45 réponses à ce sujet

[CarlSpackler]

This is a feature I did not like in any measurable way from ME (and the Witcher for that matter.)  With ME there really weren't too many moments when Shep would speak without our prompting, but each and every time he did it was kind of a jolt that it ultimately wasn't my story.   

[Shepard Lives]

CarlSpackler wrote...


This is a feature I did not like in any measurable way from ME (and the Witcher for that matter.)  With ME there really weren't too many moments when Shep would speak without our prompting, but each and every time he did it was kind of a jolt that it ultimately wasn't my story.   

Hear, hear!

I agree with you 100%. I want Hawke to be a mute unless I want him not to.

[JackFace]

It's possible that Dragon Age may not be the game for you, then, Shep.

[hxx7y]

every time that happend immersion was shattered

[Saibh]

Are you talking about where you'd pick a line of dialogue and Shepard would continue that into a conversation for a line or two more?



I didn't mind that feature--it flowed more naturally, and allowed for an actual conversation based on something you just said, rather than constantly reminding someone of your intent. The way I see it, is that the shortline is the gist of what you'll say, and what you'll say is more than one line.



If it's not there, no skin off my bones. If it is, alright, that makes sense too.

[2papercuts]

hxx7y wrote...

every time that happend immersion was shattered

[EmStar202]

I really, really hope this doesn't happen. And what I think he means Saibh is that Shep just randomally started talking when the wheel option didn't even appear. So you didn't even get to choose any options. Apologies if I'm wrong; I never finished ME.

[Sable Rhapsody]

In DA:O, you would occasionally have instances where there was only one dialogue option. In cases like that, it was exactly the same as Shepard offering an extra line or two. No difference except that one was voiced and one was not.



If the same thing happens in DA2, that's fine. So long as it happens occasionally. I don't want Hawke monologing about, I dunno, yarn colors for five minutes.

[Saibh]

EmStar202 wrote...

I really, really hope this doesn't happen. And what I think he means Saibh is that Shep just randomally started talking when the wheel option didn't even appear. So you didn't even get to choose any options. Apologies if I'm wrong; I never finished ME.

I can't recall Shepard ever doing that. Mmm...actually, no, I seem to remember Shepard talking during the Thane romance scene without my permission.

If that's the case, yeah, I really hate that. What if I want to be pissed he just barged in my room and started ranting about himself? What if I don't want to be comforting?

[Rogue Unit]

Saibh wrote...

EmStar202 wrote...

I really, really hope this doesn't happen. And what I think he means Saibh is that Shep just randomally started talking when the wheel option didn't even appear. So you didn't even get to choose any options. Apologies if I'm wrong; I never finished ME.

I can't recall Shepard ever doing that. Mmm...actually, no, I seem to remember Shepard talking during the Thane romance scene without my permission.

If that's the case, yeah, I really hate that. What if I want to be pissed he just barged in my room and started ranting about himself? What if I don't want to be comforting?

Or like when Shepard tells Miranda "You mean The Illusive man I know you work for Cerberus"

Or when Nessana (SP?) says "Shepard you're dead" and Sheps says "I got better" without the wheel even coming up.

The one I hated the most is when the asari asks if you're going to stop the assassin and Shepard just says "Im just here to make sure he survives."I would have stopped him if I could have. <_

Modifié par Rogue Unit, 23 juillet 2010 - 02:47 .

[Sable Rhapsody]

Saibh wrote...

EmStar202 wrote...

I really, really hope this doesn't happen. And what I think he means Saibh is that Shep just randomally started talking when the wheel option didn't even appear. So you didn't even get to choose any options. Apologies if I'm wrong; I never finished ME.

I can't recall Shepard ever doing that. Mmm...actually, no, I seem to remember Shepard talking during the Thane romance scene without my permission.

If that's the case, yeah, I really hate that. What if I want to be pissed he just barged in my room and started ranting about himself? What if I don't want to be comforting?

What if you want to crush his hopes and dreams, and leave him lamenting and scattered to the four winds?  What if you want to take his feelings for you and burn them to the ground? 

*ahem*

[Saibh]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

Saibh wrote...

EmStar202 wrote...

I really, really hope this doesn't happen. And what I think he means Saibh is that Shep just randomally started talking when the wheel option didn't even appear. So you didn't even get to choose any options. Apologies if I'm wrong; I never finished ME.

I can't recall Shepard ever doing that. Mmm...actually, no, I seem to remember Shepard talking during the Thane romance scene without my permission.

If that's the case, yeah, I really hate that. What if I want to be pissed he just barged in my room and started ranting about himself? What if I don't want to be comforting?

What if you want to crush his hopes and dreams, and leave him lamenting and scattered to the four winds?  What if you want to take his feelings for you and burn them to the ground? 

*ahem*

I take sadistic joy in manipulating that "Oh." out of him when I tell him I don't want to be with a dying man.

Oh, that, and hearing him say he'll "carry me in his heart" and then go flaunt the hell around with Jacob or Garrus.

Sadistic, sadistic joy.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Saibh wrote...

I take sadistic joy in manipulating that "Oh." out of him when I tell him I don't want to be with a dying man.

Oh, that, and hearing him say he'll "carry me in his heart" and then go flaunt the hell around with Jacob or Garrus.

Sadistic, sadistic joy.

...you are my new favorite person 

Anyway, now that you mention it, I do remember that Shepard's occasional extra lines could be a little strange at times.  I think most of them were just filler to bridge conversation gaps, which is fine.  But something like the Thane thing in his final romance scene could be jarring.

[Biserthebomb]

One of the dialogue options should be to not say anything.



Example:::



Flemeth: Come with me, unless you want to wait here and be eaten by darkspawn.

Hawke: (Stays Silent)

Flemeth: What are you waiting for? The entire darkspawn horde will be upon us soon!

Hawke: (Stays Silent)

Flemeth: Your loss. (Turns into a dragon and flys away, you get a game over screen and have to reload.)



And if you whiners don't want to hear Hawke's voice then just turn off the voice volume every time you converse with someone, and you will have your silent protagonist from Dragon Age.

[CarlSpackler]

Biserthebomb wrote...

And if you whiners don't want to hear Hawke's voice then just turn off the voice volume every time you converse with someone, and you will have your silent protagonist from Dragon Age.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread complaining about VO.  The question/issue here is unprompted dialog.  In ME2 there were instanced (cited above by more detailed folk than I) where conversations began and Shep answered or commented without any input from the user.  I (and apparently at least a few others) dislike this immensely.  Also to those who have pointed out that there may be only 1 option, I personally like when the game pauses for me input that option.  Just a preference I like myself, some you likely find it silly, but for me its often the little things that add up to make an amazing gaming experience.

[In Exile]

This was a problem in ME2 moreso than ME, and I think that had to do with a shift in how they saw Shepard as a character. All throughout the ME promotion, it was about your Shepard. Shepard was the character you shaped. The tone shifted for ME2 where they spoke about Shepard as a more defined character.

Personally, I think they did it because it would have otherwise been the ME false choice (where you have the wheel, but you always say the same thing). Except this is a false-dillema because they could have just added a second option.

I agree, though. There is absolutely no reason to have Shepard randomly reply. If you cannot think of any option to put in there but one, as a writer, perhaps the problem is the scene and not the need to remove choice.

[Jonp382]

EmStar202 wrote...

I really, really hope this doesn't happen. And what I think he means Saibh is that Shep just randomally started talking when the wheel option didn't even appear. So you didn't even get to choose any options. Apologies if I'm wrong; I never finished ME.

You are correct. As In Exile wrote it happens a lot in ME2, and that really killed the game for me. It happens in BioWare's other games, but a lot less frequently, and we aren't stuck with Shepard's voice so it is a little better. Still, it's preferable not to have it happen ever.

[David Gaider]

The short answer is yes, but not very often.

For the long answer, I'll give you the run-down of when we permit this:

1) If the line is completely neutral in its tone-- the equivalent of what someone pointed out above, when in DAO you'd have one response option and it was simply designed to drive the conversation forward. Things that anyone could be expected to say in that situation.

2) If you've already selected a tone, on occasion we will initiate an exchange that carries on that tone (generally not more than one extra line). This helps on those occasions where it would be awkward to fit everything the player has to say onto one line.

3) The most common use is when initiating conversation with someone whom you already know, or we know why you're returning there (such as to finish a quest). This one I quite like as it prevents the need to have the NPC start the conversation in all cases and thus skips the beginning rigamarole when it's unnecessary.

Again, it's not very frequent-- our default is to allow the player to have input as often as possible. One of the advantages of player voice, however (and there are indeed some), is the ability to make conversation flow more natural and keep player input for things that matter a bit more than stuff like "What do you mean?"/"I didn't know that."/"Tell me more."

It might also help to know, however, that there are generally variations on these lines when they appear to more reflect the choices you make in determining how your character acts. But I'm sure we'll talk more about exactly what that's about in the future.

Modifié par David Gaider, 23 juillet 2010 - 04:49 .

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Are you suggesting Bioware is turning into Square Enix? I guess we'll see if Hawke will be carrying a 200 pound sword with a foot wide blade and is using enough hair gel to blind a thousand cosmetic lab test rabbits.



Jokes aside, hopefully Bioware won't go that far into the "watch our cgi movie" captive-audience hell that has become the Final Fantasy series for the past decade. I can't seem them going full tilt totalitarian gaming company.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I really dont mind Hawke speaking without being promted and the use of the Dialogue wheel since Hawke isnt our own character, the dialogue wheel has its advantages and disadvantages and in a game like Origins where you can create your own character I dont think it would work but in games like Mass Effect, Alpha Protocol and Dragon Age 2 where you are playing someone elses character it works fine.



The dialogue wheel I dont think is very well suited defining different personalities for your character but it is better for displaying the different moods and approaches of the same personality, take Alpha Protocol for example, you are always playing Micheal Thorton no matter what, the dialogue wheel doesnt allow you to define Micheal's personality but allows you to select his approach within the bounds of the personality the writers have given him, it is the same in Mass Effect and will be the same in Dragon Age 2.



If I was allowed to make my own character in DA2 it might have bothered me that he would blurt out lines I diddnt intend for him to say but since we are playing someone elses character with a set personality it really doesnt bother me, it is just like watching a movie you cant pick what Batman is going to say so why should we be able to do it with Hawke?

[joriandrake]

Biserthebomb wrote...

One of the dialogue options should be to not say anything.

Example:::

Flemeth: Come with me, unless you want to wait here and be eaten by darkspawn.
Hawke: (Stays Silent)
Flemeth: What are you waiting for? The entire darkspawn horde will be upon us soon!
Hawke: (Stays Silent)
Flemeth: Your loss. (Turns into a dragon and flys away, you get a game over screen and have to reload.)

I want!

[joriandrake]

David Gaider wrote...

The short answer is yes, but not very often.

For the long answer, I'll give you the run-down of when we permit this:

1) If the line is completely neutral in its tone-- the equivalent of what someone pointed out above, when in DAO you'd have one response option and it was simply designed to drive the conversation forward. Things that anyone could be expected to say in that situation.

2) If you've already selected a tone, on occasion we will initiate an exchange that carries on that tone (generally not more than one extra line). This helps on those occasions where it would be awkward to fit everything the player has to say onto one line.

3) The most common use is when initiating conversation with someone whom you already know, or we know why you're returning there (such as to finish a quest). This one I quite like as it prevents the need to have the NPC start the conversation in all cases and thus skips the beginning rigamarole when it's unnecessary.

Again, it's not very frequent-- our default is to allow the player to have input as often as possible. One of the advantages of player voice, however (and there are indeed some), is the ability to make conversation flow more natural and keep player input for things that matter a bit more than stuff like "What do you mean?"/"I didn't know that."/"Tell me more."

It might also help to know, however, that there are generally variations on these lines when they appear to more reflect the choices you make in determining how your character acts. But I'm sure we'll talk more about exactly what that's about in the future.

While I don't like that the character will speak without our approval, the idea to carry on with atleast the chosen tone is a good thing

[CalJones]

I didn't find it too intrusive with Shepard (I was more irked by the sleazy "how you doin'?" way FemShep would talk to Jacob...ugh) but it's very noticeable in the Witcher. I realise that Geralt is a well established character and thus not really ours, per se, but still, it's quite annoying.

I hope Hawke is a bit more taciturn.

[AntiChri5]

Here is a good example of how it was handled well in ME 2.



As you enter a certain area with two specific companions with you, a conversation starts up reminiscent of the party banter in DA: O.



Mordin: "Krogan hospital. Sturdy, built to withstand punishment".



Garrus: "Thats a shame, hospitals arent fun to fight through".



Shepard: "What is fun to fight through?"



Garrus: "Gardens, antique stores, electronic shops but only classy ones"



Simple, unobtrusive, a plain neutral question that anyone could think.



This is more than acceptable.

[DaringMoosejaw]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Here is a good example of how it was handled well in ME 2.

As you enter a certain area with two specific companions with you, a conversation starts up reminiscent of the party banter in DA: O.

Mordin: "Krogan hospital. Sturdy, built to withstand punishment".

Garrus: "Thats a shame, hospitals arent fun to fight through".

Shepard: "What is fun to fight through?"

Garrus: "Gardens, antique stores, electronic shops but only classy ones"

Simple, unobtrusive, a plain neutral question that anyone could think.

This is more than acceptable.

That reference always went over my head, to this day I don't know where it was from.