26 réponses à ce sujet

[Josh Echo]

I keep getting a hard crash—a crash which locks up the entire operating system, requiring a full restart of the computer—every few hours while playing Mass Effect.  It seems to have damaged my system to the point where shutting down my computer is no longer possible, by the way (twice now I've selected "shut down" from the Windows Start Menu and left it overnight, and the next morning it was still "shutting down").  I doubt that the shutdown crashes can be fixed by anything short of a Windows reinstall, but I'm hoping someone here can help me stop the game crashes.  My system specifications follow.

Graphics card: Geforce 7800 GT
Sound card: Realtek AC97 Audio (yes, I'm running the game with hardware sound turned off, as recommended)
Operating system: Windows XP Professional
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4600+
DirectX version: 9.0c

Any aid toward resolving my plight would be entirely appreciated.

Update: I forgot to mention a few very important things.  Moreover, some of the information in this post before this update is somewhat incorrect.  The thread title has been changed to be more accurate.  The issue has been fixed, as described in one of my posts on the second page.  See social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/131/index/3221066/2#3288626 for corrections, addendums, and solution.  My apologies.

Modifié par Josh Echo, 30 juillet 2010 - 03:36 .

[Gorath Alpha]

You have a very elderly video graphics card with very few shader units.  I'm quite suspicious that video driver conflict is your problem.  What have you learned from Searching here for "flickering"?

[Josh Echo]

Ah, yes—I forgot to describe the crash itself. The game hangs for a few seconds, then the screen goes black, and flashes white about once per second. The flash is very brief.



I did not find any relevant results in any of my searches using a variety of strings, hence my post here.

[phoenixofthunder]

I agree with Gorath it is most likely a video driver issue or dare I say it: an overheating or dying video card.

You could try updating the video driver or running ME1 in a window and GPU-Z and see what type GPU temps you get before everything crashes.

If the GPU temperature gets way over 75*C your card is getting near the danger threshold for being burned to a crisp.

If updating the video driver doesn't work you could try reducing your settings, I know ME1 will run on a 7600GT if set to lowish-medium settings.

Worse case scenario you'll need to get a new graphic card.
 

Modifié par phoenixofthunder, 24 juillet 2010 - 06:10 .

[Josh Echo]

Well, I reluctantly updated my Nvida drivers. They were about two years old. I really didn't want to do this, because the last time I updated my drivers, my favorite, second-favorite, and third-favorite games of all time stopped working completely and although I tried everything recommended, they haven't worked since. But I wrote down my previous driver version so I know what to look for if this screws things up worse. I'll post later about whether or not the driver update fixes the problem.

Modifié par Josh Echo, 26 juillet 2010 - 02:58 .

[Gorath Alpha]

When it's nVIDIA, I am more likely to go the OTHER way when I have driver trouble, and ROLL BACK to an older one.  I have an 8800 GT, and I'm still using the drivers that the manufacturer (BFG) included with it. 

Gorath
-

[Josh Echo]

I'm inclined to agree.  In my experience, updating Nvida drivers breaks more than it fixes.  Heck, it's probably just me, but it seems to me that after updating yesterday, Mass Effect looks worse.  Little or no anti-aliasing.  But maybe I just wasn't looking for it before.

Modifié par Josh Echo, 25 juillet 2010 - 11:25 .

[Josh Echo]

Well, I haven't had the time to be able to play long enough to tell whether updating my driver fixed the Mass Effect crash problem, but it did screw up the facial textures. I adjusted every graphical option in-game and nothing fixed it, and I also tried fiddling with the Nvidia control panel outside of the game to no effect.

Modifié par Josh Echo, 25 juillet 2010 - 11:26 .

[Josh Echo]

Great. Now it bluescreens instead of the flicker crash, and while it claims to do a physical memory dump, it says that it's finished a second later (an actual physical memory dump takes several minutes on my computer). Upon restarting the computer, Windows informs me that the system has "recovered from a serious error." I think I liked the flicker crash better, especially since I didn't have messed-up facial textures that make half the characters look horribly scarred and the others look striped.  I guess it's time to go looking for an installation file for my old driver.

Modifié par Josh Echo, 26 juillet 2010 - 02:05 .

[Gorath Alpha]

Some people have inadequate patience to use PCs for anything much besides business use.  They so dislike the PC that it interferes with getting pleasure from using it.  They should stick with electronic games on consoles.  There is seldom any one kind of cure-all for a particular problem, because of the interactions of a widely varied hardware & software mix.  For instance, there really isn't any single video driver that works for everyone. 

The graphics devices are seriously complex hardware, and the software engineers often "break" older driver solutions when adding new things, or correcting other things.  Both ATI and nVIDIA have this problem from time to time, although in my opinion, Geforce drivers for the past three years have been poorer than ever in nVIDIA's long history. 

[Josh Echo]

I, for one, do have the patience for hardcore P.C. gaming. However, I do not have the patience to locate, download, and install every single driver version between my old driver and the new one (my particular graphics card does not even show up in the Nvidia archives, and the newest driver for it on Cnet.com was uploaded in 2005). Is there anything that I can do about this problem, short of the dubious solution I just mentioned? I really don't like fiddling with drivers, for the reasons you and I both mentioned. Why, just rolling back to my old driver caused Windows to incorrectly assume that I changed my hardware, forcing me to reactivate the operating system. Good thing I currently have an Internet connection on this machine. [glare at Microsoft and Nvida]

P.S. Please do not assume that my transparent irritation is directed toward anyone in this thread; it isn't.  I'm quite grateful for all of your efforts, even if I'm not very adept at communicating it.

Modifié par Josh Echo, 26 juillet 2010 - 03:05 .

[Josh Echo]

Well, rolling back to the driver I was using before I updated yesterday has fixed the facial textures, but there is still the flicker crash. It only happens after I've been playing for several hours; it has never once happened when I've only been playing for a few minutes or even half an hour. I wonder if it has something to do with a cache or my virtual memory or page files, or something of that sort.

[Josh Echo]

Great job, Bioware! The last time the game crashed, I discovered upon rebooting that I couldn't run Windows, not even in safe mode. Wouldn't go any further than the BIOS, even with multiple restarts. I'm currently posting from a crap laptop because my P.C. is doing a full reinstall of Windows onto a clean hard drive. Way to go, Bioware! Nice going, Nvidia! Three cheers for sloppy programming! Hip, hip, hurrah!

Can no one help me?  I'd really, really like to be able to play one of my favorite games without having to worry about how many weeks I'll be able to play before I have to reinstall Windows and every single program on my computer.  Electronic Arts, Bioware, and Nvidia are wholly disinterested in my inability to play this legally purchased game, since the percentage of paying customers who experience game-breaking (or Windows-breaking, as in my case) bugs is small enough that they can afford to ignore them and lose their future purchases.  [sigh]

Modifié par Josh Echo, 27 juillet 2010 - 03:45 .

[phoenixofthunder]

Just happenned to me: the flicker crash but due my multi redundancy desktop computer I was able to launch back into OS and repair the issue. Was told by OS dialog box that my audio driver caused the crash (same as yours -Realtek AC'97).You could try updating or downgrading your audio driver.

Also no need to bash Bioware or Nvidia. They try hard to remedy problems. EA (no comment)

Modifié par phoenixofthunder, 27 juillet 2010 - 03:51 .

[Josh Echo]

That's very interesting! Do you run the game with hardware sound turned off in the game options? (You're supposed to, with this sound card, according to Bioware's readme.)  Thanks a ton for the tip.  I'll try fiddling with the sound card drivers instead of the graphic card's.

Modifié par Josh Echo, 27 juillet 2010 - 04:18 .

[phoenixofthunder]

No problem. I have hardware sound on and no problems so far. Apparently my hardware sound got disabled and thats what caused the crash.

I'm using driver version according to the device manager: 5.10.0.5485
Date: 9/19/2007 (almost 3 years old! And it causes no problems in other games either!)

If you want email me and I'll send you the driver.

Modifié par phoenixofthunder, 27 juillet 2010 - 04:42 .

[manofaiki2008]

Wow. So a NVidia GeForce 7800GT is an 'elderly' video card?



Uh-oh. I just upgraded from an ancient GeForce 440 MX that I had when I did on this computer was play Warcraft. I got a GeForce 7600GT on Amazon.com and 2 gigs of memory.



And, apparently, I'm still living in the Stone Age.



What's a good up to date graphics card then guys? I could use some tips.

[manofaiki2008]

What I tried incoherently to say in that last post is, up until a month ago, all ever did on this computer was play World of Warcraft, and a GeForce 440 MX was all I needed. Once I bought some new games though, like The Witcher, Crysis and both Mass Effect games, I knew I needed to upgrade.



I bought a NVidia GeForce 7600 GT with 512MB and 2 gigs of PNY 444 RAM at Amazon and got a good deal.



Or so I thought.



The graphics card was $86. Did I get robbed? What should I have gotten if I wanted something that's current?

[Josh Echo]

I don't know, but my card is probably almost the same as yours and, barring the crashes (which probably aren't due to graphics at all), suffices quite nicely for Mass Effect.  I play on maximum graphics with a very good frame rate, although there are occasional freezes (several seconds long, but the game is effectively paused so you don't die as a result).  They're basically loading zones without the disk icon.  You might need to experiment with older drivers if you have the face texture problem, though.  (Oops, just checked your thread and looks like you already did and fixed it.  Good.)

Game graphics are no longer improving at the amazing rate that they were from perhaps 1995 to 2007, so your card should be good for a few more years, although on many newer games you'll probably have to run on lower settings.  I'd consider our cards "medium;" they're not high-end at all but they're not rubbish, either.  They work, mostly.

Modifié par Josh Echo, 27 juillet 2010 - 10:37 .

[Gorath Alpha]

manofaiki2008 wrote...

What I tried incoherently to say in that last post is, up until a month ago, all ever did on this computer was play World of Warcraft, and a GeForce 440 MX was all I needed. Once I bought some new games though, like The Witcher, Crysis and both Mass Effect games, I knew I needed to upgrade.

I bought a NVidia GeForce 7600 GT with 512MB and 2 gigs of PNY 444 RAM at Amazon and got a good deal.

Or so I thought.

The graphics card was $86. Did I get robbed? What should I have gotten if I wanted something that's current?

Compared to the MX, you are better off, but that's a four year old video card, with very few shader units included.  The immensely superior HD 4650 from two years ago has been available for the past year at the $60 - $70 price point, plus the best value from two years ago, the HD 4670, usually sells fot $75 or so.  These are online, from Newegg & other competitors. 

For your $86, you should have been able to get a Geforce GT 240, which is roughly equivalent to the HD 4650, just priced higher because nVIDIA fans aren't as value conscious as they might be.  Any "dollars" other than USD, of course, must be adjusted to suit.  The more current equivalent of the HD 4650 costs more, but has Dx11, which isn't offered by the older Radeon.  It is the HD 5570.  Among older model Geforces still seen available, there are 9600 GTs that blow a poor 7600 into the weeds, while not costing any more than you paid. 

I'm purposely not naming any cards from 3 years ago from nVIDIA, if they can be found for sale, still, because too many of them have had problems.

Video Card Shader Performance Rankings (ME-1):

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/131/index/3117442

Regarding both of those now-very elderly graphics devices, the Geforce 7n00 generation wasn't comparatively faster or better than the 6n00 cards, and didn't increase the shader units significantly.  Here is Josh's 7800 GT sitting next to the 6800 GT (which from a purely practical point of view, is what should have been named as the minimum). 

www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php

There's no effective improvement for the 7600 GT over the year older, but basically far better 6800 GT,

www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php

Mainline Game cards are the Medium Level, which normally have a "600" or "700" digit in the "n" position, 9n00 = 9600, HD 4n50 = 4650.  High End cards have an "800" in the "n" position.  After the 9n00 renamings of the 8n00s, nVIDIA stopped using the Performance numbers in the cards' names. 

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 27 juillet 2010 - 12:21 .

[manofaiki2008]

That was very helpful, thanks Gorath! I'll think about upgrading this card when I have the money.

[manofaiki2008]

Something else I probably should have mentioned: I had to get a AGP card because that's how this older computer is configured. I'm aware PCI-E has taken over the world in the meantime, but until I upgrade to a newer computer, I had to get an AGP card.  

I'm ecstatic to see the card I just bought is the dead last minimum spec card in the list you provided, ha ha.  

Then again,  I'm pretty sure it's one of the only cards in that list that is AGP rather than PCI or PCI-E. 

So my options were limited to begin with.  

Hopefully I can save up some money soon and upgrade to a brand new computer that takes PCI-E cards and get something much higher up on that card list.  

Modifié par manofaiki2008, 27 juillet 2010 - 07:20 .

[Gorath Alpha]

Although nVIDIA abandoned AGP as soon as it could, several ATI partners kept supporting AGP through the pair of HD 4600 cards, just two years ago, and some 2-3 times as high of a performance as the 7600 GT, at least when it comes to pixel shaders. The newest high end AGP card was the HD 3850, three years ago, and I doubt  that any of those are still in the retail channel.

The Geforce 7n00 cards were the last nVIDIA offered with AGP, and that was 4 1/2 years ago.  PCI-e is now five years old, and had many advantages over AGP, not the least of which was its comparative low cost against the very complex  AGP, which had meant that several large selling brands produced budget mainboards for their economy lines that had no real video bus included at all. 

Modifié par Gorath Alpha, 27 juillet 2010 - 07:34 .

[manofaiki2008]

I think since I just spent $80+ on this 'new' 7600 for this AGP computer, I'm gonna have to stick with it for awhile. I do see some HD 3850's for sale used on EBay for around $40 but I think I'm better off just saving up my money and upgrading to a new computer and getting something that's PCI-E.



This has been every educational.

[Fredvdp]

Gorath Alpha wrote...

When it's nVIDIA, I am more likely to go the OTHER way when I have driver trouble, and ROLL BACK to an older one.  I have an 8800 GT, and I'm still using the drivers that the manufacturer (BFG) included with it. 

Gorath
-

I have a 9600 GT and getting a new driver is always an adventure. I got an average of two blue screens per day last week until I rolled back.