38 réponses à ce sujet

[DWSmiley]

Yrkoon wrote...

beancounter501 wrote...


Dodge is calculated before the hit roll. So a 20% dodge means 1 in 5 attacks will miss no matter what. .

Aaah.  That's good to know. 

So a power gamer's alternative answer to this thread is to Boost Cunning all the way, then try to  equip as many +dodge and +attack  items as possible to make up for  his crappy defense and attack!

There's no gear that boosts dodge and attack, unfortunately.  But my max cunning rogue has bettter defense than I expected - 109 with the Felon's Coat, 119 when I get keen defense, which is decent.

@beancounter - I thought I read somewhere that it's a rolling average, so the oldest data rolls out eventually but maybe not.  My hit rate was 72% out of Lothering so that will take some overcoming!

Modifié par DWSmiley, 25 juillet 2010 - 05:35 .

[Siven80]

I personally do a 2:1 (Dex:Cun) split with my rogues nowadays while leaving Str at 20 (cun to min of 40). I find it gives the best of both builds with none of the negatives.

Loss of DPS vs a full cun rogue? pah not as much as you'd expect really while gaining better attack rating and defense and can stand on his own vs 2 white mobs easy enuogh when needed too.



But then it something ive done with all my new chars and companions in my new set of saves. Which includes Con instead of dex after 26/30 on my S/S warrior (Why waste stat pts by selecting more dex when white mobs hit me for 1 with such a high armor score anyway (When they dont miss) and the extra con soaks up any hard hits. perfect).

[soteria]

One reason I prefer the higher cunning build is that I'd rather "waste" points getting Lethality than I would Device Mastery. But yeah, I avoid both extremes. High dex has more attack/defense than it needs, and high cunning doesn't have enough. The nice thing about rogue builds is you don't really get penalized for raising both.

[beancounter501]

@Smiley - Spellward gives + 10 Dodge. Cailens Armor Gives +20 Dodge. Evon the Great gives +10 dodge. Evasion gives + 25Dodge. So Spell Ward + Cailens + Evasion gives 55% Dodge. End result will give you an Armor of 36, +15% Crit Dmg, +5 Health Regen and dodge of 55%. All for the low price of 14 fatigue. The fatigue will drop to 11.5 if you take Dual Weld Mastery. Throw in Lifeward Ring and you have one Rogue that is not even remotely squishy.



If you are not going a strength Rogue then Spell Ward + Evasion is the best you can get.



BTW, the top tier light armor setup most people say to use: Felon's Coat, Red Jenny Seekers, Cadash Stompers & Helm of Honnealth gives an armor of 23 and fatigue of 7.5. Not a big difference Fatigue wise.



Still, not seeing the love for cunning. Putting 40 points of cunning and Assassin will give you:



Exploit Weakness: 40 * .1746 = 7 points of dmg. Backstab only.



I really don't think 7 points of dmg on a backstab is worth giving up 20 attack, 40 defense and 20 Physical Resistance. Not to mention you have to take either Bard or Assassin to see ANY damage increase at all. Unless you want to use Tainted Suicide.











@Soteria

[DWSmiley]

+40 points in cunning also gets you about +6 in armor penetration.  Factor in that one can wear the best light armor, including Cadash Stompers, putting 0 points in str and it appeals to me to avoid the redundancy of putting points in both.

Certainly there is no point in a cunning ranger/duelist.  I sorta wimped out going duelist/bard but I was worried about surviving the Fade and the proving grounds.  And assuming +40 cunning, that's three of us getting +7 attack, +4 damage and +7% critical chance from SoC.

That said, I was tongue in cheek about wasting points in str.  No argument that's a very durable and useful build.  But with no tank and no baby-sitting my cunning rogue has had few injuries and achieved excellent attack and decent defense ratings.  It boils down to there is no one best build for rogues, unlike the other two classes.

Edit:  I was also going to boast about superior mental resistance but then I checked what that is good for and, um...no.

Modifié par DWSmiley, 26 juillet 2010 - 06:10 .

[beancounter501]

I forgot about the armor penetration so that is a plus. The Bard bonus sounds good, but you have to look at the incremental gains you are getting from that cunning. You can get a 21 or 22 cunning score straight from race+class+fade bonus. With a 20 cunning your SoC gives you +4 Attack, +4 Crit and +2.5 damage. That does not cost you anything other the stamina/fatigue/talent.



After the inital bonus SoC gives the following bonus for every 10 points of cunning:

+1 Attack

+1 Crit Chance

+.05 Dmg



But it costs you

-5 Attack

-10 Defense

-5 Physical Resistance



I would argue that you are better off trying to raise cunning to a low score like 30 counting Fade + Gear. Cunning Bonus from gear has very little drawback. Maybe equip a ton of gear that boosts cunning cast SoC and then switch back to your normal gear.



And yhea, the Mental Resistance is pretty, uhh nice? Too bad hardly anything has a mental reistance save.

[Last Darkness]

They are both good, in differant ways. Its been pretty well explained from multiple angles. Too many people arguing one is better then the other though. Both will achieve same goal, you can beat the game just fine with them. Personal opionion though Dex allows more freedom in character spec while cunning if you wanna maximise locks you pretty much into a Assassin/Bard character.

[beancounter501]

^^ Very true. I think Bioware did a very good job balancing the Rogue. You can go str, dex, cunning, dex/cunning or even str/dex. Lots of combos, all pretty competive. A lot comes down to your personal perference. Much more interesting then a mage or warrior where you have a whole lot less competive builds stat wise. Like a dex 2 Hand Warrior. That is asking for a world of pain!

I really hope when we go to DA2 some of the weaker stats like willpower and con get a nice boost.

Character building is a lot more simpler then it should be.  Plus, I hope different stats can give very different advantages.

Modifié par beancounter501, 27 juillet 2010 - 03:29 .

[Last Darkness]

beancounter501 wrote...

 Like a dex 2 Hand Warrior. That is asking for a world of pain!

Lol that would be one very big dagger my friend.

[beancounter501]

Doing some more theory crafting here, but how about making a Cun build that could run Tainted Blade almost continuously.



The main drawback to Tainted Blade is the huge health regen penality of -10. So to offset that you could use the following gear:



Lifegiver: +3 Regen

Rose Thorn: +1

Maric's Blade: +1.5

Cailan's Armor: +5



Which Should give you a total health regen of 10.5. More then enough to run Tainted Blade 24/7.



So taking cunning to 40 would add 11 points of dmg. If you went assassin/bard you could add almost 20 points of dmg per backstab. Pretty nice. The stat requirements are rough though.



BTW, I have not played much with Tainted Blade. Is the damage bonus backstab only?

[Last Darkness]

beancounter501 wrote...

Doing some more theory crafting here, but how about making a Cun build that could run Tainted Blade almost continuously.

The main drawback to Tainted Blade is the huge health regen penality of -10. So to offset that you could use the following gear:

Lifegiver: +3 Regen
Rose Thorn: +1
Maric's Blade: +1.5
Cailan's Armor: +5

Which Should give you a total health regen of 10.5. More then enough to run Tainted Blade 24/7.

So taking cunning to 40 would add 11 points of dmg. If you went assassin/bard you could add almost 20 points of dmg per backstab. Pretty nice. The stat requirements are rough though.

BTW, I have not played much with Tainted Blade. Is the damage bonus backstab only?

I think its universal per strike damage, also though the problem comes when things start hiting the rogue though.

[DWSmiley]

Yeah, the only character I've played who used the power of blood regulary was a S&S with Maric's, Cailan's and Lifegiver. Too risky, otherwise. The extra dps is totally not needed against trash mobs and I don't like damaging myself when facing something powerful.

[MEBengal2008]

After playing DAO many times over and reviewing many forums on this topic this is what I learned.



Starting your STR at 12 and Cunning at 17 gives you enough points to play DAO from beginning to end. The rest could go into DEX. The pure DEX builds provide the best defense, attack,and physical resistance. Not to mention then final Awakening talents for rogues require a DEX of 52. With that in mind I would definitely give DEX propers for being superior to STR or CUNNING rogue builds.



Cunning builds have a problem because you have to invest so many points into them to make them good; however, when used with the Bard Song along with lethality the damage output, when a hit suceeds, exceeds the damage output from a DEX or STR build. The problem being is you don't hit as often. I believe 70-80% is typically with Cunning builds.



STR builds you still have to invest points into DEX and Cunning to obtain the better rogue only talents. This build allows you to wear the heavier armors, which is a very nice bonus.



The only problem with a DEX build is if you get caught you are SCREWED! This is especially true with Orges or any creature than can grab you; however, most others will miss you.



As for game play; it is players choice on which type they want to play. In fact I have a STR/DEX and a CUNNING/DEX builds I'm playing.



My STR/DEX is a dwarf commoner who is a duelist and will take the legionare scout and shadow specializations in DA Awakening.



My CUNNING/DEX build is a female human noble who is a bard/duelist and will select the shadow specialization in DA Awakening.



What I love about DAO is that they went with three basic classes but offer specializations so we can customize our characters and there are a few different ways to build each class thanks to attribute scores and specializations.



But best of all; DAO just has an awesome story that brings you in again and again.



Now I would love to stay and chat but DAO is calling my name.

[Atranes]

I prefer DEX for solo, because being hit only by special auto-hit attacks is nice. In a party, I prefer CUN because the bard party buffs are great and better suited to a CUN build. So, it depends on what I'm planning on doing.