535 réponses à ce sujet

[Zhijn]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Bruce Venne wrote...

We are improving the combat, but not at the expense of the story.

But are you improving it at the expense of rich tactical combat?

Why can't it be that they're just improving the combat system?  You people assume that by making any changes or improvements the game will suffer in another area because of it.  Unless DA: O combat was perfect I can see where they can improve without trade-off.

BW didnt confirmed or denied the 1UP preview on the hack & slash area.
And Bruce cleverly avoided the question overall with the usual "improvement" reply we get rather often.

But BW are tirkcy that way when revealing information. It could be either way.
And so the skeptic's are born! I being one of em

[Lyssistr]

glenboy24 wrote...

With all do respect to the OP (who I actually *do respect deeply) and 1.UP, as well as everyone jumping on the, "Let's find something else to complain about," bandwagon...come on! This is BioWare we're talking about folks. Now, no matter how you slice it, I'm going to come off as a die-hard BW fan-boi; and, for the most part, I am. However, even I'm open minded enough to spot elements that may concern me when it comes to any game developer or IP that I love. Case in point, I'm a huge Star Wars nerd (epically) however, I don't love *everything* that is Star Wars, especially in games. The Force Unleashed? Terrible. Bland story, horrible game mechanics. The same can be said for many other games that have delved into that universe.

What's different about BioWare and their IPs? They *never* dropped the Ball. And, no, bugs and patches don't count. Show me a game that's bug free in this day and age. On top of that, when you have a game as massive is scope, across multiple plantforms, as Dragon Age or Mass Effect, you're going to have hiccups. However, when you look at the core of both IPs, what you get is something fairly stunning in the best ways possible.  

Despite the complaints people have had, despite all the hate shown when both Mass Effect first popped on the scene and even when Origins first made it's appearence, people have always appeared after the fact to relent and recognize that both games were incredible experiences, either via story, mechanics, or both. You can gripe and moan again and again (as I'm sure you'll continue to do so after this) but the fact is BioWare has Always delivered on their promises. Will DA2 look different? We know it does. Will people come to dig the knew look? Some say they don't, but BioWare's skills at visual charm will work it's magic as it always does. People hated the look of DAO, calling it dated. Now? People are saying DAO looked better and this new engine looks "Cartoony," Who wants to bet this cycle will repeat itself for DA3? "Why change the graphics?! DA2 looks way better!" As to combat? Again, we've been down this road before. BioWare changes combat, as they did for ME2 and people crawl out of woodworks to decry it as "Gears of Mass Effect," However, after release, people are loving it, and the weapons, and so on. As for Story? If I even *have* to defend BioWare's storytelling to anyone of you, than you *don't* belong on this Forum or anywhere near a BioWare IP. End of Story.

The fact is, people need to stop trying to pick apart every little thing, or take the word of a gaming media reviewer you might not exactly be in the unbiased frame of mind a *good* reviewer is supposed to be in. Something tells me sir is very much in the "What can I complain about today?" mindset that many of you seem to be. It goes without saying that with all the incredible experiences BioWare has given us, with all the successes BioWare has had with all of it's IPs and even shared licenses, I think they've damn well Earned out Trust at this point. Stop trying to find reasons to hate Dragon Age 2 just because it didn't turn out to be the sequel so many of you pictured in your heads. Even if it isn't what you imagined in your Mind's Eye this is Still BioWare, and what they give us will no doubt surpass every expectation as they always have.

Should it come to pass that the game releases and there are small details people want changed, than I'm sure the Mod community will step up. As for the console gamers, even if small add ons can not be made, what we will gain as a core experience will be nothing short of amazing, just as DAO was. So, for the Love of Pete, people, please stop trying to find things to hate and just TRUST. And don't feed in to those who start rolling this anger ball down the hill because they want others to share in their misery. Again, BioWare deserves better than what many of you have shown them thus far. 

Noone's saying it will be bad, the question is not bad or good. Here, the question is if it's hack & slash or not. It's something that needs to be clarified, else it may simply not being honestly advertised.

It's not about hate nor trust, it's about getting details for a consumer product which some of us consider to pay (some even for pre-order). 

If it is hack & slash it'll probably be a decent hack & slash, however considering Diablo III is on it's way, I'll stick with the best hack & slash series of all time.

[Rogue Unit]

Kordaris, you do know that 4 times out of 6 you were a "peasant" in DA:O and it's never been stated that Hawke is a peasant just a refugee, at least to my knowledge.

[Grommash94]

Kordaris wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Kordaris, you do know that 4 times out of 6 you were a "peasant" in DA:O and it's never been stated that Hawke is a peasant just a refugee, at least to my knowledge.

I was never a peasant in DA:O. I don't care about the human named Hawke. Why should I ? I care for my PC from DAO that  I was told to keep saves about.

Yes, you have made that really, really, really, clear. Is it really necessary to repeat the same thing over and over?

[Lyssistr]

AlanC9 wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...
This is the 1UP thread, the 1UP previewer didn't say he saw improvements in tactical combat, he said he saw a hack & slash game.

He also says he was looking at the XBox version. So the combat change isn't relevant for us, unless the Bio devs were simply lying when they said that the combat changes were for the consoles.

They didn't exactly say consoles will get hack & slash either. The IGN preview was more in-line with what they had said, but this one just isn't.

Personally, until I see a couple of gameplay videos on youtube, I'm not convinced on purchasing DA2. 

[AntiChri5]

Grommash94 wrote...

Kordaris wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Kordaris, you do know that 4 times out of 6 you were a "peasant" in DA:O and it's never been stated that Hawke is a peasant just a refugee, at least to my knowledge.

I was never a peasant in DA:O. I don't care about the human named Hawke. Why should I ? I care for my PC from DAO that  I was told to keep saves about.

Yes, you have made that really, really, really, clear. Is it really necessary to repeat the same thing over and over?

Apparently.

Are you familiar with the term troll?

[Rogue Unit]

Kordaris wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Kordaris, you do know that 4 times out of 6 you were a "peasant" in DA:O and it's never been stated that Hawke is a peasant just a refugee, at least to my knowledge.

I was never a peasant in DA:O. I don't care about the human named Hawke. Why should I ? I care for my PC from DAO that  I was told to keep saves about.

This isn't Mass Effect (As much as people like claim it is) BioWare never said you'd import your WARDEN just your DECISIONS.

[Altima Darkspells]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Bruce Venne wrote...

We are improving the combat, but not at the expense of the story.

But are you improving it at the expense of rich tactical combat?

Why can't it be that they're just improving the combat system?  You people assume that by making any changes or improvements the game will suffer in another area because of it.  Unless DA: O combat was perfect I can see where they can improve without trade-off.

Uh, because any improvement in one area will mean that another area will suffer.  Developers only have so many resources (commonly referred to as zots) to put into a game.

So for implementing a fully voiced main character, recording, coding, bug-testing, another area had to suffer (and suddenly Origin stories are gone).  They already had a full combat system from DAO.  Instead of taking what they had and improving upon it, it seems they've decided to create a completely new combat system, which will take even more.

And if they've decided to create *two* different combat systems--one all hack 'n slashy for the console gamers (which I'd find insulting if I were one) and one with more strategic depth for the PC--then that's also more resources down the tube.

If they spread themselves too thin in all the areas, it's likely that DA2 will be a mix-mashed, paper-thin mess.

There's already no way that DA2 will be as long as DAO (without artificially extending duration with useless drivel, like ME's planetary exploration or ME2's planet scanning).  Now all we're doing is wondering how much shorter it will be.

glenboy24 wrote...

What's different about BioWare and their IPs? They *never* dropped the Ball.  

Sonic Chronicles.

[Zhijn]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

Kordaris wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Kordaris, you do know that 4 times out of 6 you were a "peasant" in DA:O and it's never been stated that Hawke is a peasant just a refugee, at least to my knowledge.

I was never a peasant in DA:O. I don't care about the human named Hawke. Why should I ? I care for my PC from DAO that  I was told to keep saves about.

Yes, you have made that really, really, really, clear. Is it really necessary to repeat the same thing over and over?

Apparently.

Are you familiar with the term troll?

Suprised people didnt notice this like 10 pages back.

[derkaderka-]

2 things. don't give me a dumbed down mass effect dialogue wheel. and don't mess with the pc roots that this franchise was built on.

i'll deal with the dumbed down single origin, surname, race. because i have no choice. but it will kill the replay value because the same guy making different choices isnt the same as playing a different origin. i still think its pretty lame. at this rate, awakening is the better game compared to da2 with all these announced changes to the genre.. they're ditching their baldur's gate roots for a console/mass effect clone.

but the dialogue wheel from mass effect is a major deal breaker. thats nothing more than watching cut scenes mixed with some over the shoulder action game... no role play, no immersion. let me choose my character chat. the mass effect wheel is the worst feature in that series. if youre going to steal a feature from another game, make sure its a good feature, ffs.

Modifié par derkaderka-, 24 juillet 2010 - 08:04 .

[Grommash94]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Bruce Venne wrote...

We are improving the combat, but not at the expense of the story.

But are you improving it at the expense of rich tactical combat?

Why can't it be that they're just improving the combat system?  You people assume that by making any changes or improvements the game will suffer in another area because of it.  Unless DA: O combat was perfect I can see where they can improve without trade-off.

Uh, because any improvement in one area will mean that another area will suffer.  Developers only have so many resources (commonly referred to as zots) to put into a game.

So for implementing a fully voiced main character, recording, coding, bug-testing, another area had to suffer (and suddenly Origin stories are gone).  They already had a full combat system from DAO.  Instead of taking what they had and improving upon it, it seems they've decided to create a completely new combat system, which will take even more.

And if they've decided to create *two* different combat systems--one all hack 'n slashy for the console gamers (which I'd find insulting if I were one) and one with more strategic depth for the PC--then that's also more resources down the tube.

If they spread themselves too thin in all the areas, it's likely that DA2 will be a mix-mashed, paper-thin mess.

There's already no way that DA2 will be as long as DAO (without artificially extending duration with useless drivel, like ME's planetary exploration or ME2's planet scanning).  Now all we're doing is wondering how much shorter it will be.

glenboy24 wrote...

What's different about BioWare and their IPs? They *never* dropped the Ball.  

Sonic Chronicles.

But we don't know what the budget is like (it probably is larger than DA:O), how much they have saved because of dropping the Origins. They have not created an entirely new combat system; from the IGN article, it seems not much has changed in terms of UI on the console version, and they have stated that the PC version will largely remain the same.

I don't think VO is really that much of a limiter. SW:TOR is going to have multiple voice actors, and have more than 100 hours of gameplay for each class (in terms of story and quests alone). Obviously the budget is a lot higher, but still.

Plus, as has been said elsewhere, it could be that they are going to simply remove the pointless conversations one can have with guards and stuff in order to maintain the budget.

With that said, yes the game will most likely be shorter than Origins. I don't think it'll be so short, however, that it will be like ME2

Modifié par Grommash94, 24 juillet 2010 - 08:02 .

[Saibh]

I don't give two shakes about combat. I really don't. If it has a good story, then I am pleased. I haven't seen anything (of course, we don't know anything, either) indicating otherwise.

EDIT: Also. Someone explain to me how the dialogue wheel presents a "dumbed down" version of anything. So long as the icons and the shortline do their jobs, I hardly see how we have anything to worry about. Seriously, it's just a cleaner version of presenting everything in a choice 1, 2, 3 format.

Altima Darkspells wrote...

glenboy24 wrote...

What's different about BioWare and their IPs? They *never* dropped the Ball.  

Sonic Chronicles.

It doesn't exist. Yeah, I've checked all the right resources, and they all agree: it never existed.

Modifié par Saibh, 24 juillet 2010 - 08:02 .

[Chairon de Celeste]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Kordaris, you do know that 4 times out of 6 you were a "peasant" in DA:O and it's never been stated that Hawke is a peasant just a refugee, at least to my knowledge.

Thanks for that, much appreciated

We're discussing an arrticle here wich combines misinformation with plagiaterism
(orcs and ogres passage taken from ign)

Civics not only taught me about the right usage of the term 'freedom of speech'
- so no need for throwing pocket protectors
- but also to analyze a source of information and find out about it's motivations
and this one pretty much
sounds to me like:
'Meh - I was ordered to cough up a review but have less than little useful info
- dang, I just look at what the others write and rephrase that a wee tad.'

Modifié par Chairon de Celeste, 24 juillet 2010 - 08:08 .

[Kenrae]

What's the problem with Sonic Chronicles? I kinda liked it. Of course, it's a much simpler game since it was intended to be for kids. And we knew that from the start.

[fchopin]

Grommash94 wrote...

I don't think VO is really that much of a limiter.

Don't you think we may loose the toolset because of VO?

[BLunted]

Brockololly wrote...

Didn't see this posted anywhere here yet, so here it is: http://www.1up.com/d...age?cId=3180562

Like it or not, BioWare, it seems the impression DA2 is giving off is that its an over the top, simplified hack-n-slash.

A couple quotes from the article:

Most of the demo was spent explaining the evolution process of Dragon Age: Origins to that of Dragon Age 2, in that the team paid attention to reviews,  and listened to focus groups to get feedback on what worked and what didn't. Apparently a lot of the complaints revolved around the combat,  and BioWare took notes to evolve Dragon Age 2 into what it is currently  shaping up to be... a much more combat driven action game. So much for  the rebirth of the Western RPG.

Yes, one of the big changes for Dragon Age 2 is that the combat has been revamped (or stripped back, depending on how you look at it) -- turning it into a much more hack-n-slash type of game when playing as a Knight. This is all done through a closer third-person perspective than the  first game; think Ninja Gaiden, and how you hacked through dozens of enemies, blood spilling everywhere -- now replace ninjas with darkspawn, and you have the basic idea  behind DA2.

Another thing that was shown was the "new" art style. I couldn't notice  anything that radically different from the first Dragon Age, although it was explained that a lot of work went into making sure the game looked  and played the same across each of the platforms. So I guess this means  the developers have simplified it away from what made the original so  enduring to PC gamers? Or maybe they were talking about how the  interface of the game has changed to be much more simplified -- the only things displayed on screen are your party's health and mana in the  lower left, and since the Xbox 360 version was being demoed, the cycle of powers is still in the lower right. 

Thoughts? I'm waiting to see some PC gameplay- if the PC version truly is going to "look and play the same" as the console versions, I've got a HUGE problem with that...

wow, hype meter just keeps falling and falling...

[Grommash94]

fchopin wrote...

Grommash94 wrote...

I don't think VO is really that much of a limiter.

Don't you think we may loose the toolset because of VO?

The toolset is probably one of my only worries about DA2. I don't think the engine that DA2 is different than DA:O, so maybe just an updated toolset to go along with the new art direction would have to be put out? I dunno.

[David Gaider]

Lyssistr wrote...
Noone's saying it will be bad, the question is not bad or good. Here, the question is if it's hack & slash or not. It's something that needs to be clarified, else it may simply not being honestly advertised.

I'm not certain about the "hack & slash" term, myself. That's one of those loaded terms that tends to apply to games that are light on story and heavy on action-based twitch mechanics, after all, and tends to mean different things to different people.

The action is quicker in DA2 and the controls are designed to be more responsive-- you input a command and something happens immediately. Which is not to say that you're furiously pounding the action button to cue every swing, but simply that the delays caused by animation sequences and "getting into position" are less than they were in DAO. Is that "hack & slash"? You tell me. In some respects you could extend that same appellation to DAO.

Was the combat we showed in the demo over the top? Certainly. As we've mentioned elsewhere, that part of the tale is a brief glimpse at the "exaggerated" legend of Hawke-- he kills monsters with a single stroke, slicing each one in two with a single slice of his sword, and farts lightning bolts out of his ass. Is the whole game like that? Certainly not-- that's simply part of the set-up.

Is it fair for a viewer to say the action was over the top, considering that's all we showed them? Sure. There's plenty more for us to show in the future, I doubt we're really worried about it. This is what we wanted to show right now-- a peek at an early action sequence, something that gave a glimpse at how it's more responsive and visceral, as well as a look at the new art style and the mechanical changes of a single, simple dialogue with the voiced PC.

Is that not what everyone wanted to see? Maybe so. Like I said, I doubt we're really worried about it, considering there's many months left to go. There's still a lot more to show, like "regular" combat and a look at the story, all stuff I'm sure folks who hang out here would be interested to hear more about.  Some people who were here prior to Origins release might probably be experiencing a bit of déjà vu, considering the agonized twistings the forum community went through after every release of information-- which is not to say that DA2 is secretly everything someone here hoped and dreamed it would be, no, simply that you're not seeing the complete picture just yet. Because we're not showing the complete picture just yet. It'll come.

Until then, carry on.

Modifié par David Gaider, 24 juillet 2010 - 08:12 .

[derkaderka-]

Saibh wrote...


EDIT: Also. Someone explain to me how the dialogue wheel presents a "dumbed down" version of anything. So long as the icons and the shortline do their jobs, I hardly see how we have anything to worry about. Seriously, it's just a cleaner version of presenting everything in a choice 1, 2, 3 format.

in dao you get to read all the choices out. in mass effect wheel you don't. knowing up front which dialogue doesn't fit with your role playing is crucial. not knowing breaks it. with the wheel, even the one you do choose you have no idea what YOU are about to say. it breaks the immersion of being in control of your character. the mass effect wheel makes you a spectator in shepard's story. spectator = bad. in dragon age, you get to choose the response that fits your personality and stay connected with your character by choosing what you say. in mass effect, you have no personality, you have to choose from a couple of shepard's. its very lame. there's nothing rpg about it.

[Saibh]

derkaderka- wrote...

Saibh wrote...


EDIT: Also. Someone explain to me how the dialogue wheel presents a "dumbed down" version of anything. So long as the icons and the shortline do their jobs, I hardly see how we have anything to worry about. Seriously, it's just a cleaner version of presenting everything in a choice 1, 2, 3 format.

in dao you get to read all the choices out. in mass effect wheel you don't. knowing up front which dialogue doesn't fit with your role playing is crucial. not knowing breaks it. with the wheel, even the one you do choose you have no idea what YOU are about to say. it breaks the immersion of being in control of your character. the mass effect wheel makes you a spectator in shepard's story. spectator = bad. in dragon age, you get to choose the response that fits your personality and stay connected with your character by choosing what you say. in mass effect, you have no personality, you have to choose from a couple of shepard's. its very lame. there's nothing rpg about it.

Alright, that's how you feel about it. The way I feel about it is that--so long as the icon isn't confusing--I have a pretty damn good idea about what my character is about to say. I guess there's somewhat the element of surprise there, and it doesn't bother me. DA2 is a different game than DAO. A lot of the same elements are there, some aren't. I guess I've accepted that.

I'll have to wait until I've played the game to really know, I suppose. But I'm not holding my breath to see if it's a good game or not; BioWare has never released a game I did not like.

[AntiChri5]

derkaderka- wrote...

Saibh wrote...


EDIT: Also. Someone explain to me how the dialogue wheel presents a "dumbed down" version of anything. So long as the icons and the shortline do their jobs, I hardly see how we have anything to worry about. Seriously, it's just a cleaner version of presenting everything in a choice 1, 2, 3 format.

in dao you get to read all the choices out. in mass effect wheel you don't. knowing up front which dialogue doesn't fit with your role playing is crucial. not knowing breaks it. with the wheel, even the one you do choose you have no idea what YOU are about to say. it breaks the immersion of being in control of your character. the mass effect wheel makes you a spectator in shepard's story. spectator = bad. in dragon age, you get to choose the response that fits your personality and stay connected with your character by choosing what you say. in mass effect, you have no personality, you have to choose from a couple of shepard's. its very lame. there's nothing rpg about it.

We will have to trust in the writing on whether or not the paraphrase accurately portrays the voiced lines. One thing we do know is that we have something that was not present in either DA: O or ME/ME 2. The indicators of intent. Now i know whether or not i am joking around with a character or outright insulting them.

FYI: The oh so perfect list in Origins had a maximum of six options and no more than (i believe) 65 characters.