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[Sarah1281]

Further on in The Stolen Throne (the end of chapter 15) we get this:



" 'Do you speak the King's Tongue?' Maric asked, making certain to pronounce each syllable carefully.

...

'Who do you think taught it to you surfacers?' he growled. The accent was thick, but very understandable."



Hm...does this mean that Ferelden was some form of the dwarven language and that's why they have the same language if not necessarily system of writing?

[Graspiloot]

perhaps he was just being arrogant!



I love dwarves in dao, but where are the beards? Real bears I mean, not the fake ones we have now...

[BigBad]

The whole language thing always sort of made me wonder. In the game, both Dwarves and Elves speak the same language as native Fereldens, but pepper their speech with words from their native language ("shemlem", "salroka", "atrast vala", etc.). This is pretty justified for the elves, since a lot is made of how they lost most of their culture and language during their enslavement and oppression. But why do native Orzammar dwarves who have never been to the surface and who have very limited contact with surfacers, speak only the human tongue amongst themselves?

[Sarah1281]

Well, that would make sense if each country has their own language and the language of Ferelden is the same language that the dwarves used since there are plenty of evidence of a past dwarven empire in/under Ferelden and they seem to have gotten a later start than some other nations given how they're so small and widely considered backwater. I think Calenhad's unification four centuries prior was a bit on the late end.

[BigBad]

Hmn. I'd be more inclined to say that the dwarven and Tevinter languages are closely related (or mixed so much in the past that they sort of merged into a single common tongue) and Ferelden (and Orlesian, and Antivan, etc.) are languages descended from the Tevinter tongue, since we know that the Tevinter Imperium and dwarven kingdoms were pretty cozy up until the first Blight obliterated the dwarves.

[Raonar]

So, did you guys see the Rock Wraith on the DA2 page? Apparently, there really is something to the whole returning to the Stone and/or being rejected by it belief.

[BigBad]

Well, it's an interesting creature, kind of like a mix of golem and undead. But the legend behind its origin is much like the Chantry's belief about the origin of the darkspawn: something that fits into their folklore but that may or may not be the actual truth.

[Zjarcal]

Hmmm... I had never not talked to Oghren at Tapster's before heading towards the Deep Roads... gotta say after trying that, I'm not feeling too fond of him right now. <_<

[Eber]

Did you see his fade dream? If not maybe it will help you reconcile (link). Not that it excuses his behaviour but it explains why Tapster-Ohgren is in a such a bad place. Taking him to the guardian also serves to muster sympathy (link).

[Corker]

I finally put my finger on what really bugs me about the Oghren situation.

Oghren has a drinking problem.
Oghren's favorite gifts are drinks.
You can't affect Oghren's behavior until his approval is high enough.
The only way to help him sober up is to give him more booze.

W.
T.
F.

It's almost like he had two writers: one who wanted to seriously explore the ramifications of an alcoholic character, and one who was all LOL DRUNK DWARF.

[Raonar]

Yes, that always struck me as odd. At least in Awakening you can give him that toy horse.

[Zjarcal]

Eber wrote...

Did you see his fade dream? If not maybe it will help you reconcile (link). Not that it excuses his behaviour but it explains why Tapster-Ohgren is in a such a bad place. Taking him to the guardian also serves to muster sympathy (link).

Thanks for the link to the Fade dream, it was the only fade dream sequence I hadn't seen yet (and thanks to Addai for uploading it)!

Oh and just to clarify, I always talked to him at Tapsters, this time I didn't, so I got a different conversation when heading for the Deep Roads. It was his "standards must have fallen really low if they take you for a warden" comment that really ticked me off. My warden was like "seriously, you expect me to want to help you after saying that?".

I understand that he's in a terrible place and he's still probably half drunk at that point, but it sure as hell didn't endear him one bit to my warden.

@Corker:

Spot on!

What you said about two writers is so accurate. Oghren has moments like the Fade dream, the Guardian sequence, or his speech at the gates when friendly (especially this), that really make you fall for the guy, but then everything else about him serves as comic relief... it really sucks.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 10 janvier 2011 - 06:37 .

[Eber]

That was sloppy reading on my part. Oghren certainly doesn't make a good first impression there at the gate. I think I have come to take less offense after experiencing it a few times. It's less personal when you know he does it to everyone (metagaming ftw!). I did kick Oghren out of the team as soon as Branka died with one character though and that first meeting was one of the reasons for it.

Oghren's fade dream is one of the more interesting ones. Some of the best dwarf conentent is sort of hidden. You have to go out of your way to ever see Oghren's dream (Orzammar before the Circle) and to get Rica's most endearing lines you have to initially refuse Duncan and say you are considering to opt for death penalty instead of becoming a Warden. If you don't he whisks you away and you never get to hear how happy Rica is for you.
As to Oghren's not so homogenous nature I am sure that what you are picking up on is the writer's poet soul. 

If we are to belive this quote from Herman Hesse's Steppenwolf, I do, this means you are on the path to uncover the truth.

Modifié par Eber, 11 janvier 2011 - 02:12 .

[Corker]

Eber wrote...
As to Oghren's not so homogenous nature I am sure that what you are picking up on is the writer's poet soul. 

If we are to belive the quote from Herman Hesse's Steppenwolf, I do, this means you are on the path to uncover the truth.

My problem's not so much with Oghren's characterization as it is with his characterization + mechanics.

I've written before that he seems like a pretty good take on an alcoholic, right down to his 'recovery' at the end of Origins which, at the start of Awakening, appears to have only been temporary.  And I don't mind that it takes a lot of work and a little luck to put his feet on the path to reconciliation with Felsi and their kid.  And it's even fine by me that Oghren is by turns belligerent, sentimental, and bitter.

What bugs me is that the "lot of work" that's needed to help him find his way toward recovery is, mechanically, giving him gifts of alcohol.  You have to be Oghren's enabler if you want to help him, and that's... kind of messed up.

[Eber]

You are right. It is messed up.

[Sarah1281]

It might not be unrealistic, though, if enabling him's the only way that Oghren will trust/like you enough to open up so you can be in a position to influence him.

[Addai]

Corker wrote...

What bugs me is that the "lot of work" that's needed to help him find his way toward recovery is, mechanically, giving him gifts of alcohol.  You have to be Oghren's enabler if you want to help him, and that's... kind of messed up.

I never thought of that, but you're right, that's pretty f'ed up.

I'm replaying Awakening so it just hits me that Oghren literally disapproves of everything you say to him.  Pretty much everything.  He'll give approval for killing stuff, but it's like talking to him is an insult.  It goes against the very natural human grain to do things that get you a reward.  Result- I don't talk to Oghren, ever.  Whereas I kind of liked chatting with him in the regular game.

Modifié par Addai67, 11 janvier 2011 - 06:16 .

[Sarah1281]

You can get approval for talking to him but it's like navigating a freaking minefield. You have to pick all the dullest and most serious conversation options and can't even be grossed out about his TMI rash.

[BigBad]

In Awakening, it appears that Oghren's approval is dependent on his desire to be taken seriously as a Grey Warden and a man. Seems to be a natural reaction to the sheer mockery he suffered in Orzammar as the resident disgrace to the Warrior Caste and to his percieved total lack of responsibility. It really threw me off at first, since his reactions are so different to Origins, but this is Oghren trying to grow up, seeking reassurance that he's not a total failure at life from pretty much the only friend he has, the Warden.

[Raonar]

Ok, so I was fiddling with some of my screenshots and decided I jsut HAD to post this one image of pure, unadultareded dwarven awesomeness.



 And some Shale too, golems are awesome by definition after all.

Modifié par Raonar, 15 janvier 2011 - 10:20 .

[Verly]

Hi all, it's been a while. I had to remake my dwarf Vey, because my last computer went kaboom. for some reason my print screen taker that I downloaded that I always relied on to take good pictures now only takes pictures of my desktop instead of my game. I now have to use the games camera and I don't always like the result. I'll have to show some pictures later.

[Raonar]

I just took these by pressing the screenshot key (I changed it to Numpad 5) after hiding the user interface (V on my settings). That's a really nasty bug you're experiencing.

[LupusYondergirl]

@Verly: I swear by fraps for screenshots. (benefit- it takes screenshots of whatever the top window is, so you can use it in games that don't have a built-in screenshot function) Also, like Raonar says, pressing V will get rid of the quickbar, etc. I also like the Circles Be Gone mod. And then you get something like this:

(other mods- tmp's proportion fix, orion's armor, phoenix armor's daggers, more hairstyles, pineappletree tints)

And hey, I was actually able to be helpful when I just planned on pimping my new f!Brosca fic. How 'bout that.

[mousestalker]

tmp's proportion fix is a must have for dwarves, in my opinion. The difference really is night and day between vanilla and with the fix in.

[LupusYondergirl]

So true. I put the Phoenix armor on her and it lasted just until I'd leveled up enough to wear the armors made for TMP's fix. All I could see were the giant arms. Leliana gets to wear the phoenix armor now.