.

[MachineMaiden]

Desken wrote...

The ambiguous side taking is charming... not knowing weather the relation you have is actually positive or negative for the quest.

I'm sorta with you on that aspect. As in when Morrigan says something about you and Alistair and the effect it would have on him and such. To me it would be the same thing. My LI has to make me feel as if I'd go against mostly everything for them. THAT'S the type I want again.

[Saibh]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Dtelm wrote...
I just want a sane, rational romance option lol.

Amen to that.  I mean, obviously, your LIs still have to be interesting.  I found JE's Sky to be exceedingly bland and stock, though he also has the distinction of being the first BioWare LI whose romance I could actually stomach and complete.  But Garrus was nice and sane, for the most part.  Alistair wasn't a wackjob.  I think the girls almost have it better as far as their LIs not being totally off the wall.

Sky...I almost feel bad not liking him, because his character wasn't that bad. It's just...he never did or said anything that special. You're right; he felt "stock". He just pulled out romantic lines to say without any sort of personality. I know I mention Carth Syndome like every other second, but bear with me: in his particular instance, I really hate it. It doesn't seem to contribute to his character. Doesn't contribute to his story any. If the Guild had murdered and enslaved his brother or some family member, that would go just as far to explain his motivations.

In fact, his constant irreverance sometimes jarred me. I mean...your kid was murdered. After being enslaved. I may not like this plot point, but if it exists...well...

Modifié par Saibh, 04 août 2010 - 09:28 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Saibh wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Dtelm wrote...
I just want a sane, rational romance option lol.

Amen to that.  I mean, obviously, your LIs still have to be interesting.  I found JE's Sky to be exceedingly bland and stock, though he also has the distinction of being the first BioWare LI whose romance I could actually stomach and complete.  But Garrus was nice and sane, for the most part.  Alistair wasn't a wackjob.  I think the girls almost have it better as far as their LIs not being totally off the wall.

Sky...I almost feel bad not liking him, because his character wasn't that bad. It's just...he never did or said anything that special. You're right; he felt "stock". He just pulled out romantic lines to say without any sort of personality. I know I mention Carth Syndome like every other second, but bear with me: in his particular instance, I really hate it. It doesn't seem to contribute to his character. Doesn't contribute to his story any. If the Guild had murdered and enslaved his brother or some family member, that would go just as far to explain his motivations.

In fact, his constant irreverance sometimes jarred me. I mean...your kid was murdered. After being enslaved. I may not like this plot point, but if it exists...well...

If it exists, you might as well use it for something?  I agree--it felt like they just tossed the Carth Syndrome in there for kicks and giggles.  It WAS jarring.  Kind of like how Jacob's sidequest in ME2 was jarring.  Jacob was all nice and bland with no particular personality other than cheesy, then all of a sudden the WANGST TRAIN OF CREEPERDAD hit, and I was like, "Wait...where the f--- did that come from?  And why is it never mentioned EVER AGAIN?"  It just really didn't fit.  It was like some dev realized Jacob had no personality other than PRIIZE, and decided to toss in an insane father for the hell of it.

Modifié par Sable Rhapsody, 04 août 2010 - 09:39 .

[Saibh]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

If it exists, you might as well use it for something?  I agree--it felt like they just tossed the Carth Syndrome in there for kicks and giggles.  It WAS jarring.  Kind of like how Jacob's sidequest in ME2 was jarring.  Jacob was all nice and bland with no particular personality other than cheesy, then all of a sudden the WANGST TRAIN OF CREEPERDAD hit, and I was like, "Wait...where the f--- did that come from?  And why is it never mentioned EVER AGAIN?"  It just really didn't fit.  It was like some dev realized Jacob had no personality other than PRIIZE, and decided to toss in an insane father for the hell of it.

Poor Jacob. All he'll ever be remembered for is the PRIIIZE.

I completely agree with that--his loyalty mission was...like a Big Lipped Alligator Mission. I understand BioWare wanted to make a well-adjusted guy, and that was his point, but then being completely unwilling to talk about the fact your father spent the last ten years turning people into mindless sex slaves is...I mean, that has to have an effect. At least he was the only guy that ever asked how you were doing.

Well, I still like Sky's kiss animation. Though he always looked like his face got mashed in by the ugly pan.

Modifié par Saibh, 04 août 2010 - 09:57 .

[Anarya]

Saibh wrote...

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

If it exists, you might as well use it for something?  I agree--it felt like they just tossed the Carth Syndrome in there for kicks and giggles.  It WAS jarring.  Kind of like how Jacob's sidequest in ME2 was jarring.  Jacob was all nice and bland with no particular personality other than cheesy, then all of a sudden the WANGST TRAIN OF CREEPERDAD hit, and I was like, "Wait...where the f--- did that come from?  And why is it never mentioned EVER AGAIN?"  It just really didn't fit.  It was like some dev realized Jacob had no personality other than PRIIZE, and decided to toss in an insane father for the hell of it.

Poor Jacob. All he'll ever be remembered for is the PRIIIZE.

I completely agree with that--his loyalty mission was...like a Big Lipped Alligator Mission. I understand BioWare wanted to make a well-adjusted guy, and that was his point, but then being completely unwilling to talk about the fact your father spent the last ten years turning people into mindless sex slaves is...I mean, that has to have an affect. At least he was the only guy that ever asked how you were doing.

Well, I still like Sky's kiss animation. Though he always looked like his face got mashed in by the ugly pan.

Yes ironically his complete lack of acknowledgement of the whole creepy dictator dad thing makes him seem to have issues when he's not really supposed to. That's at least as unhealthy as being obsessed with it.

I actually think Alistair was pretty normal in his handling of grief, but I know lots of people would disagree. His major dysfunction was his sense of self-worth if anything.

And Garrus...I love him but I wish his romance was more romantic. Garrus is awesome but I think he works better as a friend for that reason.

I giggle everytime someone invokes the PRIIIIZE.

[Malanek]

Anarya wrote...
Yes ironically his complete lack of acknowledgement of the whole creepy dictator dad thing makes him seem to have issues when he's not really supposed to. That's at least as unhealthy as being obsessed with it.

Bottling it up inside and not wanting to talk about it is a typical guy thing. Convince yourself it's not an issue, and it's not an issue.

Anarya wrote...
I actually think Alistair was pretty normal in his handling of grief, but I know lots of people would disagree. His major dysfunction was his sense of self-worth if anything.

I don't think Alistair went over the top, but Morrigan implies he did off camera. I honestly think Jacobs attitude and refusal to speak about his family issues is much more typical for a guy.

[Dtelm]

Yeah I have to agree. ****s in the past. If dwelling on it wont help, best to leave it there.



Actually, I had to do a few internet searches and watch a couple youtube videos to find out what the prize was. Lol. Saw the cutsecne. Then I found this video.







Lmfao.

[Anarya]

Malanek999 wrote...

Anarya wrote...
Yes ironically his complete lack of acknowledgement of the whole creepy dictator dad thing makes him seem to have issues when he's not really supposed to. That's at least as unhealthy as being obsessed with it.

Bottling it up inside and not wanting to talk about it is a typical guy thing. Convince yourself it's not an issue, and it's not an issue.

Anarya wrote...
I actually think Alistair was pretty normal in his handling of grief, but I know lots of people would disagree. His major dysfunction was his sense of self-worth if anything.

I don't think Alistair went over the top, but Morrigan implies he did off camera. I honestly think Jacobs attitude and refusal to speak about his family issues is much more typical for a guy.

True about Morrigan, but considering Morrigan is emotionally stunted and she witnessed him literally the next day after it happened I think she's wrong.

Sure that's a common "guy thing" to do but I think it's an unsuccessful coping strategy for most people. Some people can just get over it, sure, but for most others it just gets misdirected into anger or depression or surliness or whatever and then gets unleashed on the people around you. Probably without the person noticing, so he *thinks* he's handled it just fine.

[mopotter]

Carmen_Willow wrote...

mopotter wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...
Well maybe it's just me then, i haven't gotten super far into the game but from what i've seen, even if he is rude i always think about his words and most of the time think..."hm, he's right." yeah, he is kinda perma pmsing but really, i like that he would rather have people hate him for who/what he is than kiss people's asses and have people love him for who he is not. i do think a lot of it is for show too and he bses just to show how much of a tough guy he is.

All right, I'm not going to spoil the game for you.  However, I do think you (and some other people) have a very, very generous opinion about the type of person Bishop is.  I am thinking of the Draco in Leather Pants trope from the TV Tropes website.  I'll just say I don't think it's an accident that he was given the Chaotic Evil alignment, and that there are character types that don't fall into the categories of either "asskisser" or "evil sociopath."

You are of course entitled to your opinion, it's just that the love people have for Bishop (as a possible love interest, mind you, not just as a character) is a bit of a head-scratcher for me, personally.  It's like the idea of a Cullen romance for some other people here (I'm hardly pro-Cullen, but at least he started off nice).

Well it's kind of like how some people can't really stand the "paladin" types and think carth/kaiden/alistair are just rehashes of each other, though I personally think they have pretty different personalities. or how people are very por loghain or pro alistair.

when i think of evil sociopath i think of kefka from FF6. THAT was an awesome villian. I don't see any rhyme, reason, or redemption in him. i haven't gotten to the end of the game yet but i will reserve my judgements for bishop until then. in the mean time i do have a healthy respect for him.

How about someone like Dexter?  Not sure if anyone watches it, I watched it once and couldn't watch it again, it's just to disturbing to me.  He seems to be a total sociopath without any feeling of right or wrong, but only goes after people who have committed really bad crimes.  I think that's how it goes.  He mimics the emotions of other people and is very good at it.  The one show I watched, he had a girlfriend and co-workers who thought he was just like them.  Not sure how that would work in a video game.

Hollywood sociopaths can seem sexy and fun.  IRL, sociopaths are a disaster to date.  You are lucky to walk away from the relationship losing no more than your money and some months of your life.  Real sociopaths destroy your sense of trust in other human beings,  They don't feel anything.  They can't feel anything.  Their brains are actually different from yours and they understand emotions the same way someone who is color blind understands color.....intellectually but not experientially.  They cannot be fixed.  The intelligent ones usually make it to the top of some corporate heap and ruin the lives of their underlings and families.  You'd be amazed at how many "loved ones" in a sociopath's life turn to drugs or suicide.....the dumb ones just commit crime after crime and end up in jail.  NO DEXTERS....no, no no.  Let's not romanticize dangerous people, please.

Any relationship that isn't based on personal respect will likely be a endless spiral into a relationship nightmare.  Would not be surprised,  In the world of the web, you never know what someone else had experienced or have had friends or family experience.  I've been lucky, the only problems I have had are the normal ones - guys who forget to mention they are still married and say "if you knew me before you would have known I was married".  dhh, But live and learn ask before you go to dinner with them.     Does make you appreciate the good ones.  

Since I don't ever play the dark side, though I will play gray, whatever kind of bad guy they get for the evil love interest will probably be killed off in my game, unless he's like Zev who was redeemable.     

As far as romanticizing dangerous, amoral, obnoxious  people, it's way too late for that.    Just look at the number of women who want to marry someone in jail for murder.  

I don't have a problem with video games.  Everything I do in a video game is something I wouldn't do in the real world.  As long as I can kill of or send away any of the LI I don't want to interact with I'm fine with it.

[Sable Rhapsody]

mopotter wrote...

I don't have a problem with video games.  Everything I do in a video game is something I wouldn't do in the real world.  As long as I can kill of or send away any of the LI I don't want to interact with I'm fine with it.

And this is why I'm perfectly happy to muck about with extremely dangerous/problematic characters in video games.  Come to think of it, of all the fictional guys I've fangirled over, modded or otherwise, there are very very few I would even consider giving the time of day in real life.  I'd probably be friends with Garrus.  And I might romance Alistair; his doofy sense of humor is identical to my boyfriend's, which gave him an unfair advantage.  But IRL, I would not touch Zev, Bishop, Atton, Ozai, or even my favorite modded romance of Kivan with a ten foot pole.  

[burrito]

I need a dude that will fist bump with me. Alistair you could bromance with. I tried with Zevran it got awkard.

[mllrthyme]

Ah Garrus. He was probably my favorite character in ME1 and I really wanted him as a romance option. When he shows up in ME2, sure he's got some great lines, but his romance is like an after-thought, and if you don't romance him, he doesn't have much to say. Stupid calibrations!

On a side note, I think "mucking about" with shady/dangerous characters and making choices that you normally wouldn't IRL is what video games are all about. I mean, if I was being chased by some diseased mutant weirdo with a really big sword and no lips, I wouldn't try to hack them down with a sword that's almost as big as I am. I'd be running the opposite direction while trying to find a clean pair of pants!

[Riona45]

mopotter wrote...

Snookers wrote...

I might be alone on this one...but how about a sexy brooding chocolate man who has...yes trust issues! I'm kinda sick of the whole look they usually go for...You know what I mean.

I don't think your alone.  The LI skin isn't going to matter to me, as long as the personality is there.  I haven't done the Jacob romance because of Shepard's stalker like tone when she talks to him.  I like Jacob as a character.

Seconded--I liked having Jacob for a friend (didn't do any love interests in ME2 because I wanted to stick with Kaidan).  The trust issues part...eh...it's a matter of taste, and I might not mind depending on the character, but it is often regarded as a bit played out by now.

PS:  It's not the most memorable romance, but Aarin Gend in the Neverwinter Nights official campaign was a black LI.

[Riona45]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...
But just to prove that any trope can be redeemed, here's my 2 cents.  I can't stand paladin types on even my good days.  I usually end up either killing off those NPCs, never picking them up, or just dumping them somewhere nice and hidden.  But I adored ME2's Samara, because she managed to be Lawful Good without being Lawful Stupid.  She knew what her code required of her and followed it unwaveringly, but she was flexible enough to seek solutions that would satisfy the code and spare innocents.  I thought she was awesome.

She had a certain charisma and a great voice.  And I thought her black and gold outfit was one of the best outfits in the game, period.

[Sable Rhapsody]

mllrthyme wrote...
On a side note, I think "mucking about" with shady/dangerous characters and making choices that you normally wouldn't IRL is what video games are all about. I mean, if I was being chased by some diseased mutant weirdo with a really big sword and no lips, I wouldn't try to hack them down with a sword that's almost as big as I am. I'd be running the opposite direction while trying to find a clean pair of pants!

Haha!  Yeah, that's what I'd be doing.  Or calling the guards/police/proper authorities, who never seem to do anything but airquote, get poisoned, or generally ****** off in video games while crises are striking.

[mllrthyme]

Riona45 wrote...

PS:  It's not the most memorable romance, but Aarin Gend in the Neverwinter Nights official campaign was a black LI.

I absolutely adored Aarin Gend's romance.  It had a touch of the therapy-mance to it, what with the dead girlfriend, but the interaction was nice.  I loved his voice and accent, and the whole "I used to be a pirate/spy" thing was rather sexy too.

[Riona45]

Dtelm wrote...

Lol....

For me, I'm a little sick of extremes.

...

I just want a sane, rational romance option lol. No demon children or joan-of-arc esque visions from god.
Just, A toss in the hay with keeper lanaya or an equivantly normal woman.

Point taken.  I did very much like Lanaya as a character by the way.

[Riona45]

mllrthyme wrote...


I absolutely adored Aarin Gend's romance.  It had a touch of the therapy-mance to it, what with the dead girlfriend, but the interaction was nice.  I loved his voice and accent, and the whole "I used to be a pirate/spy" thing was rather sexy too.

Indeed, the concept of the character was very nice.  The poor guy was overshadowed in general by Aribeth, although I'll mention that I didn't think her romance was "out of the ballpark" either.

[Riona45]

Saibh wrote...


Poor Jacob. All he'll ever be remembered for is the PRIIIZE.

Indeed, poor guy!  I'm laughing out loud here, actually.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Riona45 wrote...

mllrthyme wrote...


I absolutely adored Aarin Gend's romance.  It had a touch of the therapy-mance to it, what with the dead girlfriend, but the interaction was nice.  I loved his voice and accent, and the whole "I used to be a pirate/spy" thing was rather sexy too.

Indeed, the concept of the character was very nice.  The poor guy was overshadowed in general by Aribeth, although I'll mention that I didn't think her romance was "out of the ballpark" either.

I thought Aribeth was CREEPY AS F---.  Maybe because I'd already played HoTU by the time I backtracked to the OC and I knew what was to become of her, but her hitting on my male Hero of Neverwinter right after her boyfriend's just been horribly scapegoated was disturbing.  Highly disturbing.  Like, High Octane Nightmare Fuel version of the Carth Syndrome.  Though I had to laugh at my poor character's discomfiture as he tried to get away from Aribeth and her grabby fingers.

I ended up killing her in the end.  It seemed more merciful than sending her back to Neverwinter for a show trial and execution.

[Riona45]

Anarya wrote...
True about Morrigan, but considering Morrigan is emotionally stunted and she witnessed him literally the next day after it happened I think she's wrong.

Yeah, I interpreted Morrigan's "he's acting very childish" comment as callousness on her part.  It's really supposed to say more about her than Alistair.

I'll agree that Alistair act came off as pretty "normal" to me, and definitely not perfect (ie. Gary Stu-ish).

[Sable Rhapsody]

Riona45 wrote...

Anarya wrote...
True about Morrigan, but considering Morrigan is emotionally stunted and she witnessed him literally the next day after it happened I think she's wrong.

Yeah, I interpreted Morrigan's "he's acting very childish" comment as callousness on her part.  It's really supposed to say more about her than Alistair.

I'll agree that Alistair act came off as pretty "normal" to me, and definitely not perfect (ie. Gary Stu-ish).

See, that's the thing.  Plenty of devs and fans seem to think that in order to have interesting NPCs, they have to have bucketloads of wangst.  JRPGs are a prime offender.  But wangst is not the same as character development.  You can have relatively normal NPCs who are nonetheless complex, interesting, and emotionally compelling.  Obviously, this is harder to pull off in video games while you're shooting monsters and lighting stuff on fire with your brain and surrounded by aliens, elves, and Maker knows what, but it's doable.  Alistair pulled it off spectacularly, as did Nathaniel.  Kaidan and Jacob had more mixed success trying for Badass Normal.  They got Normal; I think they just missed the Badass 

I love Badass Normal as a trope, and I'm sad that it's not implemented as much in video games.  But Daveth and Nate?  Badass Normal.  Dagna?  Badass Normal.  And I loved them all to itty bitty bits.

[Riona45]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...


I thought Aribeth was CREEPY AS F---. 

That one sentence made my day.

[Riona45]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

I love Badass Normal as a trope, and I'm sad that it's not implemented as much in video games.  But Daveth and Nate?  Badass Normal.  Dagna?  Badass Normal.  And I loved them all to itty bitty bits.

Ah yes, Nate--good news, it's been heavily implied in a recent dev post that we will see him again.  Apparently it was no coincidence that Nathaniel spent time in Kirkwall.

Modifié par Riona45, 05 août 2010 - 12:19 .