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[ezrafetch]

Table of Contents
I. Introduction
II. The Widow Anti-Material Rifle
III. Keys to Playing the Widow Soldier
IV. Discussion of Powers
V. Discussion of Equipment
VI. Discussion of Squadmates
VII. Credits: Other Media

I. Introduction

While it's not actually a sniper's maxim, in popular culture, the sniper has the maxim of "one shot, one kill."  Essentially it means to "waste not, want not", but in a radically different context.  You don't want to waste bullets.  Plain and simple.

At least in ME2, the longstanding tradition is this: if you want to snipe, you play the Infiltrator class.  With Assassination Cloak, the Infiltrator has the ability to line up kills with due expedience, using the time provided by the Cloak along with the scope dilation to line up a headshot for the kill.  However, the Soldier is just as effective of a sniper as an Infiltrator.

Here's some general numbers:

Assassin + Assassination Cloak: +90% Damage
Commando + Adrenaline Rush: +155% Damage

From those numbers, we can easily see that given similar scenarios where only the class is the variable, the
Soldier can actually put out more damage than the Infiltrator.  Of course, this is not to put down Infiltrators, but first and foremost this is a Widow Soldier guide and second, the Infiltrator has a drastically different style of play.  The fact that the Cloak, well, cloaks, makes for a different style of play for the Infiltrator.

If you follow the One Shot, One Kill maxim, the Widow Soldier can be one of the most powerful classes in the game.  Its damage output is almost unparalleled, and its ability to thrive in all ranges makes the class easily adaptable to whatever situation is thrown at it.

And, as a note, the guide is generally geared towards playing on Insanity, where there's protection everywhere.  And where the Widow isn't able to one-shot, say, the Reaper in one hit (or something like that, I'm not sure if it's true).

This is an analogue to IMNWME's Claymore Soldier guide and the general guide (which mostly closely examines Revenant Soldiers).  I noticed that the initial guide by Average Gatsby sort of focused on the Revenant, and since IMNWME's focused on the Claymore, I figure that the Widow deserves its dues.  Each class yields radically different tactics in gameplay, so perhaps each one deserves its own guide.

II. The Widow Anti-Material Rifle

Just some stats, in case you were wondering:
Base Damage: 368.3
Damage Modifiers: Armor - 1.5x, Barrier - 1.0x, Shields - 1.0x
Range Modifiers: Long - 1.0x, Middle - 1.0x, Short - 1.0x
Hitbox Multipliers (educated guess): Headshot* - 2.0x, Rest of Body - 1.0x
One shot per clip, 13 clips in total.  Ammo pickup yields one to two shots for the Widow.

With 5/5 Sniper Rifle Upgrades, all special upgrades:
Base Damage + 5/5 Sniper Rifle Upgrades: 552.45
Damage Modifiers: Armor - 2.0x, Barrier - 1.0x, Shields - 1.0x
Range Modifiers: Long - 1.0x, Middle - 1.0x, Short 1.0x
Hitbox Multipliers (educated guess): Headshot* - 2.5x, Rest of Body - 1.0x
One shot per clip, 13 clips in total.  Ammo pickup yields one to two shots for the Widow.

*This is an educated guess with the hitboxes, but from simple field testing, it seems like you get about 2.0x without the Headshot upgrade.  The Widow's insanely high base damage makes it a little hard to generate accurate data, but it's certainly possible that the hitbox for Headshots yields only a 1.5x damage boost.  Either way, it's a heck of a lot of damage.

III. Keys to playing the Widow Soldier

1. Utilize all ranges of combat
While a Widow Soldier is primarily a sniper, you're still a Soldier.  You're in the unique position that you have access to every weapon outside of the SMG.  If an enemy moves into the middle range where the Assault Rifle is a better choice, switch to it.  If an enemy moves into short range where you're better off unloading a shotgun in the enemy's face, switch to it.  This will not only provide longevity for your Widow (after all, the Widow doesn't carry a lot of ammo), but make combat more satisfying and make you as efficient as you can be.  You're a sniper, but since you're a Soldier, you have guns for all ranges, so use them.  If you can close in and satisfyingly eliminate the rest of the enemy horde via shotgun headshots, do it.

2. Utilize all guns
It's a corollary to the above point, but every gun has an applicable situation, especially with the Widow Soldier.  Use the gun which best suits the range you're in.  Even your Heavy Pistol has its uses.  The whole guns thing will be explained in the section V, where I discuss equipment.

3. "You are a Soldier and You Have Adrenaline Rush, So Use It"
This holds especially true with the Widow.  Soldiers do not inherently have sniper scope dilation, so when you are lining up a shot, use Adrenaline Rush to give you the extra time you need to line up the shot.  Add on the insane damage boost from Adrenaline Rush, and it becomes hard to justify sniping outside of Adrenaline Rush.  When in combat, I usually consider the use of Adrenaline Rush to be an offensive tool.  If you have to strip off non-armor protection, I would suggest holding off Adrenaline Rush until you know you can eliminate an opponent in one Adrenaline Rush cycle (i.e. one activation plus its cooldown) or you know you have the time to set up another Adrenaline Rush cycle by switching from one weapon to another.

You can also use Adrenaline Rush to close distances, which is extremely effective, and should be used as often as you can deem it prudent.  When you switch your weapon (which the cooldown of Adrenaline Rush is well suited for), look for a new position where you can flank or post up for effective use of the sniper rifle, and use Adrenaline Rush to get there, root out the forces there with a few shotgun blasts, and get to real work.  I highly discourage defensive posturing with Adrenaline Rush unless you know you're going to get owned since you took cover too far up or got flanked, in which case it's useful to get to cover you can actually use without getting eliminated.

As a side note, since you get a sick amount of time dilation from Adrenaline Rush, which doesn't affect movement, your melee's speed isn't affected at all.  So where you could only melee twice, under Adrenaline Rush you can melee around 4-5 times.  You can challenge Husks to fistfights this way, which yields entertaining results.

4. "If You're Going to Snipe, Snipe Well, My Friend"
While in theory, you have plenty of time to line up a shot with Adrenaline Rush, that's usually in a vacuum where enemies do not have the "eliminate Shepard but leave the squadmates perfectly fine" mindset in a battle.  You're going to get shot at, and getting hit throws off your aim like crazy, which leads to wasting bullets, which for the Widow is sacrilegious.  The tip here is to learn how to essentially "quickscope," as much as a quasi-shooter like ME2 will allow.  The essence of quickscoping is to center your target in your crosshairs as much as possible, and then finally aim down the scope.  If you've done it right, you only need to be scoped in for a second or two at the most before you fire off your headshot and earn your kill.  This leaves you out in the open less.  You take less damage, and it makes you look pro, so...win/win.

Keep in mind that while the Widow is beyond excellent on taking on Armor and Health, it's subpar for removing Barrier and Shields.  If you can, eliminate most of an enemy's shield or barrier before taking your Widow shot.  You can do this via squadmate abilities/weapons or your own non-Widow weapons.  While your Widow will always your weapon of choice, you still have limited ammo, so while you should apply the Widow liberally to get your kills, the Widow is less suited to setting up your kills (it's not called the Half-Widow, so try not to use it to get halfway there, use it to GET THERE!!!!).  Note that once you do get your Headshot Damage upgrade for the Sniper Rifle (special upgrade once you get 3/5 Damage Upgrades), you can one-shot most grunt units (i.e. Collector Drones) in one headshot from full Barrier or shield, so if you know you can get the kill without stripping protection at all, then by all means go for it.

IV. Discussion of Powers

The Soldier has six skills available to them:

Adrenaline Rush
Concussive Shot
Disruptor Ammo
Incendiary Ammo
Cryo Ammo
Combat Mastery

and then whatever bonus skill.

As always, max Adrenaline Rush and Combat Mastery as soon as possible.  The evolutions of these powers that we're looking for for the Widow Soldier are Heightened Adrenaline Rush and Commando.  Since you can only get one Widow shot off regardless of the evolution of Adrenaline Rush, you might as well take the one with greater time dilation (thus helping you set up your shot better) and greater damage modifiers (making your shot more pro).

From there, you pick three Ammo Powers, max those and drop a point into Concussive Blast as an anti-Husk measure.  The question is, which ammo powers, and what evolutions do you want?

Disruptor Ammo is the anti-shield, anti-synthetic ammo power.  The Heavy evolution provides 20% more damage (i.e. +60%) over the Squad (+40%) evolution of the power.

Incendiary Ammo is the part anti-armor, part crowd-control ammo power. The Inferno evolution provides 60% fire damage and a 3m blast radius, while the Squad simply provides 40% fire damage to the whole squad.

Cryo Ammo is the strictly crowd-control ammo power.  The Improved evolution provides 7s of freeze duration while
the Squad evolution provides the 5s of freeze duration to the whole squad.

It's also important to mention the bonus Ammo Powers:

Armor-Piercing Ammo is an anti-armor, anti-health ammo power.  The Tungsten evolution provides a +70% damage bonus, while the Squad variety provides +50% for the entire squad.

Warp Ammo is an anti-armor, anti-barrier ammo power.  The Heavy evolution provides +50% damage bonus, while the Squad variety provides +35% for the entire squad.

Shredder Ammo is simply an anti-health ammo power.  The Improved evolution provides +80% damage bonus, while the Squad variety provides +60% to the entire squad.  But playing on Insanity, everything has protection, so Shredder Ammo generally sucks unless you are trying to emulate a certain villain.

Generally, you want two Squad Ammos and one "Heavy"/"Improved" evolution to keep for yourself.  This allows you to help your squad's damage depending on what you're facing, and a "Heavy"/"Improved" evolution since you want something super good for yourself.

For Squad ammos, the best picks are Disruptor Ammo, Warp Ammo, and Cryo Ammo.  Disruptor and Warp Ammo both can help your party more easily deal with protections via gunfire (given longer squadmate power cooldowns, they will fire a lot more), while Cryo Ammo provides crowd control via freezing.  If you're going as a "pureblood" Soldier without bonus powers, you're stuck with Cryo.  I generally suggest if you can to avoid Cryo with Widow soldiers, because frozen enemies tend to fall over behind cover, which quite obviously means you can't snipe them, which is sad because I love Cryo in all other instances.  However, on some missions where you don't snipe a whole lot (Reaper IFF comes to mind), Cryo is especially useful.  If you take Infermo Ammo for yourself (see below), it's far less necessary to take Cryo as Inferno has built in crowd control.  But if you are looking for extra crowd control (for instance, if your preferred squad lacks in crowd control), then look no further than Squad Cryo Ammo.

For an ammo for yourself, the best picks are Inferno and Tungsten Ammo.  I generally prefer Inferno in this instance because of the crowd control (and generally it's hilarious to watch enemies try to put out fires on themselves), but if you're just looking for pure damage, then take Tungsten.

While there are other Ammo combinations, these are the ones I would usually suggest:

Squad Disruptor, Squad Cryo, Inferno *
Squad Disruptor, Squad Warp, Inferno *
Squad Disruptor, Squad Incendiary, Heavy Warp
Squad Disruptor, Squad Incendiary, Tungsten
[*]

I personally utilize the first if I'm taking a "pureblood" approach and the second if I'm going no holds barred (denoted by *).

If you've noticed, I've neglected to mention pretty much all of the other active bonus powers by only mentioning the ammo powers.  This is because of the nature of Soldier gameplay, especially on Insanity.  You're going to be doing little in terms of powers but spam Adrenaline Rush to enhance your killing power.  All other active powers just get in the way.  It's pretty key to use Adrenaline Rush liberally since it allows you to take control of the battlefield through either straight-up killing dudes or setting up your "straight-up killing dudes" parts.  If you did have to pick an active bonus power, I'd choose something like a 1pt Slam or Neural Shock to disable enemies, but Concussive Shot already does that reasonably well and so becomes less useful.

A general explanation of Ammo Powers by Simbacca can be found here: Ammo Powers!

Your Widow Soldier should probably look something like this, at the end (Xs denote level of skill):

XXXX Heightened Adrenaline Rush
X Concussive Shot
XXXX Squad Ammo #1
XXXX Squad Ammo #2
XXXX "Heavy/Improved" Ammo
XXXX Commando

NOTE:
While I suggest against taking an active bonus power in the discussion above, you can simply replace Concussive Shot with that active bonus power (top options are Neural Shock, Slam).  If you decide that you wish to run Flashbang Grenade (a fantastic skill but I think for Widow Soldiers it works at less than maximum effectiveness), then you will have to divert skill points away from Ammo Powers because Flashbang isn't entirely worth it until you dump more points into it (at least level two [XX] or level three [XXX]), though for maximum effectiveness one should really go with it maxed out [XXXX - Improved].  You'd have to give up either a Squad Ammo or your Heavy/Improved Ammo.  If you do so I'd suggest dropping Squad Cryo/Warp, switching Inferno to Squad Incendiary and go with Improved Flashbang.

As long as you have Heightened Adrenaline Rush, Commando, and your Widow, you will kill everything easily.  The question is how much survivability you want with your build.

BE AWARE!
You are a Soldier.  You don't really need Eezo since those upgrades are useless to you.  But you do have the option to respec and/or adjust your bonus power!  If you are about to go onto the Reaper IFF and know that Squad Warp is not as good as Squad Cryo, respec into Squad Cryo!  It makes your life a ton easier, and if you got the Long Service Bonus (enough eezo to take a bath in), then you can respec almost all the time.  Cycle to the ammo bonus powers that are the best for a mission because those abilities, while not necessarily being the difference between life and death, can mean the difference between an incredibly hard time and just a hard time (or even an easy time).

V. Discussion of Equipment

    A. Weapons

Sniper Rifle:
You're a Widow Soldier, so it's at least obvious that you're going to be using the Widow as your Sniper.

Assault Rifle:
You can decide between the Avenger, the Vindicator, the Geth Pulse Rifle, or the Collector Assault Rifle.  The Vindicator as the highest DPS, best accuracy and second least recoil, but has the least ammo and overall rate of fire.  The Avenger is tied for worst DPS, has probably the worst accuracy and recoil, but has the second-highest ammo count and a very good rate of fire.  The Geth Pulse Rifle has better DPS than the Avenger and the Collector Assault Rifle, has probably the most ammo, and variable rate of fire with reasonable recoil.  Also note that it sacrifices a bit of the Armor damage modifier to have higher Barrier and Shield damage modifiers.  The Collector Assault Rifle is tied for the worst DPS, tied for best accuracy with the least recoil, but with fairly low ammo count and low rate of fire.

From there, it's preference.  Compensating for the lower rate of fire and low ammo count that the Widow has would entail taking anything but the Vindicator.  Playing off of the general "playstyle" of a Widow Soldier would probably entail taking the Vindicator with the much higher DPS.

The addition of the Mattock (Firepower Pack DLC) largely renders every other Assault Rifle obselete.  High rate of fire (seems to be as fast as you can fire), reasonable damage yield pretty high DPS and reasonable ammo capacity (at least more effective shots than the Vindicator) means that the weapon is extremely effective.  Just don't take it into close quarters; as a semi-automatic battle rifle, its CQB ability is extremely lacking (though you can do so with the Avenger and Geth Pulse Rifle).

Heavy Pistol:
It's either the Predator or the Carnifex.  I'd usually suggest taking the Carnifex, unless you use the Vindicator, in which case you may want to take the Predator to just have more ammo.  The Carnifex is pretty pro at stripping armor, and you can even take down Harbinger's armor in one Adrenaline Rush cycle on Insanity, which means there's defnitely a viable non-Widow method of quickly eliminating Harbinger.

The addition of the Phalanx (Firepower Pack DLC) doesn't change the picture much.  The Carnifex has the highest DPS of the pistols still.  Though if you are looking to faux-snipe with a pistol or enjoy laser sights on weapons, the Phalanx is worth a look.  It does have a higher ammo count than the Carnifex so if you appreciate the stopping power of a hand cannon but want more ammo, then look towards the Phalanx.

Shotguns:
Once again, you have a preference here.  Compensating for ammo count and rate of fire concerns means you take the Scimitar, while going for pure damage and perfectly fitting the playstyle you choose the Eviscerator.  I'd say the Katana falls more towards the Eviscerator than the Scimitar, which makes it just a worse Eviscerator under Adrenaline Rush.  You can actually pull off two Scimitar shots under Heightened Adrenaline Rush, which I'm slightly certain no other shotgun can do.

The Geth Plasma Shotgun is a peculiar beast.  Capable of highest damage per firing (burns up two shots to achieve this) through charging and capable of engaging foes in medium range, the Geth Plasma Shotgun is certainly a viable option.  However, low ammo count and the inability to charge the shotgun in cover diminish the Geth Plasma Shotgun's capabilities.  Given the correct playstyle, though, the Geth Plasma Shotgun can be devastating.

Heavy Weapons:
You don't exactly need Heavy Weapons to function effectively as a Widow Soldier, but if you're going to take one I'd suggest the Arc Projector, the Grenade Launcher, or just bringing your best friend, the Cain around.

    B. Armor

You have a couple sets of uncustomizable armor that will do in the early game (i.e. Cerberus Assault Armor, Collector Armor), but you're better off customizing the N7.  Since there are a ton of options, I'm only going to list the more relevant choices for Soldiers.  Generally, you're looking for +Damage modifiers, with +Shields and
+Health modifiers as icing on the cake, but really equipment only marginally alters the entire experience.

Head:
Kuwashii Visor: +10% Headshot Damage
Recon Hood: +5% Weapon Damage
Kestrel Helmet: +5% Headshot Damage, +3% Weapon Damage, +3% Shields

Chest:
N7: +3% Power Damage
Aegis Vest: +5% Health
Shield Harness: +5% Shields
Kestrel Torso Sheath: +10% Melee Damage, +5% Weapon Damage, +3% Shields

Shoulders:
N7: +3% Weapon Damage
Strength Boost Pads: +25% Melee Damage
Kestrel Shoulder Pieces: +8% Shields, +10% Melee Damage

Arms:
Stabilization Gauntlets: +5% Weapon Damage
Kestrel Arm Sheathing: +10% Melee Damage, +3% Shields, +3% Weapon Damage

Legs:
Stimulator Conduits: +10% Storm
Life Support Webbing: +10% Health
Kestrel Power Pack: +8% Shields, +5% Heavy Weapon Ammo

VI. Discussion of Squadmates

I'd naturally assume that a Soldier could get by without Squadmates, go all "ONE MAN ARMYYYY" on the Collectors and be able to do it, but squadmates make it a heck of a lot easier.  Two things to look for are additional help in stripping shields and barriers, and providing some sort of crowd control.

In providing the former, you really can't go wrong with Miranda.  Overload + Warp, and her passive also increases your damage.  Basically as pro as it gets.

In providing the latter, you can go a few ways.  If you want to use biotics then run with Jacob, Samara/Morinth (Morinth is probably the better option with Dominate, actually), or Jack.  Grunt is his own crowd control by just running around and being krogan, thus becoming a crazy tank.  Other options include Tali and Legion, with their combat drones, but Legion is the preferable one as he is less squishy and can also get the Widow, which could probably make the game explode from all the awesome double Widow action going on (however, given Drone lifespan and power cooldown, Drone seems to be a subpar crowd control option compared to other available abilities).  You can also use Kasumi, who has Flashbang Grenade available to her which is terrific crowd control (with Overload to boot).

Also, Zaeed works because he is awesome.

In general, however, it actually rarely matters who you put on your squad because each potential squadmate will provide some sort of CC and some sort of defense stripping.  If you play smart, you'll be fine.

VII. Credits/Other Media
I've poked around for some of the more basic info and stats from here and the ME wikia, so thanks to them for providing it.

Other things such as videos go here too.  I'm a 360 player so I can't really record any, but if there are videos out there, I'll add them here with the appropriate credit due.

Thanks, everyone.  I thoroughly enjoyed sniping with the Soldier and accrued some residual knowledge which I thought would be helpful if all condensed into one place.  Comments, critique are all appreciated, as there's no such thing as a completely comprehensive guide, let alone on the first try.

-e.

[*]Apparently I'm having formatting issues.  Dealing with them.

Modifié par ezrafetch, 10 septembre 2010 - 03:31 .

[Tlazolteotl]

If you're using squad cryo, I'd like to recommend Kasumi spec'ed for Overload.

Prioritising Overload 3, Passive 3, then Area Overload and Master Infiltrator .. 3, 4, 4, 2 at level 29.

The -25% recharge bonus is awesome for overload spamming, and consequently foes ought to freeze in short order.

I tend to use her other powers thus .. flashbang stops lots of foes shooting for some time (if you need breathing room .. and the knockdown effect = one easy snipe), whilst shadow strike is mainly used to make her go into hiding and recharge her shields (the damage she deals is a bonus, really).

[ajayatfringefx]

Yeah flashbang is an awesome power, and I think soldiers should have it instead of maxing disruptor.

I usually have:

XXXX Ad. Rush

XXXX Commando

XXXX Inferno

XX Disruptor

XXXX Squad Cryo

XXX Flashbang



I use Zaeed for squad disruptor and always have allies without effective ammo powers with cryo, then switch back to inferno or something.



Just a note for soldiers, the Amp shoulder pads and Umbra visor are helful because of the 5% power damage (because if you aren't using the widow that often and rely on inferno ammo to burn through enemies).

[ezrafetch]

While I forgot to mention this in the guide (I'll update it in a bit), the Soldier can really choose anyone as squadmates. Kasumi with Overload + Flashbang is a mix of extra defenses and CC, so she can serve well as a squadmate. All squadmates have some combination of CC and extra defense stripping, so all of them work very well. I always prefer using Miranda and Grunt because Grunt is as tank as tank gets, plus krogan are pro, and Miranda is well...Miranda.



As I mentioned in the guide, I generally dislike and discourage taking active powers as a bonus power, because as a Soldier (especially abusing the Widow) you'll want to be activating Adrenaline Rush as often as possible. Any use of an active power really gets in the way of pumping out AR kill after AR kill, at least for me. Because you have all the guns, you're going to be the primary damage dealer to begin with, so I personally found that the other business is best left to the squadmates. It's mostly a matter of addressing Soldier weaknesses or building on Soldier strengths, so there's no truly wrong answer, but in this case if your squadmates do a reasonable job addressing the weaknesses, I usually see no point in doing so and prefer to just build on the strengths.



With regards to using Squad Cryo, I usually don't like to use it, as I stated in the guide. I usually don't like leaving Disruptor at level 2, I'd rather max it out because you're already dumping in the points to get to Inferno Ammo to begin with. Of course, this is likely just my paranoia with leaving points unspent.



With regards to the Amplifier Plates and Umbra Visor, you're basically just enhancing the Ammo Powers. You're not going to get a recognizable amount of extra power out of them, plus the Umbra Visor essentially provides the same benefits as the Recon Hood. I personally use the Visor anyways because the 10% Headshot bonus is awesome sauce. While the Amplifier Plates provide the most damage boost, I prefer to get some Melee Damage out of the shoulders because I do still get plenty in the business of enemies, but Amplifier Plates are definitely still a reasonable option. I'll add them.

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

Great guide. Though I think squad cryo is fantastic - if an enemy falls behind cover after being frozen, I just forget about him and go head-shoot someone else.

The target is neutralized for 5 seconds, and when he gets back up your squaddies are there to freeze him again. Also, on the chance that it falls and is not hidden behind cover, frozen targets take double damage. Just my opinion, but I would always go squad cryo over any level 4 disruptor.

Modifié par V0luS_R0cKs7aR, 23 juillet 2010 - 08:59 .

[ezrafetch]

It's a fair point. I always noticed that Squad Cryo actually slowed down my killing speed more than anything else, since I somehow plowed through battles rather quickly (even with missing the Sniper Upgrade from Grunt's recruitment mission...oops). Finding those last frozen guys on the ground at the end always seemed a chore more than anything else and dragged on fights. I'll retest Squad Cryo since I dismissed it rather early on in my playthrough, but I'm guessing to find a similar result. I suppose my theory is that if you have enough damage output, you don't need crowd control, which is why I tend to run Squad Warp Ammo.



It's certainly true that if your entire squad happens to be lacking in crowd control (loyalty missions definitely come to mind), you'll need Squad Cryo. Grunt was usually enough crowd control for me so scenario that would require Squad Cryo were very few. Squad compositions where Squad Cryo would be necessary (at least in theory) would involve some combination of Garrus, Legion, Tali, Thane, Zaeed, sometimes Mordin and Miranda. They all have subpar crowd control skills (i.e. Concussive Shot, Drone) so it's necessary to compensate for that with Squad Cryo.



Once there's more feedback or other tips/etc. I'll update the guide a bit more.

[Bozorgmehr]

ezrafetch wrote...

It's a fair point. I always noticed that Squad Cryo actually slowed down my killing speed more than anything else, since I somehow plowed through battles rather quickly (even with missing the Sniper Upgrade from Grunt's recruitment mission...oops). Finding those last frozen guys on the ground at the end always seemed a chore more than anything else and dragged on fights. I'll retest Squad Cryo since I dismissed it rather early on in my playthrough, but I'm guessing to find a similar result. I suppose my theory is that if you have enough damage output, you don't need crowd control, which is why I tend to run Squad Warp Ammo.

It's certainly true that if your entire squad happens to be lacking in crowd control (loyalty missions definitely come to mind), you'll need Squad Cryo. Grunt was usually enough crowd control for me so scenario that would require Squad Cryo were very few. Squad compositions where Squad Cryo would be necessary (at least in theory) would involve some combination of Garrus, Legion, Tali, Thane, Zaeed, sometimes Mordin and Miranda. They all have subpar crowd control skills (i.e. Concussive Shot, Drone) so it's necessary to compensate for that with Squad Cryo.

Once there's more feedback or other tips/etc. I'll update the guide a bit more.

Cryo Ammo is awesome - it's my favorite and one of the most effective ammo powers around (too bad there're no squadies with Cryo Ammo to bring along - I'm an Adept addict btw so I can't use Cryo)

All I've to say about Cryo Ammo is that a frozen enemy = death enemy, disabling enemies will increase overall combat effectiveness considerably. It doesn't look like much on the drawing board (no dmg bonus against any sort of protection / chance to freeze target), but in-game Cryo Ammo is wonderful (and entertaining).

The best way to show what Cryo Ammo can do is to check out Cruc1al's Solo Soldier in Dantius Tower One 

Nice guide Ezrafetch

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 26 juillet 2010 - 10:01 .

[IMNWME]

Shotguns:

Once again, you have a preference here. Compensating for ammo count and rate of fire concerns means you take the Scimitar, while going for pure damage and perfectly fitting the playstyle you choose the Eviscerator. I'd say the Katana falls more towards the Eviscerator than the Scimitar, which makes it just a worse Eviscerator under Adrenaline Rush. You can actually pull off two Scimitar shots under Heightened Adrenaline Rush, which I'm slightly certain no other shotgun can do.

This is true. Only the Scimitar can get off 2 shots during a Rush. The second shot will come out just before Rush expires, but it's there. It takes some getting used to with the timing, tho.

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

ezrafetch wrote...

It's a fair point. I always noticed that Squad Cryo actually slowed down my killing speed more than anything else, since I somehow plowed through battles rather quickly (even with missing the Sniper Upgrade from Grunt's recruitment mission...oops). Finding those last frozen guys on the ground at the end always seemed a chore more than anything else and dragged on fights. I'll retest Squad Cryo since I dismissed it rather early on in my playthrough, but I'm guessing to find a similar result. I suppose my theory is that if you have enough damage output, you don't need crowd control, which is why I tend to run Squad Warp Ammo.

It's certainly true that if your entire squad happens to be lacking in crowd control (loyalty missions definitely come to mind), you'll need Squad Cryo. Grunt was usually enough crowd control for me so scenario that would require Squad Cryo were very few. Squad compositions where Squad Cryo would be necessary (at least in theory) would involve some combination of Garrus, Legion, Tali, Thane, Zaeed, sometimes Mordin and Miranda. They all have subpar crowd control skills (i.e. Concussive Shot, Drone) so it's necessary to compensate for that with Squad Cryo.

Once there's more feedback or other tips/etc. I'll update the guide a bit more.

Sorry, just to clarify - I meant give your squad cryo ammo while the Widow has Warp, Inferno or Tungsten ammo. That way, even if you missed that headshot with the Widow and the target is still somehow alive but down to health, the squaddies will be able to almost instantly freeze (and subsequently destroy) the target.

I myself never use cryo ammo with the Widow. Or disruptor ammo.

[ezrafetch]

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

Sorry, just to clarify - I meant give your squad cryo ammo while the Widow has Warp, Inferno or Tungsten ammo. That way, even if you missed that headshot with the Widow and the target is still somehow alive but down to health, the squaddies will be able to almost instantly freeze (and subsequently destroy) the target.

I myself never use cryo ammo with the Widow. Or disruptor ammo.

I understood what you meant the first time (I wouldn't suggest anything other than Inferno or Tungsten on a Soldier).  To me, you're giving up a significant chunk of total squad damage by not giving a Squad Ammo that provides damage bonuses.  Squad Cryo gives survivability, while Squad Warp/Disruptor provides more damage (and ultimately efficiency).  Given that I haven't really had survivability problems, I never found the need for it.  The other Squad Ammos seem to make the mission go faster, though I have no way to confirm this (at least I think it does). 

I'll be redoing the Suicide Mission to change my file (changing to destroy the base instead of keep it), so I'll try it twice, once with Squad Cryo and once with Squad Warp.  I'll try to quantify speed, deaths, other assorted major holdups and etc. to see which is more efficient or better..it won't be a scientific experiment or observation at all, but it'll be the best I can do on a 360.  Perhaps it's a playstyle issue more than anything.

Modifié par ezrafetch, 27 juillet 2010 - 08:38 .

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

ezrafetch wrote...
I understood what you meant the first time (I wouldn't suggest anything other than Inferno or Tungsten on a Soldier).  To me, you're giving up a significant chunk of total squad damage by not giving a Squad Ammo that provides damage bonuses.  Squad Cryo gives survivability, while Squad Warp/Disruptor provides more damage (and ultimately efficiency).  Given that I haven't really had survivability problems, I never found the need for it.  The other Squad Ammos seem to make the mission go faster, though I have no way to confirm this (at least I think it does).  

I think it's a play style issue too, as I don't mind giving up squad damage - my style of play has me being the primary damage dealer, with the rest of my squad responsible for CC and attracting attention so I can flank.

When using the Widow, I also don't like people shooting at me (it's especially bad on insanity), so I try to one-shoot them or get my squadmates to freeze them.  Relying on my teammates to do damage with squad warp means that I kill slower (when facing Collectors as I'll be using squad warp instead of heavy). Sure, my teammates kill faster, but on the harder difficulties I find it pretty difficult to rely on my squaddies to kill things for me. My Widow is much more reliable, and I like one-shotting Collectors with Heavy Warp.   

The only other way to get Squad Warp is to use Jack...but Jack is utterly useless on hardcore/insanity. I might as well go with just one squad mate.

[Alamar2078]

Question: Why not develope all of the Soldier's ammo powers to be the non-squad variety??

If you need Squad Disruptor then let Zaeed handle it ; Squad Inferno is Grunt or Jacob ; Squad AP Ammo can be Garrus.

This way your Shep. can be specced with the best version of all of the ammo powers they want without the squad hurting for powers of their own. This somewhat limits the squadmates you carry along for any mission but so far I find this works great for me on Insanity Difficulty.

Granted it's boring doing Miranda + Squad Ammo Person + Shep most of the time but IMHO it's an effective group.


EDIT:  Ok you do give up a lot of the options for crowd control but Shep's weapons should be smokin' hot and I find there's only a few specific points in the game where you REALLY need a crowd control person.

Modifié par Alamar2078, 29 juillet 2010 - 10:37 .

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

Alamar2078 wrote...

Granted it's boring doing Miranda...

Objection! Exhibit A, the Normandy engine room!

But in all seriousness, some ammo powers are just better suited for CC, and should be evolved as squad powers (3 people firing CC ammo is more effective at controlling crowds than one). Disruptor and cryo ammos are the two CC ammo types, IMO - I mean, who actually uses disruptor or cryo ammo with their Widow?

[ezrafetch]

The above is what I also consider correct.



I've probably used Disruptor Ammo once or twice on super-Geth heavy missions, but I'm not sure if it was actually helpful...though it was amusing to see Geth crumple to the ground. Inferno has little impact or CC on synthetics, which is depressing, so I think in those instances I may have actually just stuck with the Squad Disruptor. But I think in every other instance, run Inferno or Tungsten, you're severely hampering your one-shot Widow chances.



Also, forcing all your squaddies to spec for squad ammos when you clearly have more points and less needs seems to be a poor strategy overall in my opinion. It allows for tons of better options for squadmates if you don't have to run ammo powers for them:



Grunt: XXXX Heavy Fortification, Krogan Warlord, Concussive Blast (anti-Husk)

Jacob: XXXX Heavy Barrier, Cerberus Specialist, Pull Field (anti-Husk), X Incendiary Ammo (given)

Zaeed: XXXX Heavy/Blast Inferno Grenade, Mercenary Warlord, Concussive Blast (anti-Husk)



Also, for Garrus I find Squad AP Ammo to be subpar, you may as well just run Squad Incendiary if you're really looking for an anti-armor effect because you also gain a CC effect (the difference here is +10% I think for one of the best CC effects in the game). Also, Jack is subpar for Insanity play, so you may as well bring it along for yourself.



And since I didn't reply to it earlier, I still consider myself the main damage dealer in the bunch (obviously as a Soldier), but there are enemies that I can't automatically one-shot with the Widow. The more damage modifiers my squadmates have, the faster those enemies get into one-shot range...so and and so forth. I very rarely poke my head out for more than two seconds and/or without Adrenaline Rush for shooting with the Widow. It's a playstyle thing: if you can be comfortable with the faster pace of play, then Squad Cryo is less efficient than Squad Warp or other options. Most definitely a higher-risk playstyle, but the prize...

[RGFrog]

Still prefer Infiltrator for one-shot/one-kill. Mainly because the way the time dialation works, it's far easier to score the headshot, IMHO, than it is with the Soldier class's Adren. Rush.

Will have to give this a try, though once I get done with DA:O ...

Modifié par RGFrog, 30 juillet 2010 - 03:35 .

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

RGFrog wrote...

Still prefer Infiltrator for one-shot/one-kill. Mainly because the way the time dialation works, it's far easier to score the headshot, IMHO, than it is with the Soldier class's Adren. Rush.

Will have to give this a try, though once I get done with DA:O ...

I think the Infiltrator is, well not better, but plays easier, as a Mantis/Widow sniper too - with the exception of damage output, Infiltrators do everything better than a Soldier spec'd as a sniper (e.g. flanking, head-shots, cloaking/hiding).

But provided that you're a pretty good shot, an Infiltrator can't touch the Widow Soldier. Adrenaline Rush has a faster cooldown than cloak, gives a much bigger damage bonus and you can shoot multiple times within its duration of action.

Modifié par V0luS_R0cKs7aR, 30 juillet 2010 - 04:36 .

[Gumbeaux Jr]

I have a save at the collector ship before I picked up the Revenant specifically for this purpose. Can't wait to pick up the widow with my soldier! Great guide!

[Alamar2078]

In the end I don't find that I lose much by using Squad Ammo on my squadmates ...



IIRC Grunt, Garrus, Zaaed would just have more points in CB if they didn't do any ammo power points. Having higher CB isn't something that I worry about. 1 is enough to kill a Husk and only rarely do I have multiple husks I want blown away. Having a passive at 3 ; Fortitude at 3 shouldn't hurt much. I miss not getting Garrus a higher Overload but I get by.



Jack & Squad Disruptor: I certainly don't choose her for her other powers so why not ...



Jacob: I usually only take him if I'm playing an Adept to chain powers. Otherwise I usually prefer Grunt.



**************************************************



Honestly [so far] I don't see any compelling reasons why you wouldn't build squadmates with squad ammo powers and leave Shep with all of the hard hitting versions of the powers.

[Alamar2078]

Request: Would it be reasonable to discuss exactly which ammo powers would be most appropriate for the Widow vs. which sorts of enemies?



For example against [most] Geth it's clear that Disruptor Ammo is the Ammo of choice. Against Vorcha either Inferno or Tungsten would be great IIRC.



However what would be better vs. Blue Suns [mostly shield based]?? Disruptor Ammo would do a number on shields but squat to health. Tungsten or Inferno or Shredder would be great once the shield went down but doesn't help with Shields at all.



Against Collectors & Harby would you be better off with a Heavy Warp Ammo as it gives bonuses vs. Barriers, Armor, and Health?? I would assume so but I guess the exact game mechanics could make a difference.

[numotsbane]

well, against Harbinger I usually softened him up with a warp or reave, then use incend/tungsten. they just have higher damage multipliers than Warp ammo.

as for blue suns, its been a while since I dusted off my widow soldier (that was like my third playthrough... so long ago now) but i recall one shotting low levels with disruptor. once again, incendiary on a softened up grunt will do.

i tend to think cry works better at short range.

[RGFrog]

Alamar, give jacob an automatic weapon, AR or SMG... Then take Jacob and grunt, both with non-squad inferno ammo. It has been the ONLY time I've liked Jacob as a squadie and probably why he only gets shotguns.

[ezrafetch]

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

RGFrog wrote...

Still prefer Infiltrator for one-shot/one-kill. Mainly because the way the time dialation works, it's far easier to score the headshot, IMHO, than it is with the Soldier class's Adren. Rush.

Will have to give this a try, though once I get done with DA:O ...

I think the Infiltrator is, well not better, but plays easier, as a Mantis/Widow sniper too - with the exception of damage output, Infiltrators do everything better than a Soldier spec'd as a sniper (e.g. flanking, head-shots, cloaking/hiding).

But provided that you're a pretty good shot, an Infiltrator can't touch the Widow Soldier. Adrenaline Rush has a faster cooldown than cloak, gives a much bigger damage bonus and you can shoot multiple times within its duration of action.

I think RGFrog's sentiment is probably true, so to use an old RPG class analogy:
The Infiltrator is more likely the balanced or "survival"-oriented build. It's built a little more well-rounded since you have more active powers that have some use. But the Soldier is based entirely on damage output, so it's really a "glass cannon" sort of class or build where you just really have to focus on those elements entirely. It's like...for Diablo II, going with a max-dex/base-vitality Faith Mat Zon vs., say, going with a max-vit Faith Mat Zon (just enough dex for the bow), which also allowed for Javelin double-dipping. One's going to likely put out a crapton more damage, but it's going to be harder to handle without dying as much. Not saying you WILL die a lot as a Widow Soldier, but you do likely have to be more careful and aware of the class's limitations.

Personally I hate changing Ammo Powers on myself, I always just slap on Inferno and roll with it unless I really run into situations where I just bum the Squad Disruptor from myself.  While I have no hard evidence, I was under the impression that Tungsten vs. Inferno was indistinguishable. So unless you really want Squad Incendiary (which if you're looking for a Squad CC power you may as well run Squad Cryo...much better), Inferno's CC is preferable to Tungsten. Then, you look at Inferno vs. Heavy Warp, and while Heavy Warp provides Barrier bonuses, I'm not sure that the killing speed is actually distinguishable, plus you once again get Inferno's CC which in my eyes makes it a better option than Heavy Warp.  You could really rely on squadmates for Squad Ammos, but I always just liked taking Miranda and Grunt around with me without having to worry about needed to tote someone along unless it was a loyalty mission.

With regards to fighting mercs, I usually stick Squad Disruptor on my teammates then run Inferno. Widow will one-shot grunts even with Inferno if I remember correctly. Squad Disruptor is the fastest way to strip shields on the harder folks which makes it easier for my Widow (or any other weapon for that matter) to finish the job as Squad Disruptor provides zero benefits vs. health, just an overheating effect. I'll go ahead and prepare a more comprehensive guide for dealing with particular types of enemies, and stick it in as soon as I can.

My much ballyhooed Squad Cryo vs. Warp efficacy Suicide Run test may not come for a little while, mostly because like RGFrog I'm also going through DAO (for the first time myself) and it's imperative that I seduce Leliana as soon as possible...

Modifié par ezrafetch, 31 juillet 2010 - 08:27 .

[Alamar2078]

I find your statements reasonable.



I did start up a Widow Soldier and I'm having a blast. Instead of just spamming Revvy with some Viper-sniping [reasonably effective but boring] I'm having to use every one of my weapons strategically and surgically.



Weapon Loadout:

-- Carnifex

-- Vindicator

-- Widow

-- Eviscerator

-- Cain or Arc Projector



I'm having to manage positioning, ranges, Ammo Powers, swapping weapons, ammo count, etc. in a fairly dynamic fashion. It's a blast. So far no deaths yet but I'm sure a charging Varren, Krogan, Husk, or a random Geth Prime will lay a hurtin' on me.

[numotsbane]

I actually died way less as a widow soldier. collector platforms were a breeze...

[ryoldschool]

Jack is pretty good on insanity if you give her pull/field. I took her on almost all missions because pull has a fast cool down and she saves you a lot of ammo because you just get them down to health and then she says "watch the landing". Collector ship trap - tosses dudes off the platforms. With the six biotic upgrades plus the two she has special - she is pretty powerful as long as you have Miranda with you.