581 réponses à ce sujet

[Sparda Stonerule]

I would contend that having fun with him would be putting forward valid arguments himself. Besides closely look at his arguments. When he is arguing things he never insults anyone, but when he isn't arguing with people he calls them idiots and tells them to put forth evidence to back up arguments.



Like I said I'm even on your side and I can honestly say you aren't really helping.

[RiouHotaru]

smudboy wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...

smudboy wrote...
Dude, I have read your posts.  You have NO ARGUMENT.  You're wasting your breath.

Here's what a plot hole is.  There are other reasons.  But these are relevant to the point I'm making:
-(e.g. "I've tried everything I can think of..." to keep critics from asking why a particular action was not taken).
-Characters ignoring or avoiding obvious solutions to their problems, provided those solutions are obvious to the characters, and not just the viewers.

Arguing with you is like arguing with a brick wall. I 100% agree that it is a waste of breath.   Do yourself a favor and look up "Confirmation bias."  Then look in the mirror. 

You do amuse me to no end though.  Narcissistic much?

When an argument is clear, simple and concise, with easily observable evidence, I tend to believe it.

You can call that whatever you like.

As soon as you have an argument, please make it.  If not, please shut up.

So why is whe we've made clear and concise arguments as to why mining the relay doesn't make sense you just ignore us or just rehash your original argument and say we're still wrong?  In fact we're using the same evidence as you are and just coming to a different conclusion because well, the evidence supports our theory too.  However, you seem to just handwave it, say we're doing it wrong and ignore us.  Heck, you've done this a lot.  You almost never seem willing to concede that the opposing side's arguments have any merit half the time, and when you do, it barely gets any mention.

[theelementslayer]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

I would contend that having fun with him would be putting forward valid arguments himself. Besides closely look at his arguments. When he is arguing things he never insults anyone, but when he isn't arguing with people he calls them idiots and tells them to put forth evidence to back up arguments.

Like I said I'm even on your side and I can honestly say you aren't really helping.

Nah Ive argued with him before, its great fun but once you have pulled his argument from under him he stops and starts with the name calling. 

[Sparda Stonerule]

smudboy wrote...

Considering the speculation on the core in the first place, the lack of time to grant to the "Suicide Mission" for exposition, it's anyone's guess what the safe zone is, how it came about and what's inside it, aside from that black hole.  I do not find it logical, though, that the enemy would be traveling one way with relays, and the other way with FTL.  It doesn't explain their rather quick collection methods.

http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Mass_Relay
Remember there's only primary and secondary relays, and both link to other relays.  Maybe the Omega-4 doesn't?  It's not explained.  Although at that point in the narrative, logic and story cohesion are pretty much gone.

I don't think that's inherently true. The Collectors were made by the Reapers, so who knows exactly how they get around. Their FTL could be way better than ours. It probably is but speculating on that is just that, speculation.

I do not think the narrative and story cohesion was gone. From what I can tell everyone has a reason to be on Shepard's crew except for one person. Thane Krios is the only man I see as kind of... not useful. Mordin is there because he is a brilliant scientist who makes a counter measure for the seeker swarms. Jacob and Miranda are part of the Lazerus cell, so they are defaulted (although they can both be Fire Team leaders). Okeer was supposed to be recruited, and that's because he had Collector tech. However we get Grunt since Okeer dies, and Grunt turns out to be a really good fighter. Jack is a powerful biotic, one that TIM knows of. She is capable and strong, if not a little crazy. Archangel is a powerful fighter who made a team to combat Omega's mercs. He's evidently a good leader and would be a good asset. Tali is a Tech expert and already proved herself during Shepard's pursuit of Saren. Plus TIM is interested in Quarians anyway. Samara is a powerful and experienced Biotic. Legion is kind of a coincidence since he was searching for Shepard, but he's smart and a tech expert. Even Kasumi is a master tech expert, and Zaeed us a powerful and well known merc. Both good assets. Then we have Thane, all I can see is that he should be good at infiltration, except that he's a bitotic, and not a very strong one like Jack or Samara. 

So from my point of View Thane is the only real "Why are you here?" in the group, even though I always use him and Legion. Besides the main reason Shepard isn't focusing on the Reapers is because there are no other active Reapers out there. Harbinger is the only Reaper active and doing something. We know this because at the very beginning TIM suggests that the Reapers may have something to do with the missing colonies. Time even says if Shepard doesn't find any evidence and isn't convinced he can leave if he so chooses. Then Shepard finds out about the Collectors and decides to investigate. It turns out TIM was right about the Collectors being tied to the Reapers. So at the time there is no other Reaper to investigate since none of them are active.

Fortunately raiding the Collector base got EDI into their systems and seemingly allowed you to access data related to Harbinger. Sure it's a coincidence, but a lot of things in Mass Effect 1 were a coincidence as well. I mean would you really rather have the story go for the cliche of; Since I know the threat I need to find a way to stop it. Well lets follow these three leads that all point to this place. Oh look the place is crawling with ancient and dangerous enemies. Oh joy I found a device that can kill Reapers.

To me the situation is much more believable because Shepard can't study Reapers unless there are Reapers around. The closest thing he has are the Collectors which are constructs of the Reapers.

Modifié par Sparda Stonerule, 29 juillet 2010 - 04:24 .

[Throw_this_away]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Well to be fair he wasn't calling you a blind idiot. He was heavily implying you were.

Besides calling his character into question doesn't make a valid argument. As a matter of fact your argument is worse than his simply because you personally insult him several times. Why do that? I know Smud likes the game he just has issues with it.

My point about the confirmation bias is that arguing with him is like arguing with a brick wall.  As you realize, logic is not going to win him over.  Nor will persistance.  He can't see two sides.  Or if he does, he would prever to ignore it and have fun arguing.  Arguing is fun.  Agreeing is not.  

I send him insults because he plays from the same deck.     

That being said I'm sure there are better ways to handle the Collectors, but there were better ways to handle Saren too. *shrugs*

The truth is that this is a game.  This is a story.  A story has been greated in an attempt to make the game fun for the average gamer (the average gamer does not disect plot to this level). 

If ME2 was one big stakeout... it would be both silly, and boring, even if it were a more logical step.  Even if the collector ship were caught... and used as research for IFF travel to get to the base... could shep, Miranda, and Jacob take the base alone?  Does Cerberus want to sacrafice the resources to take the base by a direct battle of attrition using an army?  That might give the Collectors time to just selft destruct the base... and nothing would be gained.  

And as you pointed out... we have no evidence of a relay to get back to the OMega relay... so the collector ship may be able to travel by other means... making a steakout a bad option.  

And the writers illuded to other collector ships. Maybe there are more ships, more bases.

It is easy for us to criticise actions characters take in a plot... just as it is easy to look back at real events in World history and shake our heads.  Pear Harbour, Hitler fighting in multiple fronts, Vietnam, the war in Iraq, etc.    

[Throw_this_away]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

I would contend that having fun with him would be putting forward valid arguments himself. Besides closely look at his arguments. When he is arguing things he never insults anyone, but when he isn't arguing with people he calls them idiots and tells them to put forth evidence to back up arguments.

Like I said I'm even on your side and I can honestly say you aren't really helping.

He wants to argue.  When no one is arguing he resorts to insults to draw people in.  When he is losing he ignores or goes to insults. 

I am not try ing to help really.  I was trying the opposite.  

[Sparda Stonerule]

Well I completely agree with you on that. To me what you just put forth was a decent exchange. I can certainly see where Smud comes from, but since he dissects the plot to such a high degree he should be able to see how it makes sense and could easily tie into Mass Effect 3.



Besides once you start dissecting real life you realize a lot of things are contrived and don't make sense. Like the plot hole in the real world as to why on Earth we can't recreate Pyramids that were made ages ago even given our advances in technology. The plot holes relating to war and politics. The plot holes of BP. Hardly any real life scenario has a completely coherent and adequately explained narrative.

[ADLegend21]

theelementslayer wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

no the real plot hole to rule them all is that no onecalls shepard by their first name even peopleoutside of military ranks DUH! *rolls eyes*

No the real plot hole is. HOW CAN WE COMMAND SHEPARD TO MOVE. there is no telekenises, its like we are......ASSUMING CONTROL

No no,  the REAL plothole is...This smiley ->

Nono its. WHY ARE WE ALIVE, and of course this -> I mean where is the reasoning behind that. I DEMAND EXPOSITION TO THE HIGHEST DEGREE

hmm...Well, the first heart symbolizes how awesoe shepard is, the second...is a PLOT HOLE!!!!!

[Throw_this_away]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Well I completely agree with you on that. To me what you just put forth was a decent exchange. I can certainly see where Smud comes from, but since he dissects the plot to such a high degree he should be able to see how it makes sense and could easily tie into Mass Effect 3.

Besides once you start dissecting real life you realize a lot of things are contrived and don't make sense. Like the plot hole in the real world as to why on Earth we can't recreate Pyramids that were made ages ago even given our advances in technology. The plot holes relating to war and politics. The plot holes of BP. Hardly any real life scenario has a completely coherent and adequately explained narrative.

Exactly.  You just agreed with a blind idiot.  Or was that an implied blind idiot?

I used to disect movies to the nth degree.  And whenever I did I realized that I enjoyed the movie less.  It is easy to do with EVERYTHING in life.  Learning to truly enjoy life is far more difficult. 

Some people just like to argue for arguing sake.  People like to "win."  You are trying to win by being polite, logical, and rational and having people agree with your logic.  Smudboy is trying to "win" by drawing people into the argument, so that he can shoot it down with his own biased interpretations, persistance, and when push comes to shove... insults.  

I am trying to win by simply generating responses to my posts (smud eventually caught on to this).  Sometimes I try to make valid arguments (like with you, as you are reasonable and able to see two sides of the same coin), sometimes I choose to leave "plot holes" in my arguments in hopes someone will pounce and allow me to counter, sometimes I insult people (usually someone who has insulted another).  sometimes I make fun of people.  Sometimes I make fun of myself.  Sometimes I am wrong.  Sometimes I get bored an move on. 

Modifié par Throw_this_away, 29 juillet 2010 - 04:57 .

[Throw_this_away]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

I would contend that having fun with him would be putting forward valid arguments himself. .

No.  That is what he wants.  And they won;t work because he won;t listen. 

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

Even if there were a hypothetical minefield; what's to stop the Collectors from jumping to FTL right out of the Relay?

[Sparda Stonerule]

Throw_this_away wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Well I completely agree with you on that. To me what you just put forth was a decent exchange. I can certainly see where Smud comes from, but since he dissects the plot to such a high degree he should be able to see how it makes sense and could easily tie into Mass Effect 3.

Besides once you start dissecting real life you realize a lot of things are contrived and don't make sense. Like the plot hole in the real world as to why on Earth we can't recreate Pyramids that were made ages ago even given our advances in technology. The plot holes relating to war and politics. The plot holes of BP. Hardly any real life scenario has a completely coherent and adequately explained narrative.

Exactly.  You just agreed with a blind idiot.  Or was that an implied blind idiot?

I used to disect movies to the nth degree.  And whenever I did I realized that I enjoyed the movie less.  It is easy to do with EVERYTHING in life.  Learning to truly enjoy life is far more difficult. 

Some people just like to argue for arguing sake.  People like to "win."  You are trying to win by being polite, logical, and rational and having people agree with your logic.  Smudboy is trying to "win" by drawing people into the argument, so that he can shoot it down with his own biased interpretations, persistance, and when push comes to shove... insults.  

I am trying to win by simply generating responses to my posts (smud eventually caught on to this).  Sometimes I try to make valid arguments (like with you, as you are reasonable and able to see two sides of the same coin), sometimes I choose to leave "plot holes" in my arguments in hopes someone will pounce and allow me to counter, sometimes I insult people (usually someone who has insulted another).  sometimes I make fun of people.  Sometimes I make fun of myself.  Sometimes I am wrong.  Sometimes I get bored an move on. 

I never said you were a blind idiot. However you are much more competent than I gave you credit for, sorry about that but I've never seen you post before. Besides I try to win just by pointing out that people are being unreasonable. Or being hypocrites, doesn't really matter which. I do tend to find making cohesive arguments very fun even if people never listen. In my mind most people who look at it will see a good argument, then see it being ignored and tend to side with me.

Either way, I've had a good time discussing things here today because it didn't degrade like it usually does. 

[Throw_this_away]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

I never said you were a blind idiot. However you are much more competent than I gave you credit for, sorry about that but I've never seen you post before. Besides I try to win just by pointing out that people are being unreasonable. Or being hypocrites, doesn't really matter which. I do tend to find making cohesive arguments very fun even if people never listen. In my mind most people who look at it will see a good argument, then see it being ignored and tend to side with me.

Either way, I've had a good time discussing things here today because it didn't degrade like it usually does. 

Intelligence is relative.  We are all blind idiots in the big picture. 

Modifié par Throw_this_away, 29 juillet 2010 - 05:21 .

[Sparda Stonerule]

My understanding of the universe has been thrown into massive doubt. CURSE YOU.

[theelementslayer]

ADLegend21 wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...
No no,  the REAL plothole is...This smiley ->

Nono its. WHY ARE WE ALIVE, and of course this -> I mean where is the reasoning behind that. I DEMAND EXPOSITION TO THE HIGHEST DEGREE

hmm...Well, the first heart symbolizes how awesoe shepard is, the second...is a PLOT HOLE!!!!!

Where is the meaning behind it. we must figure it out or it will affect our everyday life. EVERYTHING MUST BE EXPLAINED. I will not be able to continue my life until I know.

Please ADLegend21, lets us go one the quest to find the meaning of the hearty face. We will face odds unknown to man, and we must find an answer or else our lives are meaningless. So without further ado

"cue epic music"

[Sparda Stonerule]

I think it symbolizes the feelings Tali has.

Modifié par Sparda Stonerule, 29 juillet 2010 - 05:23 .

[theelementslayer]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

I think it symbolizes the feelings Tali has.

Well that is the shortest, most boring epic adventure Ive been on. And I was all set with that epic music just pumping. Damn, ah well Im thinking more its liara to femshep and jack to my manshep. 

[Throw_this_away]

theelementslayer wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...
No no,  the REAL plothole is...This smiley ->

Nono its. WHY ARE WE ALIVE, and of course this -> I mean where is the reasoning behind that. I DEMAND EXPOSITION TO THE HIGHEST DEGREE

hmm...Well, the first heart symbolizes how awesoe shepard is, the second...is a PLOT HOLE!!!!!

Where is the meaning behind it. we must figure it out or it will affect our everyday life. EVERYTHING MUST BE EXPLAINED. I will not be able to continue my life until I know.

Please ADLegend21, lets us go one the quest to find the meaning of the hearty face. We will face odds unknown to man, and we must find an answer or else our lives are meaningless. So without further ado

"cue epic music"

Learn the defenition of a plot hole, and Give me an argument with evidence so that I can shoot it down point for point with my biased one sided interpretations of "what is correct". 

[Sparda Stonerule]

Sorry. Maybe we can go on an Epic Adventure to discover why so many Mass Effect characters always have one eye open wider than the other.

[theelementslayer]

Throw_this_away wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...
No no,  the REAL plothole is...This smiley ->

Nono its. WHY ARE WE ALIVE, and of course this -> I mean where is the reasoning behind that. I DEMAND EXPOSITION TO THE HIGHEST DEGREE

hmm...Well, the first heart symbolizes how awesoe shepard is, the second...is a PLOT HOLE!!!!!

Where is the meaning behind it. we must figure it out or it will affect our everyday life. EVERYTHING MUST BE EXPLAINED. I will not be able to continue my life until I know.

Please ADLegend21, lets us go one the quest to find the meaning of the hearty face. We will face odds unknown to man, and we must find an answer or else our lives are meaningless. So without further ado

"cue epic music"

Learn the defenition of a plot hole, and Give me an argument with evidence so that I can shoot it down point for point with my biased one sided interpretations of "what is correct". 

But I wanted an epic adventure, with gunshots and diving through windows. Fast cars, women and booze. I mean come on where is the epicness to what your describing. Now my epic adventure has not been ruined but I am going to undergo a deadly mission or NOT PROVIDING ANY EVIDENCE and just enjoying myself. 

*Cue overture*

[Throw_this_away]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

My understanding of the universe has been thrown into massive doubt. CURSE YOU.

It is easy to think we are right.  Knowing when we are wrong is hard.  

Modifié par Throw_this_away, 29 juillet 2010 - 05:40 .

[Throw_this_away]

theelementslayer wrote...

But I wanted an epic adventure, with gunshots and diving through windows. Fast cars, women and booze. I mean come on where is the epicness to what your describing. Now my epic adventure has not been ruined but I am going to undergo a deadly mission or NOT PROVIDING ANY EVIDENCE and just enjoying myself. 

*Cue overture*

Hey, my idea is no less boring than camping out by the omega relay . 

[Throw_this_away]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Sorry. Maybe we can go on an Epic Adventure to discover why so many Mass Effect characters always have one eye open wider than the other.

failed botox injections.  Think about it.  Few people have wrinkles.   

[theelementslayer]

Throw_this_away wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

But I wanted an epic adventure, with gunshots and diving through windows. Fast cars, women and booze. I mean come on where is the epicness to what your describing. Now my epic adventure has not been ruined but I am going to undergo a deadly mission or NOT PROVIDING ANY EVIDENCE and just enjoying myself. 

*Cue overture*

Hey, my idea is no less boring than camping out by the omega relay . 

Ah yes but by camping by the Omega 4 relay we can bed every girl on the normandy and then get the crap kicked out of us when the collectors come. Speaking of plotholes, why doesnt kasumi and jacob hook up.

NEW EPIC ADVENTURE FOR ME 

*Cue epicer music"

[Sparda Stonerule]

Throw_this_away wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Sorry. Maybe we can go on an Epic Adventure to discover why so many Mass Effect characters always have one eye open wider than the other.

failed botox injections.  Think about it.  Few people have wrinkles.   

Dear god you are right. Even Helena Blake is relatively fair skinned.