409 réponses à ce sujet

[zahra]

WingsandRings wrote...

Hell Mutant wrote...

Seriously...but would it be a leap to say that most people that don't read this forum aren't going to be as critical? I dunno.

Did you read the comments? They were spewing nerd rage like crazy!

Nerdragestorm. Pocket protectors were being thrown all over the place. Someone misspelled something to stoke the flames. It was quite the sight.

[Marionetten]

FarplaneGuide wrote...

This misinformation seems to be spreading.

www.eurogamer.net/articles/dragon-age-2-dialogue-choice-simplified

They even mention fighting orcs....

Misinformation? It's exactly what BioWare showed the press. Perhaps they ought to have given the dialogue system a better presentation than they did? 

I really have no sympathy. They've been banging on the console drums while completely neglecting their PC audience. Having this bite them in the ass is just hilarious.

Hell Mutant wrote...

Seriously...but would it be a leap to say that most people that don't read this forum aren't going to be as critical? I dunno.

On the contrary, the rest of the gaming community is far more critical of it. A lot have already written Dragon Age 2 off as nothing but consolized trash. I still have some hope. Hope rapidly fading.

Modifié par Marionetten, 24 juillet 2010 - 09:30 .

[Querne]

joriandrake wrote...

same happened about Alpha Protocol, terrible reviews made by people who didn't even play the game turned away many otential costumers because people are dumb enough to trust reviews instead of trying games themself and make an opinion for themself

Yes, of course it much more intelligent to spend 60 $ on something everybody is tearing apart. And If you don´t like it.. Oh, well, yes. You have still spend 60 $. Climax of wisdom.



Altough the article is very uurghs, I wonder why the demo was all about action as Bioware said. 
Demos are supposed to be representative for the game and andvertise important issues. Appearently it was important to show IGN slashing and dialouges were only ornamental art.
That is the point I´m a little bit worried about, because finally it goes in the direction action-oriented flattening.

I can remember, that they made much advertisment for DA: O  with the choices and options..
And now the main point is KABOOM?

Modifié par Querne, 24 juillet 2010 - 09:34 .

[Marionetten]

Querne wrote...

I wonder why the demo was all about action as Bioware said.

Because they are attempting to appeal to the Modern Warfare audience.

Unfortunately, they fail to realize that in doing so they will end up losing large portions of their current audience. Obsidian committed the same mistake with Alpha Protocol. The game was hyped up with Modern Warfare themed trailers until it came out and got slaughtered for being too much of an RPG. Now the franchise is dead.

[Querne]

I tought that finally someone would learn from the failures DeusEx made..

[TheMadCat]

BomimoDK wrote...

As informative and calming as this was. the article and writer sucked, i hat to assume and read through the lines of this cool jock sports journalists nerd-bashing typings to get the info i wanted.

what's he doing previewing DA2 and why is he making casual remarks towards not knowing if what he fought was goblins or orcs? that's weak journalism and should be fired...

See the problem is this. Developers and publishers simply don't hand off demos to an outlet, tell them to write a preview for it, and then completely forget about it until the preview is released and to the public. Typically developers/publishers are hands on, are clarifying aspects, ect, as a sort of damage control to prevent gross errors such as these. Articles are also typically given several run overs to make sure they're not just nonsensical BS before putting it up.

So while IGN certainly has a poor track record, I'm certainly not pinning this all on the writer. EA/BioWare as well as IGN are at fault for this one, someone should have pointed out and clairfied some of this gross simplifications and misconceptions before letting this thing get posted up, if these are indeed gross simplifications and misconceptions to begin with.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 24 juillet 2010 - 09:41 .

[Querne]

So while IGN certainly has a poor track record, I'm certainly not pinning this all on the writer. EA/BioWare as well as IGN are at fault for this one, someone should have pointed out and clairfied some of this gross simplifications and misconceptions before letting this thing get posted up, if these are indeed gross simplifications and misconceptions to begin with.

Besides of this IGN hasn´t made the demo and is not obliged to search through forums to get additional information. If Bio wanted a more comprehansive overview they could have simply installed some scenes not carrying to the conclusion that the game was "dumbed down". So it´s shared responsibility.

[Firky]

TheMadCat wrote...

See the problem is this. Developers and publishers simply don't hand off demos to an outlet, tell them to write a preview for it, and then completely forget about it until the preview is released and to the public. Typically developers/publishers are hands on, are clarifying aspects, ect, as a sort of damage control to prevent gross errors such as these. Articles are also typically given several run overs to make sure they're not just nonsensical BS before putting it up.

How do you know developers and publishers have a hand in what is written in a preview? 

Also, didn't the IGN previewer just see this at Comic Con?

[Aratham Darksight]

Do game publishers really have any sort of veto power over what gets written about their games? Because if they do, then whoever signed off this piece deserves a hefty kick in the rear.



If not, however, then I find it ridiculous to say that EA/Bioware deserve this because "IGN was accurately reporting what the demo showed". IGN's assumption that every dialogue node would only have 3 options is a completely unreasonable one. The existance of a single such node in no way implies that generality. The freaking dialogue wheel itself has 6 spaces!



It would seem that IGN didn't bother to actually ask and confirm their assumption, since the Bioware staff running the demo would presumably know that it's not true. So unless EA really has the power to tell IGN "no, you can't publish that about our game", I don't see what else could have been done on their side to prevent this.

[wicked_being]

I think the only solution is to show the demo to everyone (I really wanna see it so bad!)

[elearon1]

I couldn't get too excited about this article, since it was focused on the Console version and we know that the combat will be different on Console than PC.



>>They've been banging on the console drums while completely neglecting their PC audience. <<



I wouldn't go that far, but it would be nice to see an article that addresses what - if any- changes they've made to varied aspects of the PC game. Mind you, if such an article would be written, I'd want someone who actually had a clue to write it rather than the guys from IGN.

[Hell Mutant]

zahra wrote...

WingsandRings wrote...

Hell Mutant wrote...

Seriously...but would it be a leap to say that most people that don't read this forum aren't going to be as critical? I dunno.

Did you read the comments? They were spewing nerd rage like crazy!

Nerdragestorm. Pocket protectors were being thrown all over the place. Someone misspelled something to stoke the flames. It was quite the sight.

I guess you're right, pretty much ALL the comments on any article that I see about DA2 are negative. I guess I just dismissed them and forgot about the comments since most of them are so flippant and simple minded.

[deleterguy]

Great succes, more console bashing..

Hey you guys, not all console players are retarded 12 year old.

[deleterguy]

Great succes, more console bashing..

Hey you guys, not all console players are retarded 12 year old.

[FarplaneGuide]

Marionetten wrote...

Misinformation? It's exactly what BioWare showed the press. Perhaps they ought to have given the dialogue system a better presentation than they did?

Maybe but unless someone told the press there will be only three choices the writer of ign article made an
assumption and presented it as a fact.

[ShakeZoohla]

Aratham Darksight wrote...

Do game publishers really have any sort of veto power over what gets written about their games? Because if they do, then whoever signed off this piece deserves a hefty kick in the rear.

If not, however, then I find it ridiculous to say that EA/Bioware deserve this because "IGN was accurately reporting what the demo showed". IGN's assumption that every dialogue node would only have 3 options is a completely unreasonable one. The existance of a single such node in no way implies that generality. The freaking dialogue wheel itself has 6 spaces!

It would seem that IGN didn't bother to actually ask and confirm their assumption, since the Bioware staff running the demo would presumably know that it's not true. So unless EA really has the power to tell IGN "no, you can't publish that about our game", I don't see what else could have been done on their side to prevent this.

It's freedom of speech.  Bioware showed it, and journalists wrote about it.

[Kastlefeer]

About this admission that DA:O was not the best looking game, honestly it wasn't that bad. The environments were consistant and nicely detailed there was some problems with a few low rez textures not sure if that was a bug or oversight. Some of the leather helmets were fugly, there was a lack of variety in leather armor in general. Two handed maces looked a bit silly. Sometimes some of the weapon animations seemed a bit off. These are things that could be tweaked. I'm not a fan of having a wholely new art approach... granted maybe there was some issue... I was pissed about awakenings items looking so nice but things like massacre having no animation. That's not an art issue, that's the work wasn't done but you still released the product... but we'll have to wait and see what the pc coverage looks like.

[TheMadCat]

Firky wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

See the problem is this. Developers and publishers simply don't hand off demos to an outlet, tell them to write a preview for it, and then completely forget about it until the preview is released and to the public. Typically developers/publishers are hands on, are clarifying aspects, ect, as a sort of damage control to prevent gross errors such as these. Articles are also typically given several run overs to make sure they're not just nonsensical BS before putting it up.

How do you know developers and publishers have a hand in what is written in a preview?

Never said they have a hand in actually writing the preview, what I said was they don't simply hand off a copy and forget about it. Typically the writer plays the game in the company of a developer or two as well as a couple of other reps from the publishers to help explain things, expand upon features, and similar things. Demos are incredibly small and compact and it's easy for a writer to make inncorect assumptions so the developers and publishers do what they can to explain it in detail as the writer experiences it.

Also, didn't the IGN previewer just see this at Comic Con?

Given this comment in the article,

During our play session,

I'm assuming they were given an actual demo to play.

[WingsandRings]

ShakeZoohla wrote...

Aratham Darksight wrote...

Do game publishers really have any sort of veto power over what gets written about their games? Because if they do, then whoever signed off this piece deserves a hefty kick in the rear.

If not, however, then I find it ridiculous to say that EA/Bioware deserve this because "IGN was accurately reporting what the demo showed". IGN's assumption that every dialogue node would only have 3 options is a completely unreasonable one. The existance of a single such node in no way implies that generality. The freaking dialogue wheel itself has 6 spaces!

It would seem that IGN didn't bother to actually ask and confirm their assumption, since the Bioware staff running the demo would presumably know that it's not true. So unless EA really has the power to tell IGN "no, you can't publish that about our game", I don't see what else could have been done on their side to prevent this.

It's freedom of speech.  Bioware showed it, and journalists wrote about it.

Nerdrage:

That is NOT what "freedom of speech" means!!! Freedom of speech refers to your right to not be imprisoned for voicing an opinion or idea that may be offensive, hurtful, or otherwise disliked by others, including the government.

I don't know what this article was, but FREE SPEECH did not come into play, dammit, unless Bioware was threatening to prosecute the author.

Doesn't anyone take a frigging civics class in high school anymore?  If I hear one more person misuse the term "free speech," I'm throwing pocket protectors.

Modifié par WingsandRings, 24 juillet 2010 - 06:03 .

[Lintanis]

 just a quick point about anyone worrying about what the lead platform is, there isnt one, quote from Mike Laidlaw on link 

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/3149188/13#3225261

[Firky]

TheMadCat wrote...

Firky wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

See the problem is this. Developers and publishers simply don't hand off demos to an outlet, tell them to write a preview for it, and then completely forget about it until the preview is released and to the public. Typically developers/publishers are hands on, are clarifying aspects, ect, as a sort of damage control to prevent gross errors such as these. Articles are also typically given several run overs to make sure they're not just nonsensical BS before putting it up.

How do you know developers and publishers have a hand in what is written in a preview?

Never said they have a hand in actually writing the preview, what I said was they don't simply hand off a copy and forget about it. Typically the writer plays the game in the company of a developer or two as well as a couple of other reps from the publishers to help explain things, expand upon features, and similar things. Demos are incredibly small and compact and it's easy for a writer to make inncorect assumptions so the developers and publishers do what they can to explain it in detail as the writer experiences it.

But do you know that that is the process or is this an assumption? It's an interesting question and I think it's quite relevant to this discussion.

Apart from frustration that a previewer accidentally made some kind of obvious error, I can't think of another reason why developers/publishers would want to have any other input into a preview. Do gamers want to read a preview that they think developers/publishers have influenced? Personally, I'd rather read a preview that mistakes darkspawn for orcs and know that the previewer's impression is genuine than it reading like an advertisement for DA2. Having said that, hopefully the previewer would have enough experience of the game/genre to question and correct major errors before submitting their article.

If anyone has proof that this is the way things are "typically" done, I'd be really interested to hear it. My experience of writing previews is actually the exact opposite - but one person's experience is one person's experience, of course. In my experience, you do just get a demo and never hear back from the developer/publisher. There is no pressure to write anything except your honest impression of whatever demo, interview, hands on, preview code you are given.

[jaikss]

Top quality article imo,cant really decide which exactly was my favorite part though,the little bit about the author trying to quess what the darkspawn were (goblins,orcs,imps or demons,tough call)or the fact that during the whole article he did not manage to type out the main characters name correctly .

[joriandrake]

deleterguy wrote...

Great succes, more console bashing..
Hey you guys, not all console players are retarded 12 year old.

who implied it otherwise?

[Rubbish Hero]

deleterguy wrote...

Great succes, more console bashing..
Hey you guys, not all console players are retarded 12 year old.

The problem is, developers seem to think they are.

[UndercoverDoctor]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

deleterguy wrote...

Great succes, more console bashing..
Hey you guys, not all console players are retarded 12 year old.

The problem is, developers seem to think they are.

The sad truth.