505 réponses à ce sujet

[Saibh]

Anathemic wrote...

Saibh wrote...

You know, it really isn't. Plenty of people figured that the next game wouldn't concern the Warden--we had hints of it in the game, in these forums. You guessed wrong, you got the hints wrong, and I'm sorry you feel cheated, but you'll just have to deal with it. You aren't entitled to anything.

You can certainly make suggestions or complaints, but the devs choose whether to listen to them. If enough people have the same suggestion or complaint, the chances are raised whether they'll be implemented. You are a strict minority--and not a very eloquent one, at that. Perhaps if your arguments had stronger logic, and more facts backing them, rather than "I don't like how I don't think Hawke sounds like a fantasy hero's name", the developers and your fellow forumites would be more willing to listen.

 Which is what people are doing, so why state this if you come here and try to end it? Why do people always state this and be hypocrticial about it?
We are all entitled to our opinions, and so we voice them, trying to stop them by saying "Back up your argument" (even though that would be better) is jsut being damn hypocritical. You can't say "You are welcome to make suggestions/complaints" and in the next post say "Alright this is stupid, get a better argument kthxbye"

I'm sorry, I should have defined "complaints" or "suggestions":

1. They should be reasonable.
2. They shouldn't be filled with rantings.

That pretty much covers it, yeah. To most people, listening to a complaint is not the same as listening to a diatribe about the most petty, inane things you can think of.

[Faust1979]

I don't remember any comments about the warden being in other games. I always understood it as a new character with each game which makes more sense to me.

[Saibh]

filetemo wrote...

Kordaris wrote...

Aratham Darksight wrote...

Here is a comment on the topic by lead writer David Gaider, from 8 months ago.

The one where he simply writes that DA will focus on other events rather than Blight? Well that was obvious wasn't it?

there was another comment made by Gaider months ago where he stated as BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that in a direct sequel the main character has to be the same because you've already invested a lot on him emotionally.

See how several months change things? Speaking of Gaider, his postings on the forums have been converting from developer insight to a slightly more corporative blabbering tone. He used to speak about plot and writing, now he's all about cutting costs and mainstream market oriented decisions

He can't tell you anything about the game. Sorry, you can't question him on motivations or characters because he can't answer you. He still answers some other questions about DAO, though. As you can imagine, he's probably answered and re-answered the same questions over and over.

Besides that, unless you can find the post where he was being "blatantly obvious", it didn't happen.

[Daerog]

filetemo wrote...

there was another comment made by Gaider months ago where he stated as BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that in a direct sequel the main character has to be the same because you've already invested a lot on him emotionally.

See how several months change things? Speaking of Gaider, his postings on the forums have been converting from developer insight to a slightly more corporative blabbering tone. He used to speak about plot and writing, now he's all about cutting costs and mainstream market oriented decisions

Ser Gaider responds to the forums, and these forums seem to be more about the gameplay and changes, and not questions about lore. So, he responds to the gameplay questions and issues with changes.
I greatly appreciate his postings, as he seems far more reasonable than many of those reactionary posts some people make.
Aaahhhh, it's like the old DA:O forums all over again!

[Sable Rhapsody]

SirShreK wrote...

My real fear after reading the game-play reviews is that the game has be consolised. This is NEVER good, especially for RPG gamers. I apologize to console gamers, but an RPG is not the same as an action game. It is never TOO dynamic, and NEVER compromises game-play elements such as number of spells, skills or number of combat options for supposed Adrenaline rushes. I have known what playing "Invisible War" after "Deus Ex" was... I think the same will happen for DA2 when compared to DA:O.

The reviews have all been based on the Xbox version.  And I agree, there are huge differences from playing on console to playing on PC.  The platforms have their own strengths and weaknesses, and any game that's multi-platform has to take that into account.

That being said, the devs have said on the forums that a) they're keeping the tactical elements of the PC version and the demo was deliberately easy and over-the-top.  Not sure WHY they didn't make a representative demo, but meh.

[Faust1979]

the OP said something in his post they replaced our hero with their hero! not really they replaced their hero with another one and they will let you define their hero like they did with the warden who was still they're hero

[Danjaru]

I just hope our Warden has some impact on the game (other than the obvious, you know, the things he did in DA:O). That you meet him/her or see him/her or whatever. Although that would require for them to give the Warden a voice, there's like 10, 5 female and 5 male, alot of voice actors for a sort of cameo or maybe bigger role so I don't see it happening, but one can only hope, I would hate for our Warden to only be references in stories or some town yeller going "this just in, Warden defeated blight!!".. ewww..

[In Exile]

Anathemic wrote...
Of course the Warden is BioWare's hero, and no you weren't a Grey Warden who happened to be a mage, because you didn't start off as a Grey Warden. In the mage origin you are a mage who is recruited into the Grey Wardens not start off as being a Grey Warden mage.

And then you had to adopt the identity of a Warden. There is no dialogue to deny this. You are always identified as a Grey Warden. Your dialogue options are centered around I  Wardens. In the seductive nightmare provided to you by the sloth demon, your desired dream is the end of the blight. Not freedom for the mages, not anything other than Duncan being alive and the end of the Blight.

The writers absolutely try to force you to internalize this role.

Sure in the end you had to be a Grey Warden, but that's what all the origin stories in DA:O are, the person the character was before being a Grey Warden, either forced or accepted. Yes the Warden is pre-determined and railroaded but it is much wider that say the character Hawke, why?

The game gives you few options to fight against your chains.

Well Hawke is not an ambigious title like the Warden, so off the bat you are Hawke, and what's more you are a human, there's no elf or dwarf Hawkes, there's only one Hawke and that Hawke is human. What is more, Hawke is not a title is a predetermiend surname, so the character is already forced into the family of Hawke.
Sure in DA:O you had predetermiend surnames (which sounded honestly better and fitted the Dragon Age genre) but you had the ability to 'choose' the surname/path you wanted to embark in, which is a main factor in a RPG, choice. Basically in the creation of Hawke I can only say the only thing you can change is the class/gender/appearence.

You had forced families in all DA origins. I don't see how getting to choose which name and family you're being railroaded in makes you less railroaded.

The title of the Warden is hardcore railroading because it forces you to identify with being a Grey Warden. I'm not allowed to demand that people call me Lord Cousland and point out how

[Riona45]

Kordaris wrote...

This is what makes people angry. We are told that Hawke is a legend, we are
told to be amazed by him. But we already know the TRUE HERO. OUR Warden.

I, on the other hand, believe Thedas is big enough to have more than just one hero.

[Anathemic]

Saibh wrote...

I'm sorry, I should have defined "complaints" or "suggestions":

1. They should be reasonable.
2. They shouldn't be filled with rantings.

That pretty much covers it, yeah. To most people, listening to a complaint is not the same as listening to a diatribe about the most petty, inane things you can think of.

Off the Merrian-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, Tenth Edition
complaint/n/: 1: Expression of grief, pain, or dissatisfaction
2: something that is the cause of protest or outcry

Nothing in there states that a complaint has to orderly or reasonable. Sure it will make it much easier, but there's nothing to state that a complaint has to "be this exact way" or "must follow this procedure".
To get a dev's attention they have to be reasonable and not filled with rantings, but sitll you can't force on how a person does a complaint. Everyone has free will everyone has a right to express their opinion however they see fit.

[SirOccam]

Kordaris wrote...

But I am surely dissapointed and my hopes for sequal of DAO have been dashed. This is not what I and others were expecting.
Hawke
evokes no connection to my former adventures, his name sounds so common
and boring it is almost insulting. His artistic portayal makes me
cringe(sorry) and his beard for a iconic hero is repulsive. I can't
think of him of any other way as a coward who fled the Blight. Sorry
again.

The problem here is you have no perspective. You are taking the almost negligible information we have and treating it as though it encapsulates the entire game.

1. Who cares what his name is? The first couple of times I played through DA:O, I didn't even KNOW what my character's last name WAS. It's just...not important. We just happen to know what it is, so it's being treated like some massively profound insight into his character and the game as a whole.

2. You will be able to change the appearance of Hawke; you know that, right? Don't like the beard? Don't have one. In fact, if you play a female Hawke, I'd say it's a pretty strong bet that having a beard won't even be an option.
3. Not being able to imagine anyone fleeing a massive Blight without being a coward is your failing, not BioWare's. You're only giving yourself reasons to hate it. You can't hate Hawke for being a coward if you allow for any possibility of him NOT being cowardly, so the simple answer is to just take it for granted that he is a coward. Fleeing a Blight is NORMAL behavior. Staying to fight, sure I guess you could call it heroic, but it's also suicidal, and basically just stupid.

Kordaris wrote...

Why not give it the benefit of the doubt?

Sorry but  I can't see myself playing somebody like Hawke. At least enough to spend my money on it.

What exactly does "somebody like Hawke" even MEAN? You have no IDEA what he's like, probably because you haven't had a chance to make that decision! All you know is that he's a human. Wow, such a rigidly pre-defined character!

Modifié par SirOccam, 24 juillet 2010 - 10:50 .

[Saibh]

Kordaris wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

I, on the other hand, believe Thedas is big enough to have more than just one hero.

And what is this peasant here going to do, since OUR hero already defeated the Blight?

What exactly do you think the Warden would have done if there was a second game about him/her? The Blight was already defeated, after all.

[Daerog]

Sable Rhapsody wrote...

That being said, the devs have said on the forums that a) they're keeping the tactical elements of the PC version and the demo was deliberately easy and over-the-top.  Not sure WHY they didn't make a representative demo, but meh.

Because they want the controversy? They take great pleasure in freaking out their fanbase? Some of the old previews for DA:O mentioned that it was hard (really, it was hard for some gamer people, wow) so they took pity on the reviewers and gave them an easy scene to demo? They wished to greatly highlight the changes in combat (faster reaction, more gore)? Pick one or all of the above, these are the likely reasons.

[Faust1979]

Kordaris wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

I, on the other hand, believe Thedas is big enough to have more than just one hero.

And what is this peasant here going to do, since OUR hero already defeated the Blight?

there can be a lot of power play and political intrigue which is what I'm hoping for. There is always something going on in a large world. It doesn't always have to be centered around some great evil

[Herr Uhl]

Kordaris wrote...

Riona45 wrote...

I, on the other hand, believe Thedas is big enough to have more than just one hero.

And what is this peasant here going to do, since OUR hero already defeated the Blight?

We don't know yet. But there is more stuff to Thedas as a setting than darkspawn.

[Erebusd13]

I think part of the reason the names didn't bother people in the first one was because of the title of Warden...you almost never heard the actual family surname...in fact the only one from the game I actually remember is Cousland. It easier to think of your character as only possessing the name you have given them when they are only addressed by their title. It goes towards suspension of disbelief when one only hears the character's title it is easier to think they are still playing the own character Oscar the Terrible or whatever rather than the named protagonist. With a name like Hawke I know there is no way I'll be able to play the character as anything other than an archer (or is spiked shoulderpads are available a bombabstic professional wrestler).

[Riona45]

derkaderka- wrote...

bioware should expect old school gamers to be upset considering dao was dedicated to them. the rpg roots are being tossed out in da2.

I actually play tabletop games, and I am looking forward to DA2.  There is no solid evidence, in my opinion, that what makes a game a roleplaying game is being tossed out for DA2.

[Anathemic]

In Exile wrote...

Anathemic wrote...
Of course the Warden is BioWare's hero, and no you weren't a Grey Warden who happened to be a mage, because you didn't start off as a Grey Warden. In the mage origin you are a mage who is recruited into the Grey Wardens not start off as being a Grey Warden mage.

And then you had to adopt the identity of a Warden. There is no dialogue to deny this. You are always identified as a Grey Warden. Your dialogue options are centered around I  Wardens. In the seductive nightmare provided to you by the sloth demon, your desired dream is the end of the blight. Not freedom for the mages, not anything other than Duncan being alive and the end of the Blight.

The writers absolutely try to force you to internalize this role.

Sure in the end you had to be a Grey Warden, but that's what all the origin stories in DA:O are, the person the character was before being a Grey Warden, either forced or accepted. Yes the Warden is pre-determined and railroaded but it is much wider that say the character Hawke, why?

The game gives you few options to fight against your chains.

Well Hawke is not an ambigious title like the Warden, so off the bat you are Hawke, and what's more you are a human, there's no elf or dwarf Hawkes, there's only one Hawke and that Hawke is human. What is more, Hawke is not a title is a predetermiend surname, so the character is already forced into the family of Hawke.
Sure in DA:O you had predetermiend surnames (which sounded honestly better and fitted the Dragon Age genre) but you had the ability to 'choose' the surname/path you wanted to embark in, which is a main factor in a RPG, choice. Basically in the creation of Hawke I can only say the only thing you can change is the class/gender/appearence.

You had forced families in all DA origins. I don't see how getting to choose which name and family you're being railroaded in makes you less railroaded.

The title of the Warden is hardcore railroading because it forces you to identify with being a Grey Warden. I'm not allowed to demand that people call me Lord Cousland and point out how

But the Warden is who DA:O is centered around, and yes i know the Hawke is who DA2 is centered on. But even if the Warden is restrictive, it is still an ambigious title, not like Hawke which is not ambigious at all. 
Yes you had forced families in DA:O but you had a choice to choose them, choose whichever is in to your liking. In DA2 you can't choose which family name you wanted to your liking, but you are forced into Hawke. And in DA:O you weren't refered to your last name you are referred to as the ambigious title of Warden. In DA2 I 100% garuntee that you will be refereed to as 'Hawke' for a majority if not half the game.

[hozboo]

dfgsdgfsdg