581 réponses à ce sujet

[Sparda Stonerule]

Throw_this_away wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Throw_This_Away I would love to be on your side but you hate Tali, even though I quite like her character. We just can't see eye to eye. I'm going to need to see your evidence and arguments against Tali again so I can shoot you down through subjective arguments.

Evidence/arguments:
1) She is popular.  I hate popular characters because I see myself as clever and uber hip an original so I can;t like anything if other people like it.  
2) She has no face.  So I can;t relate to her as much as other characters.  It is my human nature.  At least legion has the flaps.  
3) she looks odd.  Her legs make her look like she has rickets.  She is not even attractive.  She looks like Golumn for all I know.  
4) She is easy.  She throws herself at sheploo.  I like to pick my girls and go after them.  The fun is in the chase.  
5) she seems very young.  Her background and maturity suggest this.  Her romance it too virginal... and it feels creepy to me.   
6) she is too nice.  I don't trust nice people.  I want some flaws... because damnit we all have them.  THe ones that don;t are just doing a better job at hiding it.  
7)  She is too self concious.  I find confidence sexy.  She lacks it romantically. 
8) she is popular. More bang for the buck when you are trying to get a rise. 
9) suicide mission.  I struggled on my first vanguard playthrough.  The kept crying for me to hurry up because it was so hot.  I was taking a long time to advance... and her voice just got more annoying.  "It may be hot in the pipes but I have collectors trying to assume control of my ass so go shove it!!!"  I cheered when she got the head shot.  It is now my ritual for nostalgia reasons.  

Your argument is completely invalid because nostalgia is for little girls.

[Throw_this_away]

wulf3n wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...
He wants collector tech because the reapers made the collectors from the protheans.  That suggests reaper tech that may be useful.   And there was a big reaper fetus on the ship.

Wait!...how did he know there was a Reaper fetus on the base? Oh that's right he read the script.

Throw_this_away wrote...
We don't know how much TIM really knows.  But we know he deals in knowledge.

 

And the only people that could have told him about the base is the Collectors, and something tells me there not too chatty with TIM.

Throw_this_away wrote...
As far as stories go... what would be the fun of it if we as gamers knew everything TIM did, and why he does as he does?  

There's a difference between not knowing anything, and our actions suggesting we know stuff, that we're never told.

No you are wrong.  I am right.  [/discussion]

[wulf3n]

Throw_this_away wrote...
No you are wrong.  I am right.  [/discussion]

Just the answer i was looking for 

[smudboy]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Yeah well plenty of stories have plot holes. I'm not saying it's ok it's just kind of unavoidable since most stories want to add tension. Tension is the breeding ground of plot holes. If you don't believe me go analyze any story when situations get tense and tell me there isn't a plot hole. Then go examine real world history, tell me any tense situation didn't have a better outcome, or at very least a subjectively better one.

I'm not even saying that there aren't plot holes, just that in some situations you are suggesting things should be happening based off of tech that doesn't exist at the time. I'm honestly not saying the plot is bulletproof. No plot is.

ME2 is crazily filled with them.  I don't even consider there being a plot for many reasons aside from the holes.  That just solidifies the argument.

I don't see how tension, or conflict, or any kind of dramatic element = plot holes.  It's simply poor writing and poor storytelling.

As far as I'm concerned, those are space mines:
http://masseffect.wi...e_Blasting_Caps

But the real issue isn't my military interpretation of recon on the Omega-4 relay.  It's the fact that any recon wasn't taken on it despite TIM and others having knowedge of the relationship

[Throw_this_away]

wulf3n wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Excuse me wulf3n I think you are forgetting that from the beginning of the game TIM suspected Reapers were involved with the Collectors. Then part way through the game that this is true. Later we find out the Collectors are Protheans and that the Reapers made them that way. So the Collectors and their ship are Reaper tech. No need to read the script, even though I do suspect he would cheat like that if he could.

So why does he get you to build up a squad form the very beginning? Why does he want you to go through the Omega 4 relay from the very beginning?

Sparda Stonerule wrote...
Stop trying to be as awesome as Smud. Your arguments aren't nearly as good as his.

True, and i would concede that point...if i needed to be as good as smud to argue with you.

lets be honest... it is not written that TIM has any insider info on the collectors/reapers that he did not share with Shep.  It is obvious that he was clueless and being completly honest with shep the entire game.  No info was being held back. 

[/discussion]

[victory]
throw_this_away
[/victory]

[Throw_this_away]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Throw_This_Away I would love to be on your side but you hate Tali, even though I quite like her character. We just can't see eye to eye. I'm going to need to see your evidence and arguments against Tali again so I can shoot you down through subjective arguments.

Evidence/arguments:
1) She is popular.  I hate popular characters because I see myself as clever and uber hip an original so I can;t like anything if other people like it.  
2) She has no face.  So I can;t relate to her as much as other characters.  It is my human nature.  At least legion has the flaps.  
3) she looks odd.  Her legs make her look like she has rickets.  She is not even attractive.  She looks like Golumn for all I know.  
4) She is easy.  She throws herself at sheploo.  I like to pick my girls and go after them.  The fun is in the chase.  
5) she seems very young.  Her background and maturity suggest this.  Her romance it too virginal... and it feels creepy to me.   
6) she is too nice.  I don't trust nice people.  I want some flaws... because damnit we all have them.  THe ones that don;t are just doing a better job at hiding it.  
7)  She is too self concious.  I find confidence sexy.  She lacks it romantically. 
8) she is popular. More bang for the buck when you are trying to get a rise. 
9) suicide mission.  I struggled on my first vanguard playthrough.  The kept crying for me to hurry up because it was so hot.  I was taking a long time to advance... and her voice just got more annoying.  "It may be hot in the pipes but I have collectors trying to assume control of my ass so go shove it!!!"  I cheered when she got the head shot.  It is now my ritual for nostalgia reasons.  

Your argument is completely invalid because nostalgia is for little girls.

You obviously know little of little girls. 

Sugar and spice and everything nice are for little girls. 

[/discussion]

[Throw_this_away]

wulf3n wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...
No you are wrong.  I am right.  [/discussion]

Just the answer i was looking for 

NOOOO!  Your answer to my trick answer is the answer I WAS LOOKING FOR!  

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

smudboy wrote...
But the real issue isn't my military interpretation of recon on the Omega-4 relay.  It's the fact that any recon wasn't taken on it despite TIM and others having knowedge of the relationship

How do you know he didn't do any recon; and if he did, he just didn't tell you or act upon it?

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

Throw_this_away wrote...

wulf3n wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...
No you are wrong.  I am right.  [/discussion]

Just the answer i was looking for 

NOOOO!  Your answer to my trick answer is the answer I WAS LOOKING FOR!  

Well played.

[Whatever42]

/cry now this thread is full of smudboys.

[wulf3n]

Throw_this_away wrote...
lets be honest... it is not written that TIM has any insider info on the collectors/reapers that he did not share with Shep.  It is obvious that he was clueless and being completly honest with shep the entire game.  No info was being held back. 

How could TIM get info on the Collectors? specifically about their base, and the baby reaper?

edit

Whatever666343431431654324...
/cry now this thread is full of smudboys.

Quite the opposite, i hate smudboy with all my heart, that doesn't change the fact that he's right.

Modifié par wulf3n, 30 juillet 2010 - 12:45 .

[Throw_this_away]

smudboy wrote...

doughnuts is crazily filled with them.  I don't even consider there being a doughnut for many reasons aside from the holes.  That just solidifies the argument.

I don't see how sprinkles, or frosting, or any kind of cream filling = doughnut holes.  It's simply poor writing and poor baking.

As far as I'm concerned, those are space doughnuts:
http://masseffect.wi...e_Blasting_Caps

But the real issue isn't my military interpretation of recon on the Omega-4 cream tart.  It's the fact that any recon wasn't taken on it despite TIM and others having knowedge of the relationship

What are you talking about man?

[Sparda Stonerule]

Well then Smud you aren't going by the definition of a plot. I don't know what you wanted, but it's pretty clear what happened. Shepard dies. Wakes up two years later. He gets ready to leave Cerberus behind but TIM asks him to check out Freedom's Progress. Shepard finds out about the Collectors and then TIM suggests they may be working with the Reapers. At the time no Reaper is tooling around the Galaxy with a Turian under his control. So for the time being the only lead on the Reapers you may have is these Collectors. So you build a team to take the fight to them. You come closer with each encounter culminating on an all out assault on where they come from. By some luck EDI cracks their files and gets data about Harbinger, who evidently woke all the other Reapers in order to slowly fly into the Galaxy.



Now I don't know about you, but if all ME 2 had a plot like. Shepard knows of Reapers, everyone believes him, he follows three completely coincidental leads that point to a single planet. This planet somehow has a device that lets Shepard kill Reapers. Cue Reaper invasion. I would have been disappointed.



I know the plot didn't make sense to you, but there is a clear link between the Collectors and the Reapers and Shepard followed that one incredibly convoluted lead.

[Throw_this_away]

wulf3n wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...
lets be honest... it is not written that TIM has any insider info on the collectors/reapers that he did not share with Shep.  It is obvious that he was clueless and being completly honest with shep the entire game.  No info was being held back. 

How could TIM get info on the Collectors? specifically about their base, and the baby reaper?

Dude... are you serious?  Do I need to spell it out?

He phoned a friend.  (he polled the audience to revive shep). 

[Throw_this_away]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

/cry now this thread is full of smudboys.

*hack*
*spit*

I resent that accusation!  It is an insult.  

SAy you are sorry now or I will tell Smudboy's black-hole of a mom.  

[wulf3n]

Throw_this_away wrote...
Dude... are you serious?  Do I need to spell it out?

He phoned a friend.  (he polled the audience to revive shep). 

Are you always this stupid? or only when you've lost an argument?

[smudboy]

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

smudboy wrote...
But the real issue isn't my military interpretation of recon on the Omega-4 relay.  It's the fact that any recon wasn't taken on it despite TIM and others having knowedge of the relationship

How do you know he didn't do any recon; and if he did, he just didn't tell you or act upon it?

That doesn't matter. The fact that the TIM never told or showed us makes it a plot hole.

1) If he did and that wasn't shown/told in the narrative = plot hole
2) If he did and that was shown/told in the narrative = plot hole.

You see, it has to be a course of action that is 1) made aware to the characters, 2) not taken.

If the simple solution is both part of the narrative, and either 1) taken, 2) attempted, 3) referred to as an option they simply can't do/don't have time for/came up with some believable excuse, then it's not a plot hole.  The problem with 3) is they can say they can't do it, but evidence says otherwise.

[Sparda Stonerule]

Throw_this_away wrote...

You obviously know little of little girls. 

Sugar and spice and everything nice are for little girls. 

[/discussion]

We both know little girls are extremely sneaky and can never be trusted. You know this because you are one and I know this because the girl scouts swindled me.

[Throw_this_away]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...


Now I don't know about you, but if all ME 2 had a plot like. Shepard knows of Reapers, everyone believes him, he follows three completely coincidental leads that point to a single planet. This planet somehow has a device that lets Shepard kill Reapers. Cue Reaper invasion. I would have been disappointed.

Now just throw in a recon mini game that fills 90% of the game... think planet scanning of the empty space around the omega-4 relay... and you have a PERFECT GAME.  

Logical.  No-plot holes. 

[Whatever42]

wulf3n wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...
Dude... are you serious?  Do I need to spell it out?

He phoned a friend.  (he polled the audience to revive shep). 

Are you always this stupid? or only when you've lost an argument?

You two should fight. After school. At the bike racks.

[Throw_this_away]

wulf3n wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...
Dude... are you serious?  Do I need to spell it out?

He phoned a friend.  (he polled the audience to revive shep). 

Am I always this stupid? only when I've lost an argument!

bro... bro, be easy on yourself bro. 

[Sparda Stonerule]

Wulf3n there is a fine line when it comes to actually feeling the need to argue and making jokes because the person arguing with you is clearly not making much sense. If you've noticed Smud never backed you up because you are not making good arguments. We are making jokes because we've all made our points rather well and yet this drags on and on.

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

smudboy wrote...

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

smudboy wrote...
But the real issue isn't my military interpretation of recon on the Omega-4 relay.  It's the fact that any recon wasn't taken on it despite TIM and others having knowedge of the relationship

How do you know he didn't do any recon; and if he did, he just didn't tell you or act upon it?

That doesn't matter. The fact that the TIM never told or showed us makes it a plot hole.

1) If he did and that wasn't shown/told in the narrative = plot hole
2) If he did and that was shown/told in the narrative = plot hole.

You see, it has to be a course of action that is 1) made aware to the characters, 2) not taken.

If the simple solution is both part of the narrative, and either 1) taken, 2) attempted, 3) referred to as an option they simply can't do/don't have time for/came up with some believable excuse, then it's not a plot hole.  The problem with 3) is they can say they can't do it, but evidence says otherwise.

Evidence of what? There are no space mines.

[Sparda Stonerule]

Throw_this_away wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...


Now I don't know about you, but if all ME 2 had a plot like. Shepard knows of Reapers, everyone believes him, he follows three completely coincidental leads that point to a single planet. This planet somehow has a device that lets Shepard kill Reapers. Cue Reaper invasion. I would have been disappointed.

Now just throw in a recon mini game that fills 90% of the game... think planet scanning of the empty space around the omega-4 relay... and you have a PERFECT GAME.  

Logical.  No-plot holes. 

I demand you stop coming up with glorious plots. Just because your plot has no holes does not mean you can taunt us about it.

[Throw_this_away]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...

You obviously know little of little girls. 

Sugar and spice and everything nice are for little girls. 

[/discussion]

We both know little girls are extremely sneaky and can never be trusted. You know this because you are one and I know this because the girl scouts swindled me.

I overcharged you for those cookies... and I licked one.  Tali fans would find that hot though.... they like em "fresh"

*shivers*