505 réponses à ce sujet

[SirOccam]

filetemo wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

filetemo wrote...

we do not blame him for leaving, but for not returning.

Do you blame the Grey Warden for that, as well?

warden had a greater thing to do, like gathering an army

And how do you know Hawke won't?

[Lord_Saulot]

filetemo wrote...

the warden came back and killed arl howe, thus avenging his family. And in the process beheaded an archdemon. Hawke was 1000 miles away growing his beard

Because you surely know that Hawke won't do anything courageous or impressive at all during the game's ten your time line....

[Riona45]

filetemo wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Kordaris wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

I, on the other hand, believe Thedas is big enough to have more than just one hero.

And what is this peasant here going to do, since OUR hero already defeated the Blight?

What exactly do you think the Warden would have done if there was a second game about him/her? The Blight was already defeated, after all.

I just want to say I like your answer even better than mine.

the warden could have found morrigan, helped dwarves recover lost thaigs, cleaned the deep roads, foresee a qunari invasion and find the lair of the remaining old gods destroying them forever with the help of the god child.

for instance

If you can understand why the Warden can do things not having anything to do with the Blight, then it shouldn't be difficult to imagine Hawke doing things that have nothing to do with the Blight.  That was Saibh's point.

[Rogue Unit]

filetemo wrote...

the warden came back and killed arl howe, thus avenging his family. And in the process beheaded an archdemon. Hawke was 1000 miles away growing his beard

And doing some heroic deed that got him named Champion apparently.

Modifié par Rogue Unit, 25 juillet 2010 - 12:16 .

[Kritanakom]

Anathemic wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

I can garuntee in DA2 Hawke will not go back to Lothering and kill those specific darkspawn that destroyed the village

So? Cousland Jr. was still a coward for running away. Who cares if he grew up to defeat the Blight and take revenge on Howe? What makes someone a coward is one choice at one particular instance in their life and absolutely nothing else can redeem it. This is why Hawke is a coward.

I care, and alot of people liked the Warden's role in defeating the Blight before it even begun. So Cousland is a not a coward and Hawke is? Because Cousland redeemed that instance of his life (Howe taking over Amaranthine and killing family) by killing Howe him/herself and reclaim Highever later on. So, Hawke is a coward...

Are you being sarcastic? Because we have no idea whether or not Hawke grows up to kill the darkspawn who razed Lothering.

[Riona45]

In Exile wrote...

SirShreK wrote...
I think I understand Bioware's new clientale much better now..

No, I don't count. I've been buying their games since NWN and KoTOR.

I think maybe now's a good time to reveal that I've been buying BW's games since the original Baldur's Gate.

Not everyone who is looking forward to DA2 is a "new client," sorry.

[Captain Jazz]

filetemo wrote...

this is the problem: coherency. If kirkwall and hawke had such an awesome story during DAO, how come we never heard about them before? If we are going to live a parallel story I'd rather play as somebody I met in DAO or somebody I heard about.

DA:O probably spans a year, maybe a year and a half. DA2 looks like it's going to span 10 years... by the end of DA:O, Hawke is probably just a rising, vaguely helpful nobody.

[filetemo]

can't you guys listen? the problem is not hawke fleeing, the problem is he is doing somewhere else while others get the job done in ferelden, making us not care at whatever his rise to power is. Because as powerful he may get, he should kiss the feet of those who killed the archdemon and allowed him to be whoever he may become. His "rise to power" happens because my warden is kicking ass and taking names.

[Anathemic]

Kritanakom wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

I can garuntee in DA2 Hawke will not go back to Lothering and kill those specific darkspawn that destroyed the village

So? Cousland Jr. was still a coward for running away. Who cares if he grew up to defeat the Blight and take revenge on Howe? What makes someone a coward is one choice at one particular instance in their life and absolutely nothing else can redeem it. This is why Hawke is a coward.

I care, and alot of people liked the Warden's role in defeating the Blight before it even begun. So Cousland is a not a coward and Hawke is? Because Cousland redeemed that instance of his life (Howe taking over Amaranthine and killing family) by killing Howe him/herself and reclaim Highever later on. So, Hawke is a coward...

Are you being sarcastic? Because we have no idea whether or not Hawke grows up to kill the darkspawn who razed Lothering.

Nope, I 100% garuntee Hawke will not be able to kill the darkspawn who sacked Lothering, why? The Warden alraedy did, well if not the Warden then atleast his/her army did.

[filetemo]

Riona45 wrote...


If you can understand why the Warden can do things not having anything to do with the Blight, then it shouldn't be difficult to imagine Hawke doing things that have nothing to do with the Blight.  That was Saibh's point.

warden does things, at least, darkspawn related. Finding an old god and slaining him is even more important than defeating a blight because ends the next one.

[Rogue Unit]

filetemo wrote...

can't you guys listen? the problem is not hawke fleeing, the problem is he is doing somewhere else while others get the job done in ferelden, making us not care at whatever his rise to power is. Because as powerful he may get, he should kiss the feet of those who killed the archdemon and allowed him to be whoever he may become. His "rise to power" happens because my warden is kicking ass and taking names.

I guess your Warden should be kissing Duncan's feet then huh?

[In Exile]

Anathemic wrote...
I care, and alot of people liked the Warden's role in defeating the Blight before it even begun. So Cousland is a not a coward and Hawke is? Because Cousland redeemed that instance of his life (Howe taking over Highever and killing family) by killing Howe him/herself and reclaim Highever later on. So, Hawke is a coward...

Edit: Meant Highever instead of Amaranthine

You're right. I might have a leg to stand on if Hawke became a legendary hero or something, maybe a champion of a city (no - you're right, that just sounds lame). He just ran away and died in a ditch, so he was totally a coward.

Never amounted to anything, that Hawke. Absolute did not become importat at all to the history of Thedas. That's why Bioware even said: in this game, you are irrelevant, and our gameplay is centered around the running-and-begging-for-your-life mechanic.

[Daerog]

Riona45 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

SirShreK wrote...
I think I understand Bioware's new clientale much better now..

No, I don't count. I've been buying their games since NWN and KoTOR.

I think maybe now's a good time to reveal that I've been buying BW's games since the original Baldur's Gate.

Not everyone who is looking forward to DA2 is a "new client," sorry.

That wasn't SirShrek's point. He was just pointing out that the old school rpg, like PS:T, is considered old and boring to the "new clientale" and BW is getting more focused on them. He didn't say old clientale wasn't looking forward to DA2.

[Rogue Unit]

In Exile I don't think theres any point in explaining and debating anymore. These people are way too emotionally attached to their Wardens and are bitter about Hawke and are determined to stay that way.

Modifié par Rogue Unit, 25 juillet 2010 - 12:23 .

[In Exile]

Anathemic wrote...
Nope, I 100% garuntee Hawke will not be able to kill the darkspawn who sacked Lothering, why? The Warden alraedy did, well if not the Warden then atleast his/her army did.

Remind me, did that happen before or after Denerim was conquered by the darkspawn, when they cut a swath throught he bannorn and killed everything in their way? 

If it was after, was it after all the darkspawn in Denerim immediately retreated with the death of the archdemon, saving the lives of the Grey Warden allies who would have been overun had the archdemon survived to continue leading the horde?

Yeah, that Warden, my favourite part about his killing the darkspawn in Lothering was how he lured them into a false sense of security by allowing them to sack the village in the first place, and then sack the capital of Ferelden. My next favourite part was how the next Warden plan was killing the archdemon to scatter the horde instead of kill them all.

[Anathemic]

In Exile wrote...

Anathemic wrote...
I care, and alot of people liked the Warden's role in defeating the Blight before it even begun. So Cousland is a not a coward and Hawke is? Because Cousland redeemed that instance of his life (Howe taking over Highever and killing family) by killing Howe him/herself and reclaim Highever later on. So, Hawke is a coward...

Edit: Meant Highever instead of Amaranthine

You're right. I might have a leg to stand on if Hawke became a legendary hero or something, maybe a champion of a city (no - you're right, that just sounds lame). He just ran away and died in a ditch, so he was totally a coward.

Never amounted to anything, that Hawke. Absolute did not become importat at all to the history of Thedas. That's why Bioware even said: in this game, you are irrelevant, and our gameplay is centered around the running-and-begging-for-your-life mechanic.

This is why these debates/arguments never go anywhere because one always has to resort to sarcasm, if you look at all my posts not one of them were sarcastic.

And if you werent sarcastic, well thank you for agreeing for me but you have the info wrong on BioWare's statement that Hawke is ireelevant and the gamplay is centered around the running-and-begging-for-your-life mechanic

[filetemo]

Rogue Unit wrote...

filetemo wrote...

can't you guys listen? the problem is not hawke fleeing, the problem is he is doing somewhere else while others get the job done in ferelden, making us not care at whatever his rise to power is. Because as powerful he may get, he should kiss the feet of those who killed the archdemon and allowed him to be whoever he may become. His "rise to power" happens because my warden is kicking ass and taking names.

I guess your Warden should be kissing Duncan's feet then huh?

he allowed me to be a hero and save ferelden. nothing to thank in the personal aspect. Infertility, shortened lifespan, killed family...

I thank him but he didn't slain the archdemon for me, I did it so some sorry ass hiding 1000 miles ago can become champion of whateverland

Modifié par filetemo, 25 juillet 2010 - 12:24 .

[Riona45]

In Exile wrote...

Anathemic wrote...

I can garuntee in DA2 Hawke will not go back to Lothering and kill those specific darkspawn that destroyed the village

So? Cousland Jr. was still a coward for running away. Who cares if he grew up to defeat the Blight and take revenge on Howe? What makes someone a coward is one choice at one particular instance in their life and absolutely nothing else can redeem it. This is why Hawke is a coward.

I completely agree.  And, my mage helped Jowan, which indirectly resulted in the problems at Redcliffe.  That is unforgivable, even if she did stop the Blight.  In the end, she wasn't a true hero.

[Rogue Unit]

Hawke isn't a Warden. It's not his job to fight the Archdemon.

[Anathemic]

In Exile wrote...

Anathemic wrote...
Nope, I 100% garuntee Hawke will not be able to kill the darkspawn who sacked Lothering, why? The Warden alraedy did, well if not the Warden then atleast his/her army did.

Remind me, did that happen before or after Denerim was conquered by the darkspawn, when they cut a swath throught he bannorn and killed everything in their way? 

If it was after, was it after all the darkspawn in Denerim immediately retreated with the death of the archdemon, saving the lives of the Grey Warden allies who would have been overun had the archdemon survived to continue leading the horde?

Yeah, that Warden, my favourite part about his killing the darkspawn in Lothering was how he lured them into a false sense of security by allowing them to sack the village in the first place, and then sack the capital of Ferelden. My next favourite part was how the next Warden plan was killing the archdemon to scatter the horde instead of kill them all.

It was after, and yes the Warden did kill the darkspawn who sacked Lothering, being that all darkspawn where either marching towards Denerim or tracking down the Warden (Redcliffe seige). So either the Warden killed them at Denerim or Redcliffe. Since the darkspawn who sacked Lothering were at the front of the horde (logically being their first attack) they would be at the front of the Horde and if so when the WArden charged at Denerim they would be furthur in toward Fort Drakon, or maybe if the darkspawn who sacked Lothering where in the back of the horde they would still be killed by the Warden's initial charge.

And the Warden didn't leave Lothering in a false sense of security, I recall the villagers wanting to kill the Warden for monies.

[filetemo]

"Hawke isn't a Warden. It's not his job to fight the Archdemon. "

thast's why we don't care about him

Modifié par filetemo, 25 juillet 2010 - 12:29 .

[Jonnybear84]

Kordaris wrote...

I think Bioware made a mistake with DA2.  Do not treat
this as flaming or angry response-I will try to analyze coldly why some of us
feel distaste for the DA2.

Here is what it is-the DAO had you identify strongly with your Warden, his
story, choices, family, traits. This was covered over by net system even, where
you had achievements listed. You were then tempted by having your save files
stored. Most people probably expected that they will carry over their character
to the next game. Even if that wouldn't happen we were attached to our
achievements and adventures and hero.

As far as I'm aware, you do get to import those save game files into DA2 and choices you made will be reflected in some way.

Now-if Bioware would have started DA2 in similar way as DAO-people would
perhaps complain that they aren't playing a hero they liked before, but would
get over it, once they would start their adventures.

But Bioware made a mistake-they replaced OUR HERO with THEIR HERO.

This is what makes people angry. We are told that Hawke is a legend, we are
told to be amazed by him. But we already know the TRUE HERO. OUR Warden.
So a lot of people feel angry that their achievements and tasks are simply
ignored and some newcomer, a guy who FLED the blight like a coward, is now
presented as some legend, while their Warden remains ignored.

Your achievements in the first game as the warden won't be ignored (why bother having an import save game feature if events in first game are to be ignored?).

Fled like a coward? you havent played the game so you don't know the circumstances under which Hawke and co end up leaving lothering....maybe they have to fight their way out? maybe they stick around to fight and basically end up being rescued from certain death by Flemeth (think i read this somewhere but can't remember where so if someone could confirm that would be great) or maybe he leaves/flees Lothering because he wants to protect his Sister and insists on escorting her out of there or basically any number of possibilities.....hell you could even be right and it was just pure cowardice and the story revolves around Hawke changing from a common selfish coward into a legendary hero, I'm basically pulling these theories out of my ass because we (this includes you!!) just don't know enough yet to decide one way or another.

Frankly I wonder while Bioware didn't think of this. It's rather difficult
to change, and I doubt it will happen. Bioware might have decided to put their
artistic vision over the expectations of players. Rather than player's story we
are playing Bioware's story. This creates resentment and detachment feelings in
many.

I will concede this point to you, having only one type (Human) available might be a little restrictive but thankfully for me I fall into the category as one of those players who usually plays Human anyway...at least on a first playthrough. (Don't ask me why, i guess I just find it easier to identify with the character I'm playing). as for the voiced protagonist I can safely say I've enjoyed games like DA:O, BG and NVN as well as games like the Witcher and Mass Effect so my only concern for DA2 in this reguard would be Hawkes VA....I hope to god its a decent actor/actress.

Now I don't expect Bioware to change the game-too late for that.

But I am surely dissapointed and my hopes for sequal of DAO have been dashed. This is not what I and others were expecting.
Hawke evokes no connection to my former adventures, his name sounds so common and boring it is almost insulting. His artistic portayal makes me cringe(sorry) and his beard for a iconic hero is repulsive. I can't think of him of any other way as a coward who fled the Blight. Sorry again.

Try as I might I can't see myself spending money on Hawke. I will probably borrow the game from a friend,but wouldn't want to spend money on it.

My hopes havent been dashed....yet. Hawke doesn't evoke a connection to former adventures...... yet. In game bioware might have found a way to do just this either through the codex or meeting characters from the first game or just hearing gossip off the locals about events in DA:O and DA:A until we learn more info we simply don't know yet.

His artistic portrayal is in line with the new artistic direction they are taking...admitedley I'm not too fond of it myself, any move towards more cartoonish graphics no matter how minor is a no no for me but thats just my personal taste and is not enough to put me off a purchase.

As for the beard and name...well I quite like Hawke as a name to be honest, I suppose its just personal taste, they can't please everyone, and if you don't like the beard then don't have one, you can still customise his/her appearance just the same as in DA:O.

[Daerog]

filetemo wrote...

can't you guys listen? the problem is not hawke fleeing, the problem is he is doing somewhere else while others get the job done in ferelden, making us not care at whatever his rise to power is. Because as powerful he may get, he should kiss the feet of those who killed the archdemon and allowed him to be whoever he may become. His "rise to power" happens because my warden is kicking ass and taking names.

Warden saved the world and is better than Hawke. Totally agree. No one will be as amazing as the Warden, who stopped a Blight in a year or less.
Still, given that, I wouldn't make the Warden someone to compare all heroes to, since it was quite amazing. Hawke can still be amazing and a true hero, not "saved the world" hero, but "saved the kingdom" or whatever hero. I don't think Hawke should be dismissed simply because he isn't as amazing as the Warden, he still has his merits and I don't consider him a coward. Comparing the two is like comparing Sauron to Morgoth, two completely different levels of power.