17 réponses à ce sujet

[tommyt_1994]

So im going to be starting my Widow/Vindicator/Evi soldier soon and i'd like your guys' and gals' opinions on which ammo set up would be best for this type of soldier. Yes, I know the word best and optimal will more than likely lead to some "there is not best, its all up to you comments". I am aware that there is no defined best, im just looking for opinions here.

Lots of people, and this is what im leaning toward, choose squad incendiary, squad disruptor, and Tungsten ammo for this build. The reasoning behind this is to maximize your squads damage out put with the 2 squad ammo's, while shepard uses Tungsten and AR to get the most out of every Widow shot/Vindi burst/ Evi blast.

But my question is, do you think that taking the Infero/Heavy disruptor/squad cryo route would benefit this type of soldier more? With each widow shot I would be dealing 10% less damage per shot against armor when using infero insated of tungsten, but does anyone think that that be noticeable at anytime during the game? Would that 10% difference mean I would 4 shot scions instaed of the regular 3 shots with tungsten? Inferno ammo would give me the panic CC advantage when using my Assault rifle and shotgun, but do you think it will every really be noticed? Will the upgraded Vindicator still kill an average mook with 2 bursts under AR like it does with Tungsten? This ammo set up would also help me pack more of a punch against shields and synthetics with Heavy Disruptor and it would also allow me to give my squad cryo ammo which could give the soldier some much needed CC.

Thanks for any thought you guys and gals can contribute. It would be really helpful to hear some more opinions on this particular topic.

Note: I will be using heightened AR with this soldier and I will be playing on insanity for all that matters.

Modifié par tommyt_1994, 23 juillet 2010 - 07:10 .

[MarshalMeLee]

If you are set on using AP Ammo as your bonus power (which I personally would not choose), Tungsten would be better for you than Inferno. This is because you will choose the Widow, which means you are ideally looking for 1-shots against opponents. Inferno is better for A-Rs or guns that take multiple hits to bring down the enemy. Which would you use more? I'd say the Widow, since that is what you will choose to upgrade, and hence, Tungsten is the better of two options.

Honestly though, AP---> Tungsten is not that much better than Inferno, I'd pick any variety of other bonus powers...but that's just me.

On my own Soldier, I basically just used Inferno for everything, with Squad Cryo thrown in. I barely used Disruptor at all, and avoided the powers menu like the plague (or if the crap hits the fan).

Modifié par MarshalMeLee, 23 juillet 2010 - 09:17 .

[Kronner]

Tungsten ammo is worse than Inferno. It does SLIGHTLY nore damage, but Inferno causes panic for organics. You will not be able to tell the damage difference anyways. Just get Inferno for yourself and Cryo for your squad. As a Soldier you will kill 9 out of 10 enemies anyways.

[Tlazolteotl]

Putting either tungsten or inferno on the widow is a bit of a waste ... against targets with no defense, it'll one-shot them anyway .. making the ammo only contribute vs. tough targets such as scions or krogans.

I'd put disruptor on the widow, cryo on eviscerator/carnifex, and incendiary on the vindicator.

Making light use of disruptor, keeping it at 2, just for a little extra punch vs. shielded targets. Squad cryo and inferno.

Of course, it's all theorycrafting right now, since I don't actually have a widow soldier. My soldier uses a revenant.

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

I'd stick with Inferno ammo and choose another bonus power. General consensus is in terms of damage output the difference between Inferno and Tungsten ammo is barely noticeable in practice.



Squad cryo for your teammates. Uncontested crowd control. I wouldn't invest too much on disrupter ammo, which is mostly useful against geth - you're fighting Collectors and mercs 90% of the game, so...

[Kronner]

..not to mention Cryo is probably even better than disruptor against geth anyways.

[JaegerBane]

If you're going for Cryo, take Squad version. It's an all-or-nothing choice, as it's previous versions are a bit underwhelming.

Inferno and Heavy Disruptor set you up for virtually the whole game. Yeah, Barriers, you'll have to rely on either Concussive (which isn't ideal) or your weapon's brute force, but hey, the Soldier has that to spare.

I've never honestly seen the point behind Tungsten. If you're going to take an ammo as bonus, take Warp Ammo. It's by far the most versatile ammo in the game and is death on Collectors. Fighting a Praetorian with a Warp'd Revenant is downright trivial.

[Kronner]

JaegerBane wrote...

....

take Warp Ammo. It's by far the most versatile ammo in the game and is death on Collectors. Fighting a Praetorian with a Warp'd Revenant is downright trivial.

Yes, but for some Warp ammo on a Soldier does not make sense at all. (RP reasons)
Not to mention, Warp is still worse than Inferno for general use anyways.

Modifié par Kronner, 23 juillet 2010 - 02:21 .

[JaegerBane]

Kronner wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

....

take Warp Ammo. It's by far the most versatile ammo in the game and is death on Collectors. Fighting a Praetorian with a Warp'd Revenant is downright trivial.

Yes, but for some Warp ammo on a Soldier does not make sense at all. (RP reasons)

Agreed - for what it's worth, I don't really think Soldiers are all that well served by having an ammo bonus power. But if they *have* to, Warp is the best choice.

Not to mention, Warp is still worse than Inferno for general use anyways.

Hmmm. For soldiers, I'd agree. For biotic classes.... not so sure. That 100% damage boost plus punching through barriers mounts up pretty quickly.

[Prismo]

Personally I would go with Inferno, Heavy or Squad Disruptor (depending on whether you want to take Zaeed) and Heavy Warp as your bonus. My reasoning for Inferno over Tungsten is that for the 10% less damage you get great organic CC with the same AOE range as Incineration Blast. As for warp ammo, personally I think that anytime a soldier is not using their cooldown for Adrenaline Rush they are wasting their cooldown, so naturally I favour ammo bonus powers and warp provides the soldier with the only tool they are missing, anti-barrier.

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

Why is lvl 4 disruptor ammo so heavily recommended? It's only good against shields - the overheating weapons ability has been relatively transparent to me. On the other hand, squad cryo ammo made my insanity playthrough a joke - you just have to strip an enemy's defense and then you can literally forget about them.

Essentially, I found that squad cryo removes the entire layer of health, rendering it a non-issue.

EDIT: Another vote goes to Warp ammo as a bonus power. Personally, I like to equip the Widow with Heavy Warp ammo and the rest of the squad with cryo ammo. For the AR/SMG, I'll switch up between Warp and Disruptor to deal with shields/barriers, but I'll be looking for that Widow one-shot 90% of the time anyway.

Modifié par V0luS_R0cKs7aR, 23 juillet 2010 - 05:07 .

[JaegerBane]

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

Why is lvl 4 disruptor ammo so heavily recommended? It's only good against shields - the overheating weapons ability has been relatively transparent to me. On the other hand, squad cryo ammo made my insanity playthrough a joke - you just have to strip an enemy's defense and then you can literally forget about them.

To be fair, both Cryo and Disruptor provide means of crowd control. The difference is that Disruptor helps the Soldier deal with a defence, whereas Cryo helps the soldier quickly finish off enemies. It's a matter of taste in the end.

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

I get that, but I still don't understand how people can recommend non-squad Level 4 versions of cryo/disruptor ammo, *especially* for crowd control. From my personal experience (emphasis on *mine*) I found that disruptor and cryo are best used with/by the rest of your squad precisely because of their CC ability. Multiple members of your squad shooting crowd-controlling ammo is much more effective at controlling the crowd than you shooting CC ammo (even at Level 4) alone.



For example, since the base damage output of the squad is 65% of Shepherd's, I usually am the dominant damage dealer on my team, and thus my weapons would be equipped with Lvl 4 Tungsten, Heavy Warp or Inferno ammo.



Furthermore, as the CC abilities of the ammo powers is not subject to the 65% damage nerf, I give my squad mates cryo/disrupter. Thus, I would try to maximize the damage of all my weapons for killing while assigning CC/defense-stripping support roles to my other teammates.



BTW, if I had to choose between disruptor and cryo, I would choose cryo, every time. It's that good as a means of CC.

[Kronner]

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

BTW, if I had to choose between disruptor and cryo, I would choose cryo, every time. It's that good as a means of CC.

I agree. Disruptor seems redundant. It is only good against the geth, but Cryo is at least equal.
Against standard mercs, Inferno is much better than Disruptor, CC is better than extra shield damage.

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

Yeah, I actually prefer squad incendiary against standard mercs, but that never happens because I like the Level 4 Inferno ammo with its +60% damage for my Vanguard/Soldier.

The only situation when I think disruptor ammo is better squad cryo is when I'm playing as Infiltrator fighting Geth - then I'd pull out the SMG+disruptor, quickly strip the shield layer and immediately AI hack. And hack and hack and hack, as the Geth fight each other and lose their shields. I might as well not even be there.

In all other instances cryo ammo is vastly superior.    

Modifié par V0luS_R0cKs7aR, 23 juillet 2010 - 08:02 .

[ezrafetch]

I run Squad Disruptor, Squad Warp/Cryo (depending on playing "pureblood" or not), and Inferno. Since I don't care too much with the "pureblood" approach I usually just take Warp Ammo. Squad Disruptor for heavy Geth and missions where I find a load of shields, and Warp Ammo for all other missions. It's worked well for me. Since I don't really bother with switching Ammo powers mid-battle, unless it's a heavy Geth mission, I always just set the Squad Ammo that works best for the mission, then stick Inferno Ammo on all of my guns and just go. Your squadmates therefore can help you strip some defense and you can use the Inferno Ammo to good effect.



With a Widow Soldier you're going to run into issues with running Cryo Ammo, which is why I try not to use it. If you're going to be sniping a whole bunch, your enemies are more likely to be frozen lying on the ground rather than standing up frozen...which means you can't snipe them...which is problematic. It's hard to run into this problem with CQC Infiltrators and Vanguards who can make use of Squad Cryo Ammo because lying down or standing up hardly makes a difference when your range of combat is close quarters.

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

My most played class is a Widow-wielding Infiltrator, using Heavy Warp ammo myself but giving my squad Cryo ammo. I go exclusively for one-shot kills, precisely because I don't have to worry about frozen targets toppling over.



So, I'll run through my experience with squad cryo ammo and the my Widow. If the target IS frozen, I just completely forget about them and switch to the next target - your squad mates will rip them apart, either when they're on the ground still frozen, or when they get back up (to be frozen again). If I snipe something with my Widow and it doesn't die, then it's almost certainly down to health. Still, I can ALSO forget about them, because within two seconds it's gonna be frozen by my squaddies using cryo ammo.



Personally, I think this is awesome, and this level of CC is unmatched with any other type of squad ammo. Even on Insanity, I can literally just shoot and forget, as the only two possible outcomes for my target after a Widow shot is death (from my Widow) or being frozen (by my squaddies) then death.



This doesn't even take into account powers yet. Using Reave, Warp, Incinerate, etc. with squad cryo literally means that any enemy taken down to their health bar is either frozen or dead.

[ajburges]

Keep in mind people this is for a long range soldier.

With the monster damage from AR the widow is for 1 shot kills on mooks and mooks+1 (And finishing elites when their armor is at 1/4-1/3). I those guys have any damage ignore them for fresher or more threatening targets. The level 3 disruptor ammo ensures that even without upgrades you can do this on non-bionics. Warp ammo may or may not broaden the selection of collector OHK's but its bonus is almost always applied and since the widow is a OHK/Boss weapon it needs no CC ability. Juggle the ammo for this between disruptor and warp as appropriate (Incendiary is to be used only on enemies without a health bar)

Vindicator is to be used mid range and to strip shields and barriers. Inferno and Disruptor are good for CC. The other approach is to juggle Warp and Disruptor for optimal defense striping.

For shotguns Inferno is king.

Squad Cryo works OK with how I advocate widow usage



My preferred load out is:

Heavy Warp, Squad Disruptor, Squad Incendiary (set squad to maximize CC)



I also entertain:

3 Disruptor, 2 incendiary (prereq), Squad Cryo, Heavy Warp

Squad Disruptor, Squad Incendiary, Max Grenade



BTW: do squad mate ammo damage suffer from the squad mate weapon damage reduction? If not there may be more of an advantage to squad ammo powers than previously thought since they would be twice as strong for squad mates.