50 réponses à ce sujet

[Sattva]

Maybe this is not the first post on this topic, for which I apologize.

But I simply need to voice my concerns.
I have a feeling that somehow the dark ritual is plain cheating in the otherwise epic storyline. It is too convenient and unobtrusive, and makes a very easy way out.

I agree that not everybody would want to sacrifice their adorable PC or their romantic interest (true for me!), but the ritual simply does not feel to me like equally hard a choice. It rubs me the wrong way plot-wise, not "explicit-content-wise". No offense to monogamy devotees.

Please tell me your thoughts on the matter...

[Sarah1281]

I don't think it's 'cheating', not the least of which because Morrigan's demon-baby could end up destroying the world.

[Giggles_Manically]

I like it since it made my White Knight Warden, have an actual bad thing on his record.



Besides that about 70% of the people on these forums who voted in the threads in my sig did it so I doubt Bioware will just ignore it.

[BelSirk]

I only have let the child born because i wanted to see all the options on Awakening including those were the second warden survive aside of me... on all the others cases... SEe ya Alistair/Secret

[phaonica]

I think it's a hard choice because I don't entirely trust Morrigan, and the *only* reason why I would agree to her ritual is to save myself or my LI. I see it as a potentially great an unnecessary risk, and participating in it is kind of selfish.



I usually choose to do it though, because my LI is usually around, clouding my judgment.

[Sarah1281]

I don't really let LIs cloud my judgement (and often don't even have them) but:

a) I don't want to die

If I was willing to let Anora be solo Queen I wouldn't have put Alistair up there with her

c) What's the point in getting the King of Ferelden all pissed at me by keeping Loghain alive for an extra week?

[phaonica]

I think that there are a lot of rewards for doing the ritual, and it just comes down to how much of a risk you perceive the DR to be, and how much of that risk you are willing to be responsible for.

[Sarah1281]

I really wish I cared at all for trying to preserve an OG or felt I didn't have the right to destroy a soul like that but I really don't. If the choice was 'destroy the OG or die' then the OG would bite it every time. Still, it sounds horribly selfish if you just spell it out like that.

[phaonica]

Well since I don't entirely trust Morrigan's motives or intentions, I'm not sure I can even buy her purifying an old god story.

My character also generally believes in the Maker and follows the Chantry and all that entails, so preserving an old god is not really something that appeals to her.

[Sarah1281]

That's dedication. My Cousland, because I couldn't really convince myself that she'd be an outright non-believer, is a cafeteria Chantry-follower and everyone else is like 'yeah, your made-up fairytale does not interest me.'

[Zjarcal]

I have no problem at all doing the DR regardless of origin, beliefs, attitude, etc.



"I don't want to die" is probably the best explanation for why I choose to do it, followed by not wanting to leave my LI alone. It may sound selfish but if I the option is there why won't I take it? I like Morrigan and I trust her to the point that I don't think she intends to unleash hell on the world with the OG baby (and I even doubt she could).



Besides, if we were able to stop an OG in the form an Archdemon with a legion of darkspawn following it, I fail to see how an baby OG will be much worse if it came to that.



Calling the DR "cheating" is nonsense. If you really feel it's a "cop out" then don't do it. If you want to have a "hard choice" then pretend that the outcome of the DR will be worse than a Blight.

[Sattva]

@ Zjarcal

Well, I usually do the DR because, like you, I'd rather spare my PC and whoever else is around.

The point to the question was if you find the DR believable storyline-wise.

There've been four Blights, they say Flemeth is very old, Morrigan tells it's Flemeth's idea... Doesn't ring a bell?

[Zjarcal]

What do you mean by "believable"? As in is it a good idea? Is it possible to actually do it? Is Flemeth a nutty old bat who is planning the fifth Blight?



Not sure what you mean exactly but I do find the DR believable as far as the story goes.

[phaonica]

Do I find the DR believable storyline-wise?

I don't see why not. In my first playthrough of the game, I hadn't hardened Alistair and he was begging me at every turn to not make him king, then Anora shows up, and is a willing and competent candidate. I thought that was awfully convenient. Being able to just leave Redcliffe and not have to choose to kill Connor or Isolde was awfully convenient. Being able to convince Zathrian to sacrifice himself and save both his people and the werewolves was awfully convenient.



I didn't personally find the DR to be awfully convenient because if it turns out to be a dragon or something that burns down villages, my character is going to feel responsible for those lives lost because she could have easily prevented it.

[Zjarcal]

Leaving Redcliffe to bring in the mages and seeing that there was no further chaos by the Demon is indeed a much better example of an awfully convenient situation. There is no way that the Demon would've stayed quiet for the time it takes to go to the Circle and back.



The DR has possible consequences and if things go kaput because of it, the Warden will surely be the one responsible. It may seem like an easy way out but we don't know for sure what consequences it may carry. So yes, it's completely believable storyline-wise.

[Remmirath]

I find it believable that either they simply haven't tried it before, or never got anybody to actually agree to it before. I think the second one is more likely.

I doubt most Grey Wardens would've gone for it, especially if they happened to be the religious sort. Even leaving those things aside, there's a first time for everything. It might just have seemed that was the right Blight to try it out for. Maybe she was looking for Urthemiel specifically for some reason.

If it was consequence-free, I'd agree it was somewhat cheap, but it clearly isn't. If nothing else, you'd always have to be left wondering if it was the right thing to have done or not.

[balmung03]

Halae Dral wrote...

I doubt most Grey Wardens would've gone for it, especially if they happened to be the religious sort. Even leaving those things aside, there's a first time for everything. It might just have seemed that was the right Blight to try it out for. Maybe she was looking for Urthemiel specifically for some reason.

I think you make a good point.  Also, during the other Blights, I don't know whether Flemeth would have sought out Grey Wardens to thrust her 'daughter' on.  I think this may have just worked out that Flemeth realized there were only a few GWs left in Ferelden to help defeat the Blight, saved them for that reason, and then had the opportunity to send Morrigan along for the ride.

If Flemeth was indeed waiting for the right Blight to try the DR, then I can understand how she'd pass up on the dragons of silence (Dumat), chaos (Zazikel), fire (Toth), and chains (Andoral).  However, I find it hilarious that the dragon corresponding to Morrigan's DR, Urthemiel, is the dragon of beauty.  That doesn't sound like a coincidence on the writers' parts.

[Sattva]

balmung03 wrote...

Halae Dral wrote...

I doubt most Grey Wardens would've gone for it, especially if they happened to be the religious sort. Even leaving those things aside, there's a first time for everything. It might just have seemed that was the right Blight to try it out for. Maybe she was looking for Urthemiel specifically for some reason.

I think you make a good point.  Also, during the other Blights, I don't know whether Flemeth would have sought out Grey Wardens to thrust her 'daughter' on.  I think this may have just worked out that Flemeth realized there were only a few GWs left in Ferelden to help defeat the Blight, saved them for that reason, and then had the opportunity to send Morrigan along for the ride.

If Flemeth was indeed waiting for the right Blight to try the DR, then I can understand how she'd pass up on the dragons of silence (Dumat), chaos (Zazikel), fire (Toth), and chains (Andoral).  However, I find it hilarious that the dragon corresponding to Morrigan's DR, Urthemiel, is the dragon of beauty.  That doesn't sound like a coincidence on the writers' parts.

Interesting. I find other peculiar coincidences, like the name of Alistair and Crows... But that's a subject for another discussion :innocent:

Other than that, I want to thank you all people for your input.
I can see now that my reaction to the DR is my own, due to the fact that I fail to see any menace in unborn babies, I'm a rather chaotic character, and I believe that there are more tints and shades to the world than just good and bad...
While "swooping is bad", the only barbarians are in the eye of the beholder.
Cheers 

[Rosveen]

Sattva wrote...
Interesting. I find other peculiar coincidences, like the name of Alistair and Crows...  

And what is this coincidence, if I may aks? For I don't really see any. Maybe it's because it's the middle of the night here where I am now and my brain doesn't like such late hours :]

About the ritual, well... In my first playthrough I had a very simple choice: killing the king of Ferelden, allowing for a OGB to be conceived or dying myself. I somehow felt Riordan wasn't going to live and the final blow will be left for me or Alistar, the latter being no alternative - letting the king die was no option, really. Since I didn't want to die and Morrigan said she wouldn't use her child for Flemeth-like ritual, I thought it was quite safe. The ritual was done, everyone was happy, end of story. The only problem was, deep down I knew something was inherently wrong with this ritual. It was too easy, too appealing, well, too god to be true. I know Morrigan didn't tell me everything. This couldn't be a normal baby, there was something more and I didn't know what. If the kid grows up to be an all-powerful god on earth wiping out cities, it will be my Warden's fault. This choice turned out to be much more difficult than I thought.

That's why I liked my second playthrough more, when I decided to spare Loghain and let him deal the final blow, with no dark rituals and demon babies. Firstly, my Warden wasn't responsible for anything that could happen after the OGB was born, because there was no OGB. Secondly, with all my disrespect for Loghain's deeds during the Blight, I remebered who he was before and wanted to give him a chance to die like he lived, for Ferelden. He died a good death, died like a soldier.

I guess the second scenario wouldn't be possible if I hated Loghain for what he did to Eamon and to me, but I can't hate him even if I want to. Consequently, I prefer not doing the ritual. It's the safest ending. And what Alistair thinks of me after I decide not to kill Loghain... If this one event was enough for him to abandon a friend, then I don't give a damn. Not for someone who cares for his hate more that he cares for his firends.

Modifié par Rosveen, 24 juillet 2010 - 09:56 .

[Homebound]

I think our choice with Morrigan's demon-child thing says more about us as the player and less about the game. I think this story element was there to test "us" in a way and what our values were and how it would change the world. Its there to invoke emotions from the player.



I think the fact that you thought nothing of being a father of a child cursed with a blight god's soul and to be raised alone by some cold-hearted, self-preserving witch speaks volumes.

[Sarah1281]

Adding a '' doesn't make that sound any less judgemental, you know.

[Homebound]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Adding a '' doesn't make that sound any less judgemental, you know.

Sarah1281 disapproves.  -17

[phaonica]

Just_mike wrote...

I think our choice with Morrigan's demon-child thing says more about us as the player and less about the game. I think this story element was there to test "us" in a way and what our values were and how it would change the world. Its there to invoke emotions from the player.

I think the fact that you thought nothing of being a father of a child cursed with a blight god's soul and to be raised alone by some cold-hearted, self-preserving witch speaks volumes.

Our own personal experiences are going to play into our choices somewhat. Hypothetically, if IRL, I'm a young woman with no children, I may not consider the emotional father-son connection because I have no experience dealing with those emotions. Does that make me callous for not thinking of it? Perhaps it makes me somewhat less qualified to make that decision, but unless someone points it out, I may not think to consider that as part of the decision.

It also depends on how much you separate yourself from your characters. I as a player have no problem executing Loghain in front of Anora, for example, but sometimes my characters do. Just because my characters do something, doesn't necessarily mean they are a reflection of me.

Modifié par phaonica, 25 juillet 2010 - 06:37 .

[Zjarcal]

Just_mike wrote...

I think our choice with Morrigan's demon-child thing says more about us as the player and less about the game. I think this story element was there to test "us" in a way and what our values were and how it would change the world. Its there to invoke emotions from the player.

I think the fact that you thought nothing of being a father of a child cursed with a blight god's soul and to be raised alone by some cold-hearted, self-preserving witch speaks volumes.

Except that if you're playing a female, you won't be the father...

Also, anytime someone calls Morrigan a cold-hearted witch I'll just link them to this little gem:

http://blog.bioware....velation-comic/

[BootOnFace]

For me,it usually depends on the ending situation. It's pretty easy to choose when Loghain is up to bat and my character is an Andrastian. Someone's gonna die. But if I'm an Elven mage with Alistair on the throne and Anora in prison, I sure as hell can't let Alistair rule a country alone! And if I wanted Anora on the throne, she would be. So it looks like I'm gonna produce demonspawn with the swamp-witch. I usually get really into the roleplay aspect, though.

Modifié par BootOnFace, 25 juillet 2010 - 10:13 .