535 réponses à ce sujet

[joriandrake]

DA1 and ME1 appeal perhaps to the same crowd, DA1 and ME2 not so much

[The Console Version is good]

David Gaider wrote...

Kordaris wrote...
Certainly many people believe by now that choosing elf or dwarf and person of non-Hawk surname would benefit their gameplay experience.

People believe that cloaks and horses would benefit their gameplay experience, too. It doesn't necessarily mean they're going to get them.

Is this a confirmaton that there will be no cloaks?

[Onyx Jaguar]

ME 1 really isn't that different from ME 2. This looks more like having elements that are perverse in both ME games implanted in DA

[Onyx Jaguar]

Not really

[AntiChri5]

Kord, grow up, get over yourself.



Seriously, how the hell do people get such a massive sense of entitlement?

[Saibh]

Kordaris wrote...

Saibh wrote...
Not the same fanbase--DAO, ME, and ME2 appeal to the same crowd. ME2 might have broadened that crowd, but it still kept its fanbase, for the most part.

DO,ME maybe. ME2  not so much. And due to what they made in ME2 I am not buying ME3. I don't want an shooter with arcade elements.
And I wouldn't say ME2 and Modern Warfare don't have the similiar fans among them.

ME1 and ME2 have the same fanbase. You do not represent 70% of the gaming crowd. Your opinions are an underwhelming minority.

And can you imagine liking two games of two different genres? I can't. I mean, it's not like I liked DAO, ME1, ME2, Uncharted, Heavy Rain, inFamous, God of War, etc...those people don't exist. And if they do, there aren't many of them.

Modifié par Saibh, 25 juillet 2010 - 03:06 .

[RetryAgain]

munananustaja wrote...

i don't want pausing and fighting strategically is an option, i want it's a must.

I just screamed yes at my computer so many times.

[Saibh]

Kordaris wrote...

Saibh wrote...



ME1 and ME2 have the same fanbase. .

I am afraid you are wrong. There is a decent bunch of people who like ME1 but dislike ME2. Including me, but not excluded to.

Have you knocked all of the doors of ME1 owners and asked them if they liked ME2? No? Well, you know what, ME2 is doing just as well as--no, far better--than ME1 did. I'm going to assume a large portion of these--considering this is a direct sequel and all--played and liked ME1.

[Zanderat]

slimgrin wrote...

It remains to be seen if this 'peak at a time' style of marketing is going to hurt or help game sales in the long run. For now, it just seems to be freaking a lot of people out.

Anyone from Bioware care to comment on this?

After reading that article, consider me freaked out...  It just gets worse and worse, doesn't it?

[joriandrake]

Saibh wrote...

Kordaris wrote...

Saibh wrote...



ME1 and ME2 have the same fanbase. .

I am afraid you are wrong. There is a decent bunch of people who like ME1 but dislike ME2. Including me, but not excluded to.

Have you knocked all of the doors of ME1 owners and asked them if they liked ME2? No? Well, you know what, ME2 is doing just as well as--no, far better--than ME1 did. I'm going to assume a large portion of these--considering this is a direct sequel and all--played and liked ME1.

actually He is right with this, many threads and polls here show that there is a good number of people liking ME1 a lot more than ME2, I myself like the longer story of ME2 better but at the same time I dislike some changes to ME2 like the lack of armor choices for both yourself and companions, or the lack of real loot and inventory, and the simplified/downgraded skills/character leveling

Zanderat wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

It
remains to be seen if this 'peak at a time' style of marketing is going
to hurt or help game sales in the long run. For now, it just seems to be
freaking a lot of people out.

Anyone from Bioware care to
comment on this?

After reading that article, consider me freaked
out...  It just gets worse and worse, doesn't it?

sometimes it sure looks like that

Modifié par joriandrake, 25 juillet 2010 - 03:24 .

[Zanderat]

pmaura wrote...

Its not that Bioware is evil its that bioware is not bioware anymore its EA and EA is a crap company

This.

[Saibh]

joriandrake wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Kordaris wrote...

Saibh wrote...



ME1 and ME2 have the same fanbase. .

I am afraid you are wrong. There is a decent bunch of people who like ME1 but dislike ME2. Including me, but not excluded to.

Have you knocked all of the doors of ME1 owners and asked them if they liked ME2? No? Well, you know what, ME2 is doing just as well as--no, far better--than ME1 did. I'm going to assume a large portion of these--considering this is a direct sequel and all--played and liked ME1.

actually He is right with this, many threads and polls here show that there is a good number of people liking ME1 a lot more than ME2, I myself like the longer story of ME2 better but at the same time I dislike some changes to ME2 like the lack of armor choices for both yourself and companions, or the lack of real loot and inventory, and the simplified/downgraded skills/character leveling

Liking one game better than the other is not the same thing as boycotting a franchise, or swearing it off forever.

Modifié par Saibh, 25 juillet 2010 - 03:33 .

[joriandrake]

well, if one doesn't buy a game it is semi-equal with a boycott anyway, but the tone should stay somewhat polite I agree

EDIT: and take your reply out of my quote

Modifié par joriandrake, 25 juillet 2010 - 03:29 .

[Saibh]

joriandrake wrote...

well, if one doesn't buy a game it is semi-equal with a boycott anyway, but the tone should stay somewhat polite I agree

EDIT: and take your reply out of my quote

Okay? And can you give me accurate figures on people who disliked the game and bought it vs didn't like the game and didn't buy it?

[Lyssistr]

David Gaider wrote...

I'm not certain about the "hack & slash" term, myself. That's one of those loaded terms that tends to apply to games that are light on story and heavy on action-based twitch mechanics, after all, and tends to mean different things to different people.

ok, this indeed is an "overloaded" term - when I referred to hack & slash, I meant combat wise, not light on story.

The action is quicker in DA2 and the controls are designed to be more responsive-- you input a command and something happens immediately. Which is not to say that you're furiously pounding the action button to cue every swing, but simply that the delays caused by animation sequences and "getting into position" are less than they were in DAO. Is that "hack & slash"? You tell me. In some respects you could extend that same appellation to DAO.

 That's fair enough, that happens in hack & slash games but is not enough of a factor to define a game as hack & slash. Also, getting into position is something I like, because it's meaningless to pre-arrange your characters before every combat and it's good that in DA2 this seems to take no time at all.

 Hack & slash combat takes a little different design I guess than turn based combat. Since a reviewer calls DA2 hack & slash, which may not be the case but rather caused by his limited exposure, the question I want to ask the developers is this, when you designed combat mechanics the milestones you wanted to achieve were

a) "tactical combat but get rid of unnecessary things like the player having to pre-position his characters by moving them". Imo the requirement for tactical combat stems from the complexity of the fight mechanics, not just the hitpoints of a boss. The more complex the mechanics, the more need for micromanagement. Something like kotor which stands "in the middle" qualifies as tactical, simply because the game cannot be played through only with hack & slash.


"switch fights purely to action-RPG style" - like e.g. in Demon Stone. In this case fights are designed around real time reactions and therefore tactics need to be somewhat simplified. 

Was the combat we showed in the demo over the top? Certainly. As we've mentioned elsewhere, that part of the tale is a brief glimpse at the "exaggerated" legend of Hawke-- he kills monsters with a single stroke, slicing each one in two with a single slice of his sword, and farts lightning bolts out of his ass. Is the whole game like that? Certainly not-- that's simply part of the set-up.

That's why I asked if it's something like Irenicus's dungeon, this part of BG II was playable in hack & slash fashion - even if the game mechanics philosophy was clearly different. As I said before, having 1-2 chapters in that fashion is fine but I'd want the rest of DA2 to provoke my aged brains a little.

Is it fair for a viewer to say the action was over the top, considering that's all we showed them? Sure. There's plenty more for us to show in the future, I doubt we're really worried about it. This is what we wanted to show right now-- a peek at an early action sequence, something that gave a glimpse at how it's more responsive and visceral, as well as a look at the new art style and the mechanical changes of a single, simple dialogue with the voiced PC.

I, for one have, in every thread fully supported Hawke's VO & prefixed race and new dialogue system. I find these changes rather refreshing and after all changes are needed to keep an IP alive & well. I don't expect/ask you guys to bring me one game per year, where my warden will battle on till the day I retire/pass away, this would be rather repetitive an experience.

 My fear, which I didn't have before this preview, is that DA2 may be designed as a Diablo with party members (combat wise) or a revamped Demon Stone. My "problem" with that approach is that I like Bioware for being Bioware. Much like I don't expect Blizzard to deliver the next RPG with interesting plot & character interactions instead of Bioware, I don't expect Bioware to deliver as good a hack & slash as Blizzard. The reason for this is quite simple, each to his own and the strong points of your team is writing, character interactions and tactical combat etc. You could argue that this is just my personal perception, but I think a survey would show that these are the big assets in Bioware's games.

Is that not what everyone wanted to see? Maybe so. Like I said, I doubt we're really worried about it, considering there's many months left to go. There's still a lot more to show, like "regular" combat and a look at the story, all stuff I'm sure folks who hang out here would be interested to hear more about.  Some people who were here prior to Origins release might probably be experiencing a bit of déjà vu, considering the agonized twistings the forum community went through after every release of information-- which is not to say that DA2 is secretly everything someone here hoped and dreamed it would be, no, simply that you're not seeing the complete picture just yet. Because we're not showing the complete picture just yet. It'll come.

Until then, carry on.

Again, none of these changes worry me, the "hack & slash" comment by the reviewer did. If it is true, it would mean DA2 shifting qualitatively from Bioware's team strong points, not technical updates on a previous game.

This may be too much of a textwall but all I'm trying to say is this: I think releasing a game like Diablo III but this time with companions, when Diablo III is literally around the corner is rather redundant and the effect would be as good as Blizzard trying to release a tactical combat RPG, in both cases I wouldn't hold my breath. Also in both cases, I'd buy the game from the company I know & trust to be pro in the respective subgenre, Bioware in tactical games & Blizzard in hack & slash. 

So this brings back the question:

Is DA2 designed with tactical combat being a necessity for the harder fights with hack & slash easing trash fights and maybe smashing our way through just two chapters?

I interpret your answer, that what the 1UP reviewer saw is not indicative of the whole DA2, as saying that tactical combat is still a core part of DA2, sometimes relaxed to hack & slash in the first chapter and/or a couple of mob packs. Considering that what 1UP said is as controversial as a previewer saying Diablo III is turn based old skool, it's good to see developers jump in and clarify things.

[Zanderat]

Bruce Venne wrote...

The combat presented in the demo is an exaggerated fight.  The reason for it is story-driven.
We want DA2 to have faster, more responsive combat but DA2 will also have the kind of deep, rich and engaging story that BioWare has put into all of your other games.  We are improving the combat, but not at the expense of the story.

So, yes.  It is a hack and slashgame.......  <_<

[Lyssistr]

Saibh wrote...

Have you knocked all of the doors of ME1 owners and asked them if they liked ME2? No? Well, you know what, ME2 is doing just as well as--no, far better--than ME1 did. I'm going to assume a large portion of these--considering this is a direct sequel and all--played and liked ME1.

ME1 vs ME2 can go on and on and doesn't really matter because ME(1/2/3/whatever) offers something no other does, a good sci-fi game, RPG or not, action oriented or not.

On the other hand, a fantasy hack & slash is in clear collision with Diablo III. Had it been '07 this would be as cool, but considering DA2 will be released in '11 (rumored DIII release year), it would remove value from the game in my eyes, while if core mechanics remain tactical DA2 diversifies & distinguishes itself from the rest.

[derkaderka-]

i know im just talking hypothetical here, but if they dumb down the loot in da2 (or numerous other features that may get cut) like they did in me2 from me1 i am going to swear off bioware just on principal.



bioware could have redone some me1 rpg features for me2 but they chose to throw them out completely instead. if this becomes a trend with all their future games its bad news for the rpg genre.



i have to say, me2's dialogue was pathetic, but the story picked up the slack because the action never stopped. rpg took a backseat to action. i like the action elements of me2, but i bought it because it was supposed to be an rpg, but i found that the rpg in me2 sucked. if the same fate comes of dragon age i will be disgusted.



things are getting paper thin in the rpg department. its clear they are catering to an audience that doesn't appreiciate rpg, doesn't mind rpg elements being cut out completely.... as long as the action is good and the story is worth watching... if thats the case they should just take their story telling and put it in an action/adventure game, third person shooter, whatever.. and stop labeling it rpg. theyre making a hybrid genre that doesn't meet the pure genre expectations.



dao was a great rpg. me2 was not a great rpg. i have already made a note that me3 will be a story based action adventure. rpg elements are removed. there is cause for concern when the first news we hear from marketing da2 is how da2 is killing off rpg elements and focued on boosting action elements. its a nightmare. rpg fans are no longer bioware's primary audience, yet again.

[KLUME777]

1UP said "The demo concluded with a giant dragon swooping in to kill off the
remaining goblins and orcs before they overwhelm Hawke and his sister
the Mage."

I dont understand, are there orcs in DA2, it said so as well in the IGN preview, but i thought he didnt know what he was talking about, but its popped up again, is there really orcs in DA2?

[Onyx Jaguar]

I think they are calling them that in order to let their audiences have an idea of what they are. I mean most would know what an Orc is, but not a Hurlock. Anda Hurlock basically is an Orc.

[KLUME777]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I think they are calling them that in order to let their audiences have an idea of what they are. I mean most would know what an Orc is, but not a Hurlock. Anda Hurlock basically is an Orc.

Shouldnt they be talking to the Dragon Age audience, i mean who else reads it, at least put darkspawn in brackets so your not confusing anyone cos thats 2 out of 2 previews that have said orcs and goblins. Darkspawn has not even being mentioned, yet Flemeth was...

[joriandrake]

KLUME777 wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I think they are calling them that in order to let their audiences have an idea of what they are. I mean most would know what an Orc is, but not a Hurlock. Anda Hurlock basically is an Orc.

Shouldnt they be talking to the Dragon Age audience, i mean who else reads it, at least put darkspawn in brackets so your not confusing anyone cos thats 2 out of 2 previews that have said orcs and goblins. Darkspawn has not even being mentioned, yet Flemeth was...

most of the media people who went there probably never played DA