217 réponses à ce sujet

[gingerbill]

The OP's talking alot of nonsense in my opinion , you cant take one tiny tiny tiny bit of conversation and form an opinion .

[BlackyBlack]

gingerbill wrote...

The OP's talking alot of nonsense in my opinion , you cant take one tiny tiny tiny bit of conversation and form an opinion .

No, but I can from playing ME1 and ME2

[ViSeiRa]

@BlackyBlack: maybe you should add a poll, see how many fans actually agree with the idea.... that'd give the developers something concrete to look at than a topic with a lot of "I support" replies.

[BlackyBlack]

Poll added

http://social.biowar...060/polls/8567/

[ViSeiRa]

That's very good, I hope this idea gets serious consideration, seeing as how the game is still early in development stages.... as a matter of fact even if the game was near final this would not be hard to implement.

[Woodstock-TC]

i like the ideas behind the new dialog system. its exactly the system we need to get the job done

your poll is a joke (or a trollish poll) if you like, as i have no option to state that i actually think the ME1 and ME2 dialogue systems are well done. you preasume for everyone they would either be 100% your opinion or not be interested at all.
thats bullcrap sorry.

Modifié par Woodstock-TC, 27 juillet 2010 - 02:00 .

[Saibh]

It's all well and good to say "Oh, they should this or it'll suck!" or "If they're going to do that, why not this?" but I think it's a serious waste of time, space, and effort to have option available. If the players want it (and if we get a toolset), mod it in. But don't ask them to do it when you don't even know how successful the shortline and icon are going to be.

[BlackyBlack]

Woodstock-TC wrote...

i like the ideas behind the new dialog system. its exactly the system we need to get the job done

your poll is a joke (or a trollish poll) if you like, as i have no option to state that i actually think the ME1 and ME2 dialogue systems are well done. you preasume for everyone they would either be 100% your opinion or not be interested at all.
thats bullcrap sorry.

How is stating your opinion trollish?

I didn't PRESUME anything. Everywhere it says I thought this and that and it's my opinion only

Please read the other posts to see that a lot of people agree with me

Modifié par BlackyBlack, 27 juillet 2010 - 02:23 .

[ViSeiRa]

Saibh wrote...

It's all well and good to say "Oh, they should this or it'll suck!" or "If they're going to do that, why not this?" but I think it's a serious waste of time, space, and effort to have option available. If the players want it (and if we get a toolset), mod it in. But don't ask them to do it when you don't even know how successful the shortline and icon are going to be.

We already know how successful they're gonna be, the ME dialogue wheel is a joke, I admit adding the icon will improve things considerably but it still doesn't allow me to know what the character is going to say, and as I said before tones and moralities are a matter of perspective, just because the writer puts a paragon icon next to a line doesn't mean me or anyone else would think the line is actually paragon, it's like different people laughing at different kinds of jokes..... the OP's idea is clean and simple, the best of both worlds, players who want to use the wheel without actually knowing what the protagonist will say can use and it's the main system, other players can use the subsystem which allows you to read the full line.

And a toolset for DA2 would be a good thing, but it'll just complicate things further for the developers, as your protagonist will be forced to be silent in the elements you create while he actually has a voice in the game.

[BlackyBlack]

Saibh wrote...

It's all well and good to say "Oh, they should this or it'll suck!" or "If they're going to do that, why not this?" but I think it's a serious waste of time, space, and effort to have option available. If the players want it (and if we get a toolset), mod it in. But don't ask them to do it when you don't even know how successful the shortline and icon are going to be.

The thing is, we don't even know how moddable DA2 will be. There might never be a toolset for DA2

[ViSeiRa]

BlackyBlack wrote...

Saibh wrote...

It's all well and good to say "Oh, they should this or it'll suck!" or "If they're going to do that, why not this?" but I think it's a serious waste of time, space, and effort to have option available. If the players want it (and if we get a toolset), mod it in. But don't ask them to do it when you don't even know how successful the shortline and icon are going to be.

The thing is, we don't even know how moddable DA2 will be. There might never be a toolset for DA2

Even if there's, which I highly doubt, we're still confined by the tools they provide us with, the DA:O toolset was comprehensive and allowed very varying kinds of creation and customization, I suspect they can't provide the same experience in DA2, and if they did it'd be limited.

[Saibh]

ViSeirA wrote...

We already know how successful they're gonna be, the ME dialogue wheel is a joke, I admit adding the icon will improve things considerably but it still doesn't allow me to know what the character is going to say, and as I said before tones and moralities are a matter of perspective, just because the writer puts a paragon icon next to a line doesn't mean me or anyone else would think the line is actually paragon, it's like different people laughing at different kinds of jokes.....

First of all, I'm pretty sure they said that the icon indicates tone, not intent, not morality, nothing but what you're trying to convey when speaking that line. I think they went out of their way to say that there will be no "good" or "evil" sign that tells you what sort of moral choice you are making.

Again, we haven't seen the dialogue tree, or heard about it, being used in any big way. We'll have to wait on how it is to hear what the game is really going to be like.

the OP's idea is clean and simple, the best of both worlds, players who want to use the wheel without actually knowing what the protagonist will say can use and it's the main system, other players can use the subsystem which allows you to read the full line.

I don't know that much about programming...and I'm not sure how much you know. But, like I said, it's really easy for us to go "Oh that's so simple, we should have that, why aren't you giving this to us?". We don't know what their time constraints are, how much money they put into a certain portion, or really anything about the development of this game. Personally, I think that we don't know much about the tree and it's a bit much to ask them to make this option available when we don't even know if we'll like it or not.

And a toolset for DA2 would be a good thing, but it'll just complicate things further for the developers, as your protagonist will be forced to be silent in the elements you create while he actually has a voice in the game.

I don't see how that complicates things for the devs. I see how that presents a nick in a modder's plan, but not with the devs. And I'll point out that the most popular mods for DAO right now aren't levels or dungeons, but modifications to hair, tones, body build, armor and so on.

Again, not a programmer, so maybe it would be hard. But I wouldn't write it off.

[Ahzrei]

This is the same writing team that worked on DAO, actually.

This is why I still have faith in DA2.

[angj57]

I'm not a fan of this idea. I enjoy hearing Shepard speak his lines, but I wouldn't if I already knew exactly what he was going to say. And I can't remember any point in the game where I thought what Shepard was saying was truly different from what I told him to say via the wheel.

[BlackyBlack]

angj57 wrote...

I'm not a fan of this idea. I enjoy hearing Shepard speak his lines, but I wouldn't if I already knew exactly what he was going to say. And I can't remember any point in the game where I thought what Shepard was saying was truly different from what I told him to say via the wheel.

Let me guess, you choose the paragon choice mostly. You have no idea how many funny conversations you've missed by playing that way

See, the problem is, I don't want to be 100% good or 100% evil. I want the protagonist to say smartass stuff whenever possible and threaten criminals saying badass things, while still being nice and kind to other people, but doesn't act like a wuss that's sorry for everything. I want to completely ROLE PLAY my character

Modifié par BlackyBlack, 28 juillet 2010 - 12:04 .

[ViSeiRa]

Saibh wrote...

First of all, I'm pretty sure they said that the icon indicates tone, not intent, not morality, nothing but what you're trying to convey when speaking that line. I think they went out of their way to say that there will be no "good" or "evil" sign that tells you what sort of moral choice you are making.

Again, we haven't seen the dialogue tree, or heard about it, being used in any big way. We'll have to wait on how it is to hear what the game is really going to be like.

It still holds the same argument, I might say something, you may think is funny, other may think it rude...... we actually know all there's to know about DA2's dialogue wheel by now.

Saibh wrote...

I don't know that much about programming...and I'm not sure how much you know. But, like I said, it's really easy for us to go "Oh that's so simple, we should have that, why aren't you giving this to us?". We don't know what their time constraints are, how much money they put into a certain portion, or really anything about the development of this game. Personally, I think that we don't know much about the tree and it's a bit much to ask them to make this option available when we don't even know if we'll like it or not.

I know a lot about programming, I actually code in C++, C#, Java and Ada, and that's not even the point, it's an interface object, they already have the implementation which is subtitles, they just need to alter it to be able to show prior to speaking the line, no just while spoken, how many people needed to make this work? I would be so bold as to say just one programmer working from now would finish it months before the actual release date.

Saibh wrote...

I don't see how that complicates things for the devs. I see how that presents a nick in a modder's plan, but not with the devs. And I'll point out that the most popular mods for DAO right now aren't levels or dungeons, but modifications to hair, tones, body build, armor and so on.

Again, not a programmer, so maybe it would be hard. But I wouldn't write it off.

It complicates things for them because they wanted to present a cinematic experience, I fully support a voiced protagonist, but providing a toolset would break the game's consistency, I'd think that if they provide one, creating levels or dungeons would not be possible, they'll stick with the normal mods of hair, tones.... as you said earlier.

[ViSeiRa]

Also, for people who say this completely bypasses the VO, games like "The Witcher" have the same thing and it's one of the best RPGs ever.

[Saibh]

ViSeirA wrote...


It still holds the same argument, I might say something, you may think is funny, other may think it rude...... we actually know all there's to know about DA2's dialogue wheel by now.

Yes, but with the icon you know what your intent is. As a person, I'm in control of my voice, my facial expression, my body cues. If someone misinterprets what I said, I can explain they got it wrong. In a game, if I have an idea of what I mean and they get it wrong, I'm stuck with the consequences. If they misinterpret the icon, that's the character's fault--it's not like they're real people with real reactions. The writers say "This line is snarky" and the characters react accordingly.

I don't think it particularly matters what we think is funny or rude--it only matters how the characters respond.

I know a lot about programming, I actually code in C++, C#, Java and Ada, and that's not even the point, it's an interface object, they already have the implementation which is subtitles, they just need to alter it to be able to show prior to speaking the line, no just while spoken, how many people needed to make this work? I would be so bold as to say just one programmer working from now would finish it months before the actual release date.

I think I forgot to mention that I'm not against the idea, not at all. I mean, I think its a sort of selfish thing to ask, but if its not going to hurt game production, then I don't particularly care.

[BlackyBlack]

ViSeirA wrote...

Also, for people who say this completely bypasses the VO, games like "The Witcher" have the same thing and it's one of the best RPGs ever.

Agreed, The Witcher did it great

[AClockworkMelon]

angj57 wrote...

I'm not a fan of this idea. I enjoy hearing Shepard speak his lines, but I wouldn't if I already knew exactly what he was going to say. And I can't remember any point in the game where I thought what Shepard was saying was truly different from what I told him to say via the wheel.

My thoughts exactly. My character was mostly renegade with occasional paragon moments. 

[Havokk7]

I want the dialogue choices to be intent-based, not exact-word-based.

When the character is talking, I'd like to be able to choose "Respectfull", "Curt", "Rude", "Smartalec" and so on. The computer is never going to be able to give me exactly the words I want to say, so it should stop trying.



I liked the dialogue system in Alpha Protocol. You choose a stance: Suave, Professional or Aggressive (usually described by referring to the "three B's" Bond, Bauer and Bourne).



I didn't, however, like the dialogue system in Mass Effect. To be specific, I didn't like how the "Renegade" options weren't about being "ends justify the means ruthless" but were usually about "being rude and insulting". Renegade Shepherd should have been ruthless like Dirty Harry, not petty and insulting.



For example, one of the Renegade choices about Joker turned out to be something like "tell the cripple to get a move on". That's not a Paragon or a Renegade response, its an insulting, disrespectful response that jarred me because it is completely out of line for a military commander to say about one of their subordinates.





B

[DarthCaine]

Even though I'd love this, it's not gonna happen since BioWare rarely (if ever) listens to stuff we request on these forums

[Darth_Ravor]

read this, and pay attention bout what they say about dialogue: http://comic-con.gam...eatures;title;2