217 réponses à ce sujet

[Blessed Silence]

What ... no one else was awed when Shepard punched someone in the face? I thought it was pretty easy to tell after a while in the game what the responses were.



Though I do think the suggestion of having some way to see the sentence for those worried of what will be said ... but I'm usually a one road person when it comes to these games, never neutral.



I think the icon though would be easy to tell what Hawke is intending to say. Something to be nice, something indifferent, or something to really p*** the person off.

[ViSeiRa]

Alistair4Ever wrote...

read this, and pay attention bout what they say about dialogue: http://comic-con.gam...eatures;title;2

Your point being? it's exactly the same as other previews/ hands-on, aside from the part that says dialogue is more action oriented I do not see much difference...... the problem is that most of you don't understand that this suggestion if implemented is optional, and it's as easy to implement as tooltips, it's not a matter of how hard it is, or how useful it is, it's not even about having two dialogue systems in one game, it's whether Bioware actually has the knack to listen to the major portion of its fans or not, especially this early into development.

[JoltDealer]

 I fully support this idea to fix the dialogue system.  I believe this will allow Bioware to keep their streamlined dialogue system while allowing players to still enjoy dialogue similar to Dragon Age: Origins should they choose to.  This is brilliant and simple solution to the problem that a lot of the community has with the Mass Effect-styled  dialogue system.

Bioware, I highly suggest that you make use of this idea.  A good portion of the community does not like the changes that have been made to Dragon Age 2.  Why not do the smart thing and meet the community half-way?

[DarthCaine]

Crimson Sound wrote...

Bioware, I highly suggest that you make use of this idea.  A good portion of the community does not like the changes that have been made to Dragon Age 2.  Why not do the smart thing and meet the community half-way?

This

[Thandal N'Lyman]

reddragon567 wrote...
I hate how predictable it is. Top - Good, Middle - Neutral, Bottom - ****.

That's actually very deliberate.  It makes it much  easier to select the TYPE of response you'll generate with a high degree of confidence in the impact the devs intended the response to have on game play/game relationships. 
It's so that you DON'T have to read the sentences in advance. They claim that it helps keep immersion by not forcing you to switch from "playing the character" to "reading what the character says", and back again, every time there's dialogue.

The "phrases" (sentence fragments, really) around the wheel are only to give an idea  of what the PC will say, not the text itself. And there's no reason to think that there will always (or only) be three options.  Lots of room around a circle.  Just happened to be three in the particular screenshot they showed.  

'Course making this work (and liking it!) presumes that you'll get so familiar with the interface that you can find the tone you want for a particular encounter without fumbling around and messing things up more often than not.

Personally, I'd want the full text to "fly out" from the response wheel if I hovered the cursor long enough.  Most of the time I think I would be able to confidently select an option based on relative position, but if I'm hestitant/uncertain, I'd like more control.

Modifié par Thandal NLyman, 30 juillet 2010 - 05:42 .

[Nighteye2]

DarthCaine wrote...

Crimson Sound wrote...

Bioware, I highly suggest that you make use of this idea.  A good portion of the community does not like the changes that have been made to Dragon Age 2.  Why not do the smart thing and meet the community half-way?

This

I would like to see that question answered, as well.

There's another argument that hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread: it is enjoyable to read through all possible responses, including those you never intend to select. That joy is being taken away from the player by paraphrasing the responses...

[Felfenix]

"It's SO predictable that I want everything layed out obviously for me, so it will be less predictable, because the predictability of the wheel is always surprising me, because I have no critical thinking ability whatsoever."

[ViSeiRa]

Felfenix wrote...

"It's SO predictable that I want everything layed out obviously for me, so it will be less predictable, because the predictability of the wheel is always surprising me, because I have no critical thinking ability whatsoever."

Well, pardon us Mr.Smart because we have less than average IQ, either you add something useful and insightful to the matter at hand or you don't.

[ViSeiRa]

Nighteye2 wrote...

DarthCaine wrote...

Crimson Sound wrote...

Bioware, I highly suggest that you make use of this idea.  A good portion of the community does not like the changes that have been made to Dragon Age 2.  Why not do the smart thing and meet the community half-way?

This

I would like to see that question answered, as well.

There's another argument that hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread: it is enjoyable to read through all possible responses, including those you never intend to select. That joy is being taken away from the player by paraphrasing the responses...

This something I never thought of, there are always certain situation when I'd never go with a say evil choice, like slaying Connor with the demon in DA:O, but I was still able to know what exact options are there just by looking at the dialogue, paraphrasing just doesn't cut it.

[rob123971]

How do people have difficulty with the ME dialogue? All the options are in the same places.....
Good=top
Whatever the middle is
Bad= bottom

Modifié par rob123971, 30 juillet 2010 - 09:15 .

[BlackyBlack]

rob123971 wrote...

How do people have difficulty with the ME dialogue? All the options are in the same places.....
Good=top
Whatever the middle is
Bad= bottom

BlackyBlack wrote...

The problem is, I don't want to be 100% good or 100% evil. Making him all goody too shoes makes him look like a wuss and you miss out on rather funny dialogue, but making him all badass will sometimes be too mean and I usually don't know whether, for example, Shepard will act racist and mean or make a sarcastic badass threatening joke. I want the protagonist to say smartass stuff whenever possible and threaten criminals saying badass things, while still being nice and kind to other people, but doesn't act like a wuss that's sorry for everything. People that play 100% paragon are missing out on a LOT (and that's a lot of people)

BlackyBlack wrote...

Scipio203 wrote...

That's why there's a middle option.

That's the worst one. In ME it usually skips a few lines from NPCs and while it doesn't make you sound like a wuss, it makes you sound emotionless and you still miss out on a lot of funny dialouge from the lowest dialogue option

Modifié par BlackyBlack, 30 juillet 2010 - 09:24 .

[FarGears]

i wish they wouldn't do this road for DA because when I do these word choices then you don't know what your going to say you know you might say it mean or nice or some other way but it doesn't feel the same. Also in mass effect I used the dialog wheel it doesn't say what you click it says the wrong why of what you thought he was going to say. It not a HUGE problem but i like to see what I'm going to say in stead of bring surprised.

[Nighteye2]

FarGears wrote...
It not a HUGE problem but i like to see what I'm going to say in stead of bring surprised.

As would almost everyone, I suspect...

[AngryFrozenWater]

I think the OP's idea is great. It is easy to implement, because the text is already available as a subtitle.



However... I can do without the dialogue wheel. I am not interested in a voice acted main character at all. It is a waste of resources. The voice files eat too much disc space. And what is worse is that DLCs have to be voice acted as well: This will lead without doubt to DLCs which will avoid voice acting. And this we will get us more DLCs that are either hack and slash or are not focused on the main character. We already know from ME1/ME2 that voice acting is expensive and that it is hard to get the voice actors on a schedule that matches the production schedule. So this fear is not unrealistic.

[Blessed Silence]

rob123971 wrote...

How do people have difficulty with the ME dialogue? All the options are in the same places.....
Good=top
Whatever the middle is
Bad= bottom

I think it is less the problem of knowing what exactly is said then how it is said.

Like ... if the words on the screen are "I can do that", "Possibly" and ... "Not on your life" might not be what exactly is said by Hawke.  If "Possibly" is chosen thinking it is a neutral response, and Hawke says "I could possibly do that, but I don't feel like it" and messes up a quest ... that is more what some posters are asking.

Hope that made sense.

[ViSeiRa]

rob123971 wrote...

How do people have difficulty with the ME dialogue? All the options are in the same places.....
Good=top
Whatever the middle is
Bad= bottom

We know that, we're mainly stating that some options are entirely different from the paraphrase, which the icon in DA2 is gonna solve, to an extent but not entirely, that's why we would like a tooltip like system to be implemented with the dialogue.

[DarthCaine]

I think it's good we're keeping this thread bumped, maybe devs will be kind enough to add the OP's idea (though it's doubtful)

[GodWood]

rob123971 wrote...
How do people have difficulty with the ME dialogue? All the options are in the same places.....
Good=top
Whatever the middle is
Bad= bottom

The problem is the options are never fully clear, when I first played Mass Effect and talked to that reporter I had no idea that by saying "this conversation is over" I'd punch out an unarmed woman, and one of my female friends had no idea by saying "gee thanks" to the consort's ****ty gift of words her PC would be raped.

[Pedrak]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I think the OP's idea is great. It is easy to implement, because the text is already available as a subtitle.

However... I can do without the dialogue wheel. I am not interested in a voice acted main character at all. It is a waste of resources. The voice files eat too much disc space. And what is worse is that DLCs have to be voice acted as well: This will lead without doubt to DLCs which will avoid voice acting. And this we will get us more DLCs that are either hack and slash or are not focused on the main character. We already know from ME1/ME2 that voice acting is expensive and that it is hard to get the voice actors on a schedule that matches the production schedule. So this fear is not unrealistic.

Well said.

[Nighteye2]

GodWood wrote...

rob123971 wrote...
How do people have difficulty with the ME dialogue? All the options are in the same places.....
Good=top
Whatever the middle is
Bad= bottom

The problem is the options are never fully clear, when I first played Mass Effect and talked to that reporter I had no idea that by saying "this conversation is over" I'd punch out an unarmed woman, and one of my female friends had no idea by saying "gee thanks" to the consort's ****ty gift of words her PC would be raped.

And that's exactly the sort of situation I'd hope to avoid in DA2. The addition of icons may help a little, but it will never be as good as full-text.

[BlackyBlack]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

However... I can do without the dialogue wheel. I am not interested in a voice acted main character at all. It is a waste of resources. The voice files eat too much disc space. And what is worse is that DLCs have to be voice acted as well: This will lead without doubt to DLCs which will avoid voice acting. And this we will get us more DLCs that are either hack and slash or are not focused on the main character. We already know from ME1/ME2 that voice acting is expensive and that it is hard to get the voice actors on a schedule that matches the production schedule. So this fear is not unrealistic.

I much prefer a voicer protagonist over a mute one. It's more cinematic and I get more attached to him/her

[DarthCaine]

I'm totally pro voiced protagonist. It's just the "paraphrasing" that's the problem. The Witcher did it great and I had no problem with its dialogue system

[ViSeiRa]

Let's hope they consider it at some point, I don't care as much about it being implemented as I care about them actually having an internal debate/consideration of the idea.

[In Exile]

The problem isn't even paraphrasing. The problem is absolutely insane actions anchored to dialogue choices. If I choose "This interview is over!" and Shepard literally says, "This interview is over!" and then slugs someone in the face, the mere fact Shepard will say this gives me no indication of the impending beatdown. The problem is that the action has to be anchored to something more than just the line of dialogue, forcing you to infer action from dialogue. DA doesn't have this problem because the PC doesn't do anything. When you have the PC run back (like when Wynne collapsed) or stare like a slack-jawed yokel that is really annoying because you have no control over those actions.

[DanaScu]

BlackyBlack wrote...
I much prefer a voicer protagonist over a mute one. It's more cinematic and I get more attached to him/her

And I'm the opposite. I prefer a mute pc over a voiced one that doesn't sound like I think that my character should sound, doesn't have the inflections in the voice that I think should be there, and ends up using dialogue that I don't want him/her to say. I want to play a role playing game, instead of watch a semi interactive cinematic event/movie that takes a lot of things out of my control. I end up not particularly caring that much about the character.

I've played through DA:O more than ME or ME2. Personal opinion. Every new piece of information makes DA2 more of a "wait and see" game for me. Your mileage may vary.