165 réponses à ce sujet

[Cra5y Pineapple]

LOL you flamed the VI? What's wrong with HUMOUR? It's just a joke ffs. Get a sense of humour for once.

And EDI couldn't just hack David because there would be a short play time with little to do. Games are about Gameplay. Not Plots.

[wulf3n]

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...
Games are about Gameplay. Not Plots.

Just the sought of quote that makes me weep for the future of gaming.

edit: is that the correct use of sought? ... or should i have used sort? 

Modifié par wulf3n, 24 juillet 2010 - 01:37 .

[Kroesis-]

wulf3n wrote...

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...
Games are about Gameplay. Not Plots.

Just the sought of quote that makes me weep for the future of gaming.

With you on that.

[InvaderErl]

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...

And EDI couldn't just hack David because there would be a short play time with little to do.

I got the impression that there was something about the Human/AI combination that made it simply too much for another AI to hack/resist. I mean he did take over the Geth network after all. I guess its like EDI not piloting the Normandy because she can't account for human unpredictability.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 24 juillet 2010 - 01:40 .

[Lucky Thirteen]

I sometimes wonder, if for ME2, Bioware just re-released ME1, only updated the system a little, fix the loading thing, made Tali and Garrus a romance, and then just renamed Saren. This would make these few fans happy that despise ME2 so much. Just a re-released ME1, almost exactly the same.

[wulf3n]

Lucky Thirteen wrote...

I sometimes wonder, if for ME2, Bioware just re-released ME1, only updated the system a little, fix the loading thing, made Tali and Garrus a romance, and then just renamed Saren. This would make these few fans happy that despise ME2 so much. Just a re-released ME1, almost exactly the same.

no, what we fans who apparently "despised" ME2 wanted was a game that rivaled the originals quality, in ALL aspects. Yeah, bioware improved the gameplay, but seem to have forgotten what made ME1 so great

Modifié par wulf3n, 24 juillet 2010 - 01:51 .

[Il Divo]

wulf3n wrote...

no, what we fans who apparently "despised" ME2 wanted was a game that rivaled the originals quality, in ALL aspects. Yeah, bioware improved the gameplay, but the plot...

And yet, the game on the whole improved far more than it ruined compared to Mass Effect between the gameplay, characters, more in-depth side missions, etc. The main quest is rather lackluster: "recruit a team", but so was Episode V's plot yet in retrsopect it's remembered as the greatest of the Star Wars films.

Modifié par Il Divo, 24 juillet 2010 - 01:54 .

[InvaderErl]

Lucky Thirteen wrote...

I sometimes wonder, if for ME2, Bioware just re-released ME1, only updated the system a little, fix the loading thing, made Tali and Garrus a romance, and then just renamed Saren. This would make these few fans happy that despise ME2 so much. Just a re-released ME1, almost exactly the same.

There would be complaints about how much they screwed it up and how different everything is now and how NotSaren could never compare to Saren.

[ThisIsMadness91]

wulf3n wrote...

Cra5y Pineapple wrote...
Games are about Gameplay. Not Plots.

Just the sought of quote that makes me weep for the future of gaming.

edit: is that the correct use of sought? ... or should i have used sort? 

Sort. And yes, it bugs me when people suggest that games should focus purely on gameplay and not at all on plot.

Modifié par ThisIsMadness91, 24 juillet 2010 - 02:01 .

[Christmas Ape]

To be fair, gameplay over plot never did anything for anyone.

Oh, wait. Except for the entire first decade of video games, establishing the medium as a viable business.

[wulf3n]

Christmas Ape wrote...
To be fair, gameplay over plot never did anything for anyone.
Oh, wait. Except for the entire first decade of video games, establishing the medium as a viable business.

That was more a limitation than a design decision.

edit: and if you wanna keep playing pong, or space invaders thats fine. Some of us though recognize the potential of the industry and expect more.

Modifié par wulf3n, 24 juillet 2010 - 02:07 .

[Kroesis-]

Christmas Ape wrote...

To be fair, gameplay over plot never did anything for anyone.
Oh, wait. Except for the entire first decade of video games, establishing the medium as a viable business.

Established medium evolved

[Nhani]

wulf3n wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...
To be fair, gameplay over plot never did anything for anyone.
Oh, wait. Except for the entire first decade of video games, establishing the medium as a viable business.

That was more a limitation than a design decision.

edit: and if you wanna keep playing pong, or space invaders thats fine. Some of us though recognize the potential of the industry and expect more.

Actually, if I may.. I'd suggest a comparisson to games today in terms of Story versus Gameplay, it might be more resonable to compare it to pen and paper RPGs or tabletop wargames, as they have some degree of similarity and wasn't as limited by technology. We have systems that evolved out of mechanics, systems that evolved out of narrative, and a large variety of groups that preferred one or the other.

As an aside to this, just a day ago I was reading a thread regarding the introduction of the Clans to Battletech (if this doesn't ring a bell for you, that's fine ), in regards to how they were to face. It was really interesting to see the different reactions between people who had played with groups where the Clans had been introduced along with their narrative, making use of the clanner concept of Honor in Combat versus groups where they'd just been put in and their vastly superior technology was exploited way beyond mere munchkinism.

Anyhow, I digress.

[mosor]

Il Divo wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

no, what we fans who apparently "despised" ME2 wanted was a game that rivaled the originals quality, in ALL aspects. Yeah, bioware improved the gameplay, but the plot...

And yet, the game on the whole improved far more than it ruined compared to Mass Effect between the gameplay, characters, more in-depth side missions, etc. The main quest is rather lackluster: "recruit a team", but so was Episode V's plot yet in retrsopect it's remembered as the greatest of the Star Wars films.

The writing in star wars is pretty terrible. Episode 5 was the best written of a generally poorly written series. The only things that made star wars great were special effects, Han Solo, Jedi, and Stormtroopers.

[Nhani]

mosor wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

wulf3n wrote...
no, what we fans who apparently "despised" ME2 wanted was a game that rivaled the originals quality, in ALL aspects. Yeah, bioware improved the gameplay, but the plot...

And yet, the game on the whole improved far more than it ruined compared to Mass Effect between the gameplay, characters, more in-depth side missions, etc. The main quest is rather lackluster: "recruit a team", but so was Episode V's plot yet in retrsopect it's remembered as the greatest of the Star Wars films.

The writing in star wars is pretty terrible. Episode 5 was the best written of a generally poorly written series. The only things that made star wars great were special effects, Han Solo, Jedi, and Stormtroopers.

Funny aside: one of the most memorable quotes in episode 5 ("I love you" / "I know") wasn't scripted so much as the reply was an improv by Harrison Ford after the scripted lines didn't really create the desired effect.

As a further aside, part of what made Star Wars episode 4 - 6 good was actually it channeling the archetypal Hero Journey - George Lucas succeeded quite well in channeling it far beyond the script itself. Strangely enough, he seemed like he'd forgotten all of that for the prequel series.. but I digress.

[Jigero]

Yep your really sticking it to Bioware, "I really hated Mass Effect 2, but I'm gonna spend money on the DLC and hope it's better!" fantastic logic.

[Jigero]

Kroesis- wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

To be fair, gameplay over plot never did anything for anyone.
Oh, wait. Except for the entire first decade of video games, establishing the medium as a viable business.

Established medium evolved

Because no one bought Super Mario Galexy 1 & 2 right?

Modifié par Jigero, 24 juillet 2010 - 03:05 .

[Kroesis-]

Jigero wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

To be fair, gameplay over plot never did anything for anyone.
Oh, wait. Except for the entire first decade of video games, establishing the medium as a viable business.

Established medium evolved

Because no one bought Super Mario Galexy 1 & 2 right?

And you can compare all games released in the last 5-10 years to Super Mario Galaxy? I didn't say that there weren't retail games which still held the throwback of gameplay above plot but most have some form of plot to drive the gameplay. Of course you have to consider genre as well but even games such as racers have had plots, for better or worse.

[Nhani]

Jigero wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...
Established medium evolved

Because no one bought Super Mario Galexy 1 & 2 right?

Actually, to continue my current track of launching small tidbits of trivia.. Yahtzee recently expressed something regarding those very games and the concept of games evolving I thought was quite interesting. The particular snippet I'm thinking of quoted below.

but with Mario, their flagship franchise, the main platforming series (Super Mario Bros 1, 3, Super Mario World, Yoshi's Island, 64, Sunshine and Galaxy) has always made some kind of significant evolution with each installment. Yeah, they often have similar themes and similar plots (only Yoshi's Island doesn't feature the princess being kidnapped on account of her being an embryo at the time), but the gameplay is always significantly tweaked, whether it be by space travel or a water pistol.

So Mario has indeed evolved, but down a different path. At the end of the day, comparing the evolution of action RPgs with that of action platformers strikes me a little like trying to compare the post-Asimov evolution of Science fiction litterature to the post-Steven Seagal evolution of action movies.

At the end of the day, narrative and presentation have gained a much higher importance - especially in AAA titles - today, which I believe is the entire point being made.

[ShamieGTX]

Jigero wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

To be fair, gameplay over plot never did anything for anyone.
Oh, wait. Except for the entire first decade of video games, establishing the medium as a viable business.

Established medium evolved

Because no one bought Super Mario Galexy 1 & 2 right?

Who bought a Wii??

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

ShamieGTX wrote...

Jigero wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

To be fair, gameplay over plot never did anything for anyone.
Oh, wait. Except for the entire first decade of video games, establishing the medium as a viable business.

Established medium evolved

Because no one bought Super Mario Galexy 1 & 2 right?

Who bought a Wii??

People say the Wii is the best of the three consoles, because it's the most family oriented. I disagree, I have an Xbox and it's just better than a Wii in every way.