535 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

David Gaider wrote...

I don't have a diagram to post, sorry, but you have six spokes on the wheel: NW, W, SW, SE, E, NE.

On the "regular" wheel you have the W spoke reserved for Investigate (if there are any Investigates on that node). Selecting it flips you over to the "investigate" wheel, where you have the same number of spokes and E is reserved for Return-- which brings you back to the regular wheel. A built-in investigate hub, if you will, without the need for awkward dialogue transitions.

Please don't take it wrong way, but the idea of having a command on one side of the wheel to enter the investigation but then having to use command on opposite side to exit sounds rather awkward as far as UI is concerned. (there's both unnecessary movement involved if you're just taking glance at these options, and it can get potentially confusing when a spot in the interface sometimes is an action but sometimes it's just a switch depending on which mode you're on which isn't guaranteed to be very evident, i'd imagime)

Did you by chance try to experiment with putting the switch "back" in the same spot the original command to switch to investigation is placed, so it becomes essentially a toggle? Bonus advantage to that would be, such toggle can be then converted to a distinct, fixed button so it's even more obvious clicking on it does something different than making the character speak out a line.

not trying to do your work there, but just a thought.

Modifié par tmp7704, 25 juillet 2010 - 12:47 .

[Bobad]

So without reading 15+ pages (+12 since I went to work), what changes to console combat?

[joriandrake]

Bobad wrote...

So without reading 15+ pages (+12 since I went to work), what changes to console combat?

read

[Grommash94]

Bobad wrote...

So without reading 15+ pages (+12 since I went to work), what changes to console combat?

When you select a skill, and initiate it, it does so instantly....that is pretty much the only thing they have actually  announced, formally.

[David Gaider]

Kordaris wrote...
I am surprised you don't see why people reacted so strongly to limiting their choices of playable characters to one in direct contradiction what we have seen in DAO. This is was a total remake of  excellent game we experienced before

Err... yes? Some people do indeed react strongly-- and maybe in the end the sequel's not for them. We have reasons for the changes we made, however, and we don't believe that automatically makes DA2 a lesser game. At this point, I don't think there's a lot of information to go by unless there mere fact of those changes is enough to make up your mind and there's nothing that could possibly be good without them-- in which case there's not much for us to talk about, is there?

Frankly the reaction would be quite different if from the beginning of DAO we would be informed that the next game will not feature the Origins system.

So... you would have liked us to see into the future and warn people that a feature which had complete relevance to the game they're playing might not appear in a future game that they know nothing about yet? To what end?

[David Gaider]

tmp7704 wrote...
Please don't take it wrong way, but the idea of having a command on one side of the wheel to enter the investigation but then having to use command on opposite side to exit sounds rather awkward as far as UI is concerned. (there's both unnecessary movement involved if you're just taking glance at these options, and it can get potentially confusing when a spot in the interface sometimes is an action but sometimes it's just a switch depending on which mode you're on which isn't guaranteed to be very evident, i'd imagime)

Did you by chance try to experiment with putting the switch "back" in the same spot the original command to switch to investigation is placed, so it becomes essentially a toggle? Bonus advantage to that would be, such toggle can be then converted to a distinct, fixed button so it's even more obvious clicking on it does something different than making the character speak out a line.

not trying to do your work there, but just a thought.

Yes, actually, we tried several different ways. This is, in fact, quite intuitive for most people... you "move" into the investigate wheel and then you "move back" in the opposite direction.

[Bobad]

joriandrake wrote...

Bobad wrote...

So without reading 15+ pages (+12 since I went to work), what changes to console combat?

read

 You rotter, work was hard!.

Edit:see you shortly if I don't fall asleep.

Modifié par Bobad, 25 juillet 2010 - 12:59 .

[derkaderka-]

David Gaider wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
I was just thinking more along the lines of being able to clearly read all the lines in DAO before choosing- meaning, there were some funny or nasty responses you could see in the dialogue choices for Origins but you were able to appreciate them even if you didn't choose them. With the wheel, you won't have that ability to see what Hawke says exactly or does without committing to the choice.

Ah, I see. Yes, that is indeed true. If you just want to appreciate the full line you do indeed have to select the option.

that was one of my points. hence the reason why i mentioned maybe you guys could give us a "back" button after hearing out one voice response, so you can go back and hear the others before moving on with the game. rather than burdening us the task of saving and reloading up to 6 times each time we see a chat wheel, to get that experience we got from dao. anything less feels like a lesser experience. its a major distinction for dragon age. i do appreciate the writing in dao and i always loved seeing the available chat options. for many, just getting to see them was a big reason why that game is so epic. to see that functionality removed in da2 is the biggest letdown for me. the value of seeing all the options may have been unintended in dao, but it is there and it shouldn't be cast aside without consideration of its value.

i can deal with the single hero, single origin, single race.  i have faith the conversation writing will be better than mass effect. im going to hold my reservations on the art changes til i see some video.

but for me, the major gut check is the chat. i feel like if i have to save and reload to appreciate all the writing put into all the chat options, its crossing over into too much me2 and not enough dao. makes it feel like da2 is being used to test improvements in preparation for me3, rather than being a true dragon age sequel.

Modifié par derkaderka-, 25 juillet 2010 - 01:00 .

[joriandrake]

David Gaider wrote...

Kordaris wrote...
I am surprised you don't see why people reacted so strongly to limiting their choices of playable characters to one in direct contradiction what we have seen in DAO. This is was a total remake of  excellent game we experienced before

Err... yes? Some people do indeed react strongly-- and maybe in the end the sequel's not for them. We have reasons for the changes we made, however, and we don't believe that automatically makes DA2 a lesser game. At this point, I don't think there's a lot of information to go by unless there mere fact of those changes is enough to make up your mind and there's nothing that could possibly be good without them-- in which case there's not much for us to talk about, is there?

Frankly the reaction would be quite different if from the beginning of DAO we would be informed that the next game will not feature the Origins system.

So... you would have liked us to see into the future and warn people that a feature which had complete relevance to the game they're playing might not appear in a future game that they know nothing about yet? To what end?

I fthe story of human Hawke is so important to Dragon Age I can choke it down to not have other origins and races, but I fear they won't return in DA3 neither, this is what worries me and probably many others.

If this game is just like telling the story of Irenicus between BG1 and BG2 than it is OK however

[joriandrake]

Bobad wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

Bobad wrote...

So without reading 15+ pages (+12 since I went to work), what changes to console combat?

read

 You rotter, work was hard!.

Edit:see you shortly if I don't fall asleep.

reading is good, m'kay? :happy:

[metal_dawn]

Kordaris wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

So... you would have liked us to see into the future and warn people that a feature which had complete relevance to the game they're playing might not appear in a future game that they know nothing about yet? To what end?

Ok I will ask you about something but do not treat this as an attack. Sometimes I come as more direct than I should, since English is not my primary language.
Your sentence indicates that the decision to scrap the Origins system came only after DAO was released? Does it mean that initially there was a chance DA2 would feature several choices for characters and their unique background instead of having to be use one with predetermined name race and backstory(refugee from Lothering)? If so why was the decision made to limit player's choice of character?

Likely a corporate/budget/marketing decision.

[joriandrake]

David Gaider wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...
Please don't take it wrong way, but the idea of having a command on one side of the wheel to enter the investigation but then having to use command on opposite side to exit sounds rather awkward as far as UI is concerned. (there's both unnecessary movement involved if you're just taking glance at these options, and it can get potentially confusing when a spot in the interface sometimes is an action but sometimes it's just a switch depending on which mode you're on which isn't guaranteed to be very evident, i'd imagime)

Did you by chance try to experiment with putting the switch "back" in the same spot the original command to switch to investigation is placed, so it becomes essentially a toggle? Bonus advantage to that would be, such toggle can be then converted to a distinct, fixed button so it's even more obvious clicking on it does something different than making the character speak out a line.

not trying to do your work there, but just a thought.

Yes, actually, we tried several different ways. This is, in fact, quite intuitive for most people... you "move" into the investigate wheel and then you "move back" in the opposite direction.

I liked the right-click options in NWN1, I think I like h ow you sneaked back its essence to the dialogie, I just wish the options would write what you say and not just the feel/core of it



ah, and please don't add dialogue interventions like in ME2, you don't know what the character would do or say in those cases and most of the time I didn't agree with them, plus then it would become a western duel with the dialogue as people would try not  to miss the actual dialogue, what lowers the immersion to a point where the player can perhaps not even remember what the was said in the dialogue due to the focusing on clicking at the right time to trigger the action

[MonkMorkins]

Kordaris wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

You guys don't want to hear the basics. You already know the basics.

I am surprised you don't see why people reacted so strongly to limiting their choices of playable characters to one in direct contradiction what we have seen in DAO. This is was a total remake of  excellent game we experienced before
Frankly the reaction would be quite different if from the beginning of DAO we would be informed that the next game will not feature the Origins system.

Does Dragon Age 2 have "Origins" in the title?  No?  There you go. 

I could have called this when they announced Dragon Age: Origins and first discussed the origin stories.  I mean, they NEVER pretended that they intended to keep that going through the entire series.

David, you can correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it pretty much said that DA:O was just the introduction to the world and that later titles would tell different stories in this world?

Mechanically, the origin stories also played a very important role of allowing you to give out masses of lore very quickly without needing to set up an exposition that just says "Yo, here is everything that you need to know about the world.  Blam.  Enjoy this meaty lore sandwich."  Because, honestly, that would have lost a LOT of people..

Modifié par MonkMorkins, 25 juillet 2010 - 01:11 .

[Khayness]

joriandrake wrote...

reading is good, m'kay? :happy:

Tell that to the people who preferred Mass Effect's dialoge system over the Gothic series/The Witcher one

[Onyx Jaguar]

Or tell that to people who preferred the SCUMM games over Zork.

hmm

EDIT:  You have to read the dialogue in the Witcher?

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 25 juillet 2010 - 01:09 .

[tmp7704]

David Gaider wrote...

Yes, actually, we tried several different ways. This is, in fact, quite intuitive for most people... you "move" into the investigate wheel and then you "move back" in the opposite direction.

Ahh i see. Guess i'm just personally too used to concept of checkbox/modal key where you use the same button to enable alternative mode and then hit the same key again to switch it off. The "move/move back" concept doesn't work too well for me when i envision the actual UI element remaining fixed and not changing/move itself... but if you found it work for the most then i suppose it's just personal limitation of mine.

[Bobad]

Ok, ok I have scan read, may have missed something (poss pages 4-10 (:I)), see no defintition, basically will it be hack & slash?, my definition of this being one button to hack and one to slash or will it be the excellant system used for consoles in DA:O, i.e. mapping powewrs to keys with an auto attack, just implimented faster which was all I could glean. (?)

[RurouniSaiya-jin]

Bobad wrote...

Ok, ok I have scan read, may have missed something (poss pages 4-10 (:I)), see no defintition, basically will it be hack & slash?, my definition of this being one button to hack and one to slash or will it be the excellant system used for consoles in DA:O, i.e. mapping powewrs to keys with an auto attack, just implimented faster which was all I could glean. (?)

Like the underlined and bolded part.

IGN Preview wrote...

Different attacks are mapped to the X, Y, and B buttons of your
controller (we were playing on an Xbox 360). Hawk, the hero of the
game, had a typical sword swipe mapped to X, a thrust mapped to Y, and a
twirl that would take down all the enemies around him mapped to B. By
holding the right trigger you can access a second set of attacks, so it
seems you'll have six moves available to you at a time. Each move has a
recharge time, so you can't just keep mashing the X button to chop
through enemies.

Modifié par RurouniSaiya-jin, 25 juillet 2010 - 01:19 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

sounds li9ke origins system except attacks are mapped instead of powers

[MonkMorkins]

Kordaris wrote...


The character creation system was highly praised by those playing DAO. The was nothing indicating it was one time only, and in fact the whole DA was presented as a series and continuation with heavy suggestions that there will be stron carry over.

They specifically added the title "Origins" to the end of it to signify the origin stories, but kept referring to the IP as the Dragon Age IP.  That means that Dragon Age, as an IP, was in no way directly about the ORIGIN stories.  Just that the first game was about that...

Also, everything that I read indicated that, in terms of their forward thinking, they were more interested in the world and lore of Dragon Age(the IP) than they were thinking about the specific tale that was told within Dragon Age: Origins(although that was definitely important to them).  Origins was always just the beginning of our experiences in this world.  That does not mean that subsequent stories would necessarily carry on directly from where Dragon Age: Origins had ended.

Modifié par MonkMorkins, 25 juillet 2010 - 01:26 .

[Lord Gremlin]

RurouniSaiya-jin wrote...

Bobad wrote...

Ok, ok I have scan read, may have missed something (poss pages 4-10 (:I)), see no defintition, basically will it be hack & slash?, my definition of this being one button to hack and one to slash or will it be the excellant system used for consoles in DA:O, i.e. mapping powewrs to keys with an auto attack, just implimented faster which was all I could glean. (?)

Like the underlined and bolded part.

IGN Preview wrote...

Different attacks are mapped to the X, Y, and B buttons of your
controller (we were playing on an Xbox 360). Hawk, the hero of the
game, had a typical sword swipe mapped to X, a thrust mapped to Y, and a
twirl that would take down all the enemies around him mapped to B. By
holding the right trigger you can access a second set of attacks, so it
seems you'll have six moves available to you at a time. Each move has a
recharge time, so you can't just keep mashing the X button to chop
through enemies.

Basically here is described DAO combat system in case of warrior. Journalist probably never opened radial menu.

[Passivehate]

I must say that Mr. Gaider's responses on the forums are the reason I'm still here. I guess I just have faith in the lead writer, despite unfortunate trends.



Though I have a query that needs answering. Are these changes, such as the VO and dialog wheel things that will be present in all future games? Or is the answer based on how well DA2 is received?



In addition, Mr. Gaider, have you ever had the pleasure of playing Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne? I found it to be the closest thing to poetry that I've found in the world of gaming. As such, I'd be curious as to your opinion.