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Tactical Murder: Revival of Bygone wonders

Débuté par Guest_SirShreK_* , juil. 22 2010 10:26

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#1
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 10:26

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In the video "Sacred Ashes" one finds Sten kicking the Darkspawn over a mountain ledge. Now, I want to do that too. Spartan style, like "THIS IS THEDAS" or so. Perhaps mentioning games by other companies is considered a sacrilage here, but let me exempliate:

Dark Messiah of Might and magic.

This game, for the first time made me realize what is meant by IMMERSIVE ENVIRONMENT. It was nicely complemented by bad story, Ugly RPG system and idiotically short campaign. But the Gameplay was GREAT.

I am wondering why game mechanics of that type can not exist in DA universe?

It would be awesome.

I understand that there are technical difficulties in formulating such combat... But..oh boy.. I would give something for it.... Won't you?

Modifié par SirShreK, 23 juillet 2010 - 08:21 .

#2
filetemo
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 10:29

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in the same line, destructible environment would be cool, smashing mobs with ancient 500 ton columns.



instead of this is thedas, I think it fits more "THIS...IS... FERELDEEEEEEEEEENNNNN"



except it's not.

#3
Skilled Seeker
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 10:37

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Well we had the one scripted statue in Awakenings that had a bunch of darkspawn standing close to it waiting to get crushed lol. But yeah I hope for more interaction with the environment and also better AI. Have the AI doing something before they notice us rather than standing still looking stupid.

#4
Khayness
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 10:37

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There is an upcoming Bethesda game what will feature similar elements. Some dark fantasy dungeon crawler stuff.

#5
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 10:37

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Khayness wrote...

There is an upcoming Bethesda game what will feature similar elements. Some dark fantasy dungeon crawler stuff.


Name.

#6
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 10:40

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But before we go off-topic. Anyone has any opinion if this can really be done?

#7
Khayness
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 10:40

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Hunted: The Demon's Forge

#8
Khayness
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 10:44

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SirShreK wrote...

Anyone has any opinion if this can really be done?


Never underestimate the power of cutscenes. Rivals the Maker itself.

#9
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 10:45

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Khayness wrote...

Hunted: The Demon's Forge


Since it is not an RPG, I would love to see DA do this... They are already advertising, FIGHT LIKE A SPARTAN. Well you can't be a Spartan these days without kicking someone's hind headfirst off some deep precipice....

#10
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 10:46

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Khayness wrote...

SirShreK wrote...

Anyone has any opinion if this can really be done?


Never underestimate the power of cutscenes. Rivals the Maker itself.


Cutscenes in my opinion are lame way of doing things... I want this real time....

#11
Guest_Puddi III_*
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 10:48

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I don't think the engine as it is can accommodate actual 3d gameplay. It's like NWN, ultimately a 2d map with 3d models placed onto it. Attempting to push someone off a cliff would just make them run into the invisible wall at the edge of the map.

I'd like to see it though. And more interactive objects, so an ogre could, for instance, rather than picking up a rock out of nowhere to throw at you, actually grab a nearby rock and throw it at you. Or knock down a small tree and use it as a club. Destructible environments as well.

Would also be cool if mages could shapeshift into a large creature capable of doing this stuff himself. Or if rogues could make more powerful bombs to sabotage various structures, and make use of more gadgets like the ballistae. Or if fighters... I dunno, I guess they could just push things off cliffs themselves.

Modifié par filaminstrel, 22 juillet 2010 - 10:49 .

#12
lv12medic
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 10:54

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Well... if you fought like a real Spartan, you'd fight in a phalanx with a group of fellow Spartans where squad cohesion is as important if not more important than individual fighting skill. But if you fight like a stylized model 300 Extreme Spartan, then yes, it'd be cool to see. However, I think DA:O had a good idea going with the finisher moves. The one thing I would worry about, is if you could kick people off cliffs, the bad guys should have the same ability.



Though kicking someone off a cliff is a lazy way to fight, letting gravity do all the work for you and all.

#13
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 10:55

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lv12medic wrote...

Well... if you fought like a real Spartan, you'd fight in a phalanx with a group of fellow Spartans where squad cohesion is as important if not more important than individual fighting skill. But if you fight like a stylized model 300 Extreme Spartan, then yes, it'd be cool to see. However, I think DA:O had a good idea going with the finisher moves. The one thing I would worry about, is if you could kick people off cliffs, the bad guys should have the same ability.

Though kicking someone off a cliff is a lazy way to fight, letting gravity do all the work for you and all.


Ai ai a Balrog is come!

I meant Spartan by the standards of the Movie 300. And individual combat in the movie to be more precise.

#14
Thomas9321
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 11:03

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I think that would work great in say the Elder Scrolls, which has more player input and is less tactical than Dragon Age. However it's not a bad idea, it could work like: "Your fighting on a ledge and you score a critical hit, your character shoves your enemy off the ledge." that would suit Dragon Age rather nicely.

#15
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 11:10

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The real fascinating feature would be UBER-crazy-powerful opponents that can not be defeated in straight-forward combat.



Let me make myself clear:



In the Sacred Ashes trailer, Morrigan kills the High-dragon with a single spell (even assuming that the Dragon was injured).... I mean, seriously, WE as PC + party do nothing different. It ideally should be impossible to take on the High-dragon directly.... A party of four kills the most powerful creature in the world, sounds all too goody-goody to my ears... BUT a party of four breaks the ice under the Dragon and plummets it into a precipice after tearing its wings/setting them on fire sounds like pwnage...

#16
R.U.N
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 11:30

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Then again the party of four might consist of a unique Golem,Flemeth's daughter, The Warden and or The Hero Of River Dane/ The Son Of Maric/one of the most skilled spies/bards in Orlais and the best Assassin from Antiva.
Also one if not the most powerful Mage from the circle who's basically an abomination.

Sounds pretty impressive if you ask me, it doesn't get much better then this in terms of 4 people.

Modifié par R.U.N, 22 juillet 2010 - 11:31 .

#17
filetemo
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 11:34

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SirShreK wrote...

The real fascinating feature would be UBER-crazy-powerful opponents that can not be defeated in straight-forward combat.

Let me make myself clear:

In the Sacred Ashes trailer, Morrigan kills the High-dragon with a single spell (even assuming that the Dragon was injured).... I mean, seriously, WE as PC + party do nothing different. It ideally should be impossible to take on the High-dragon directly.... A party of four kills the most powerful creature in the world, sounds all too goody-goody to my ears... BUT a party of four breaks the ice under the Dragon and plummets it into a precipice after tearing its wings/setting them on fire sounds like pwnage...


I think it was nice they didn't use some deus ex machina to kill the dragon in the trailer, it just showed how in game gameplay works, the warden gives orders and things die.

If only we could get ingame the blessed magic arrow leliana shoots at the emissary...

#18
Tirigon
Posté 22 juillet 2010 - 11:43

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Dark Messiah had awesome combat. Wish DA2 was like that combat-wise.

#19
winter troll
Posté 23 juillet 2010 - 12:44

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SirShreK wrote...

Khayness wrote...

There is an upcoming Bethesda game what will feature similar elements. Some dark fantasy dungeon crawler stuff.


Name.


hunted demon forge

#20
Shepard Lives
Posté 23 juillet 2010 - 01:43

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SirShreK wrote...

In the video "Sacred Ashes" one finds Sten kicking the Darkspawn over a mountain ledge. I want to do that too. Spartan style, like "THIS IS THEDAS" or so. Perhaps metioning games by other companies is considered a sacrilage here, but let me exempliate:

Dark Messiah of Might and magic.

This game, for the first time made me realize what is meant by IMMERSIVE ENVIRONMENT. It was nicely complemented by bad story, Ugly RPG system and idiotically short campaign. But the Gameplay was GREAT.

I am wondering why game mechanics of that type not exist in DA universe?

It would be awesome.

I understand that there are technical difficulties in formulating such combat... But..oh boy.. I would give something for it.... Won't you?


Yeah, would be pretty crazy to see my rogue do some parkour. Run up a column, jump off and stab that goddamned ogre in the face.:wizard:

#21
B3taMaxxx
Posté 23 juillet 2010 - 01:50

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SirShreK wrote...
Dark Messiah of Might and magic.

This game, for the first time made me realize what is meant by IMMERSIVE ENVIRONMENT. It was nicely complemented by bad story, Ugly RPG system and idiotically short campaign. But the Gameplay was GREAT.




 I agree, combat in Messiah was good, far better than Oblivion's <dare I say


 ...........but DA isn't the same type of combat simulator. It's a T A C T I C A L  RPG, and I wouldn't want it any other way..BTW, I liked Messiah's convoluted story, and it's epic weapon drops kept it's replayability up.

#22
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 23 juillet 2010 - 08:13

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R.U.N wrote...

Then again the party of four might consist of a unique Golem,Flemeth's daughter, The Warden and or The Hero Of River Dane/ The Son Of Maric/one of the most skilled spies/bards in Orlais and the best Assassin from Antiva.
Also one if not the most powerful Mage from the circle who's basically an abomination.

Sounds pretty impressive if you ask me, it doesn't get much better then this in terms of 4 people.


Yes. True.

But think like this. The Ogre is a 20 do foot tall muscle bound killing machine. If you hit it with a Star-fang sword, your strength from humanly proportions should only be able to hurt it so much. Definitely not stun or Knock-it back. Rogues taking it from front should actulally have no chance.

On the other hand, if he hits you ONCE, just the Once, you should technically be dead. I mean his hand weighs about qurter of a ton. Now think what this says about the High-dragon.

The thing I am saying is that such encounters should be rare and extremely difficult. There should traps/environments/variables available that allow you to beat him.. But NOT always in a straight forward combat....

Modifié par SirShreK, 23 juillet 2010 - 08:29 .

#23
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 23 juillet 2010 - 08:19

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lv12medic wrote...

Well... if you fought like a real Spartan, you'd fight in a phalanx with a group of fellow Spartans where squad cohesion is as important if not more important than individual fighting skill. But if you fight like a stylized model 300 Extreme Spartan, then yes, it'd be cool to see. However, I think DA:O had a good idea going with the finisher moves. The one thing I would worry about, is if you could kick people off cliffs, the bad guys should have the same ability.

Though kicking someone off a cliff is a lazy way to fight, letting gravity do all the work for you and all.


OOh.. yes They should. :)

And I equate lazy with... smart.

#24
Guest_SirShreK_*
Posté 23 juillet 2010 - 08:20

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filaminstrel wrote...

I don't think the engine as it is can accommodate actual 3d gameplay. It's like NWN, ultimately a 2d map with 3d models placed onto it. Attempting to push someone off a cliff would just make them run into the invisible wall at the edge of the map.

I'd like to see it though. And more interactive objects, so an ogre could, for instance, rather than picking up a rock out of nowhere to throw at you, actually grab a nearby rock and throw it at you. Or knock down a small tree and use it as a club. Destructible environments as well.

Would also be cool if mages could shapeshift into a large creature capable of doing this stuff himself. Or if rogues could make more powerful bombs to sabotage various structures, and make use of more gadgets like the ballistae. Or if fighters... I dunno, I guess they could just push things off cliffs themselves.


Yes. THIS is the real problem I guess.... Great post. Thanks...

#25
CalJones
Posté 23 juillet 2010 - 08:44

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Funny because I've been playing The Witcher recently and I've kicked a few guys off ledges. That's based on Bioware's Aurora engine, after all.
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