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[RavenousBear]

Sarah1281 wrote...

The wiki also used to claim that if you preserved the Anvil and crowned Harrowmont then he had Bhelen dragged away screaming to become a golem. 

Really? That could have been a great scene. Too bad.

[Giggles_Manically]

Caak7i wrote...

So in some ways you are the audience when watching a movie rather than being the director of the movie? Makes sense when it has many elements of a movie.

I think I need to learn how to do that instead of being a brutal dictator for my characters.

Its easy to do really (I have way to much exp. doing it though)

Just write up/think up your warden before starting the Origin.
THough get down everything you can think off.

Dain for example was a typical noble, but one who more perfered fighting and leading soldiers than intriuge.
He would have been happy to live a life as a commander and dreamed of leading an assualt with the Legion and other houses on the spawn when younger.
Dain is well read, and intelligent. But he lacks preception leading to him thinking Trian was a gigantic ass, and Bhelen being nothing more than some spineless nug he could control.
He fought in the provings cause he found it fun, not for glory at all. Dain has stage freight, he is nice to talk to but the thought of making a speech makes him want to hurl.

He was sad that Trian was going to kill him, so he tried to move first and it cost him. Mainly he feels bad for what he did and who he killed. He feels really bad for Gorim as well since he got his friend exiled. While he understands the caste system Dain dosent like it that much, since he thinks that Gorim does a better job than some nobles as well.

To close off Dain is now rather hesitant to take first choices or kill people. He is very restrained now and tries to avoid killing people unless he has to. Its almost like a loss of innocence story mixed in with some good drama.

One thing that does make him sputter though is when Leliana flirts with him, Dain isint a ladies man, by any means and making a joke about a threesome  and getting one made him almost fall over. The morning after I can imagine Gorim laughing him self silly at Dain blushing and mumbling in shock and some pride.

The last thing I really have to say is that Dain right now is changing and thats what I like to do, have a PC that changes and becomes a new person in the end.
Like Cyrus going from a human hating CE to a calm and collected person who thinks that people should just be friends.

Overall just imagine a PC and stick to it. Its worth it really.

[RavenousBear]

It must be my years of playing games where you just shoot and kill with a linear path outside of the player's control that have made me poor at RPing. The only semi-RPG game I have ever played was KOTOR and everything was clearly black and white compared to this game. Either be a selfless saint who obeys your elders or a selfish power-hungry lunatic.

It happens when your father and sister are/were SW geeks. Not that it is a bad thing, I had a blast killing stormtroopers. It is just it limited my experience in other types of games.

Now let us get back to dwarves again:

[RavenousBear]

Speaking of the ever popular Witch Hunt DLC, does anyone know if the description of Orzammar on the World Map (when you place your arrow on the brown symbol it gives you a short paragraph describing the location) is determined by whom you placed on the throne in Origins. When I imported a character who placed Bhelen on the throne, I believe it said Orzammar was reaching prosperity and possibly reaching an alliance with Ferelden.



What does it say if Harrowmont was chosen as King? I know he is stale as a King, but someone surely had a character with that choice imported to WH.

[Sarah1281]

PureMethodActor wrote...

@Sarah, so others were wondering about that particular wiki entry as well? Well I haven't looked at epilogues in a while (since gaining most of them nowadays ) but I hope that false entry was removed as well.

Personally, however, I think my Dwarf characters, roleplaying-wise, wouldn't want the throne anyway. Too jaded about everything that happened in Orzammar, happy with being Grey Wardens

If you look at the 'Dwarf Noble Ending Question' thread (or whatever it's called) which is just like the many, many others that have periodically popped up due to either a failure on the part of the search ending or a failure to actually use it, you will find someone has just asked that. Well, they seemed to think that that was true and were only asking if there was another way becoming King could happen but it's the same thing, really. Although admittedly, this was the first time I've seen someone think that the child your DNM can have with Mardy is an heir apparent...

[Bruddajakka]

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeah probably not but you can just picture a group of Desyhr's using the fact that the kid is the son of a Paragon to have it make a push for the throne.

[Sarah1281]

Bruddajakka wrote...

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeah probably not but you can just picture a group of Desyhr's using the fact that the kid is the son of a Paragon to have it make a push for the throne.

Maybe, but I think the deshyrs would be more interested in trying to take the throne themselves. Maybe if Bhelen was King and they were trying to oust the Aeducans again or they really couldn't decide on anyone else and they thought the kid was young enough to be controllable.

[Bruddajakka]

Be a good way to get rid of the whole Dictatorship. Have Bhelen assassinated then put the son of a Paragon on the Throne because after all it's the SON of a PARAGON which is so much better then the son of a mere king, and hope he's more tractable.

[Herr Uhl]

Bruddajakka wrote...

Be a good way to get rid of the whole Dictatorship. Have Bhelen assassinated then put the son of a Paragon on the Throne because after all it's the SON of a PARAGON which is so much better then the son of a mere king, and hope he's more tractable.

Why? The throne is semi-hereditary. Granted, both hail from house Aeducan.

[Bruddajakka]

Because the whole Dwarven Caste system is Paragon>King>Noble>Merchant/Warrior/Crafter/Etc>Casteless.



A Paragon would trump a King.

[Herr Uhl]

In kingly business? Since when?



It depends on why you are a paragorn though, Branka, Hirol and Caradin wouldn't be that likely to get political power as they are smiths.

[Bruddajakka]

Since being a Paragon basically makes you a walking ancestor. Sure the one King went against Caradin but that was mostly due to the fact he was a loner who spent all of his time at the Anvil.



Hirol founded his own City so he was basically in control of what happened there, and Branka went off her nut, and led her entire house into the deep roads.



The Son of the Paragon Duran who saved the world from a Blight would be a very potent symbol instead of the son of a "hated" King who turned his back on the long held traditions of the Dwarven people.

[Sarah1281]

Most of a Paragon's power is unofficial. Branka or Caridin can't officially choose who the next King is but the Assembly (or at least Harrowmont's supporters) respect Paragons enough to go along with it. Officially, they can found a house and so are equal to any of the other heads of houses. Politics willing, I could see the Assembly choosing the child of a Paragon over the child of an unpopular King but it's not like the official hierarchy actually places Paragons above Kings.

[Bruddajakka]

Yeah it's a matter of how you look at, and spin it.

[Thrubeingcool13]

Sarah1281 wrote...

PureMethodActor wrote...

@Sarah, so others were wondering about that particular wiki entry as well? Well I haven't looked at epilogues in a while (since gaining most of them nowadays ) but I hope that false entry was removed as well.

Personally, however, I think my Dwarf characters, roleplaying-wise, wouldn't want the throne anyway. Too jaded about everything that happened in Orzammar, happy with being Grey Wardens

If you look at the 'Dwarf Noble Ending Question' thread (or whatever it's called) which is just like the many, many others that have periodically popped up due to either a failure on the part of the search ending or a failure to actually use it, you will find someone has just asked that. Well, they seemed to think that that was true and were only asking if there was another way becoming King could happen but it's the same thing, really. Although admittedly, this was the first time I've seen someone think that the child your DNM can have with Mardy is an heir apparent...

I can see the logic behind the mistake though. If the DN puts Harrowmont on the throne and choose to go back to Orzammar, Harrowmont will reinstate the DN as the Heir to House Aeducan. Not too much of a stretch to misinterpret that as becoming heir to the throne.

[saruman85]

Wow. I fall asleep for 2 days and there are 3 new pages! Who sez the Dwarf Thread's dead?

Sarah: THANK YOU for clearing up that the epilogue DOES NOT have Harrowmont declaring you his heir! I've been trying to convince various fools on the internets of this for a while, but they all say that Harrowmont + Anvil = King of Orzammar. Utter codswallop.

Also, re your titles question: As I understand it (and being British I should. According to my teachers anyway) you're right that Bhelen on throne means you're Prince/Princess. The ruling family can declare titles as they please, which explains why Prince Charles's commoner wife Camilla is a Princess-Consort. But if House Harrowmont is on the throne, you're Lord/Lady Aeducan, as you have no right to a royal title (though sycophants will still call you that anyway). Just read your 'Where's A Disney Death When You Need One?' btw. Funny stuff

PureMethodActor: You HAVEN'T done a DN supporting Harrowmont playthrough? *GASP*

Caak7i: On behalf of unimaginative SW geeks everywhere, I apologise for your imagination. It's the Lucas. It gets to you eventually, then you behave entirely in cliches.

Gorim mod update: I've been playtesting for Karmalade, and she put in a bonus for DC and DN fans - after you find A Letter From Rica, you can ask Gorim about it. He rants on about casteless for a while, but the best comes when you tell him Bhelen has a son:


He BLOWS HIS TOP when he finds out, and you can even conspire with him to steal the throne from little Endrin!


So today Gorim gave me his personal quest. He wants to find one Kobaliman Thaig (name familiar to anyone? I haven't found it anywhere in lore) which is tied into Roshen's backstory. Apparently finding it may mean the Assembly rescinds his exile:




Unfortunately once I got there it turned out to be the standard user-created dungeon - all monsters and very little story. And there were...a LOT of monsters. Created using Awakening In The OC too, so there were Armored Ogres, Disciples etc. This is what became of poor Gorim on his loyalty quest:


And that was the end of that. Still, it's nice having your second fight by you through the whole campaign again. He's even got his combat sounds from the Origin story - hearing "House Aeducan is victorious!" after a battle is a nice change from "I think we work well together" all the time.

[Sarah1281]

Sarah: THANK YOU for clearing up that the epilogue DOES NOT have Harrowmont declaring you his heir! I've been trying to convince various fools on the internets of this for a while, but they all say that Harrowmont + Anvil = King of Orzammar. Utter codswallop.

With the Anvil? Without it, I could understand as then he dies quickly and someone needs to be King/Queen. With it, though, he holds on and oppresses the casteless while letting Branka screw over relations with the Surface and while he really should let someone else have it, he doesn't.

Also, re your titles question: As I understand it (and being British I should. According to my teachers anyway) you're right that Bhelen on throne means you're Prince/Princess. The ruling family can declare titles as they please, which explains why Prince Charles's commoner wife Camilla is a Princess-Consort. But if House Harrowmont is on the throne, you're Lord/Lady Aeducan, as you have no right to a royal title (though sycophants will still call you that anyway). Just read your 'Where's A Disney Death When You Need One?' btw. Funny stuff

Thanks.

[saruman85]

PureMethodActor wrote...
One question, though: are any dialogue options with Gorim as party member just taken from other scenes in the game, or were there extra dialogue in the sound archives that were used as well?

Ah. No, I thought she could have put the Origins dialogue into the game, but she didn't. It's all newly-written (and silent, until she finds a VO artist) dialogue, but she DID use original dialogue in the hiring conversation (which is new) and in his party-select screen (he shouts "Yes!" happily when selected and curses "Aeducan's beard!" when deselected)

It makes you a different player though. My old DN used to be constantly reminded of how much she'd lost, and her past mistakes, whenever she saw and heard Gorim in Denerim. But now that he's right by her, she's a bit more of her arrogant old self again. Removes some of your motivation I guess, because life isn't as bad as it was without Gorim.
So have I convinced you to do a DN playthrough yet?

Sarah1281 wrote...
With the Anvil? Without it, I could understand as then he dies quickly and someone needs to be King/Queen.

Yes I agree - you've told me as much. You're the only living Paragon, Harrowmont loved you, House Ortan/Aeducan/Dace/Saelac/Forender and what-have-you are all potential allies, you carved a path through Bownammar, etc etc - it's very possible you'd be the next king. But yeah, said fools all told me that Harrowmont WITH Anvil meant he made you successor. I thought it was a "secret ending" for the longest time

BTW, how long does it take you to write a chapter? How DO you find the time? I really am curious...

[saruman85]

BTW off-topic rant: GAH! What is WITH all these people starting separate Witch Hunt threads?! There are like TWO threads comparing Shadow Broker to WH on the front page - started within like 2 minutes of each other! Where's Stanley Woo when you need him?

[saruman85]

Eh? But I thought you said you never played a Harrowmont-supporting DN?



*gasp* No. You didn't. You put Bhelen on the throne didn't you? On your first DN playthrough? *sobs* poor Harrowmont. Nevah gets no lovin', that guy.



I agree with you 100% with the origins though - DN followed by City Elf. DN just gives you such a strong motivation to go through the game besides "ooh let's stop the Blight cos um, that's what we do". At one point in Orzammar I forgot I had a Blight to stop until one of the conversation options reminded me.

[Sarah1281]

BTW, how long does it take you to write a chapter? How DO you find the time? I really am curious...

Well my chapters for that are all really long and I get easily distracted so...roughly two days. It takes longer if I'm doing a boring part of the game and so I was able to get my most recent Orzammar chapter done much quicker than usual.