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One plot hole to rule them all


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#26
Lemonwizard

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InvaderErl wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

You cannot destroy a mass relay with conventional weapons.

And the Omega 4 Relay looks bigger and badder than other relays too. And it's red. It looks like Sauron if Sauron were turned into a relay.


Those damn Reapers. They reaped Middle Earth!




Shit, man, imagine a freaking Uruk-Hai reaper. That would be scary.

#27
smudboy

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InvaderErl wrote...
"They" are the slavers and merc groups that dominate the Terminus systems. The same one's that we're told engage with the Collectors regularly and are paid well for their work.

The Omega relay is not tucked away at the end ass of space. It is near the heart of the Terminus systems - Omega itself and their detection network was good enough that they picked up the Normandy from the moment it first entered their territory.

I think they're going to notice a bunch of Cerberus ships laying down a minefield around the relay and should they take issue with this (and I imagine if their flow of creds was jeopardized because some humans suddenly have a grudge they would) Cerberus doesn't have the resources to do anything but ****** off the locals and make their ability to operate out there even more precarious than it already is.


I don't recall "they" having any kind of large trade agreements that "they'd" get pissed over should their reclusive partners not show up, whenever they choose to.

So talk to Aria.  Big deal.  The thing has warning beacons around it anyway.  Now it'll have a new message "get close, you die before even trying."

Cerberus has no problem operating wherever it wants, even in Citadel space.

#28
Zack56

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#29
InvaderErl

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smudboy wrote...



I don't recall "they" having any kind of large trade agreements that "they'd" get pissed over should their reclusive partners not show up, whenever they choose to.


I know, its not like they pay mercs and slavers exorbitant fees in exchange for slaves and biological samples...

Oh wait.

smudboy wrote...
So talk to Aria.  Big deal.  The thing has warning beacons around it anyway.  Now it'll have a new message "get close, you die before even trying."


Aria runs Omega, she doesn't run the Terminus, even then her control of Omega is not nearly as absolute as she'd have you believe (the people backing Ish, the planned takeover from the Omega gangs). Judging by how terrified the Council was of crossing their borders in ME1 and the speed with which you're detected upon approach its safe to say they take their borders and sovereignty very seriously.

Humans setting up a minefield around as far as they are concerned a source of money and within their space will be frowned upon.


smudboy wrote...
Cerberus has no problem operating wherever it wants, even in Citadel space.



I know it's not like their agents are hunted by Eclipse and tortured for information that could sink Cerberus... oh wait.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 25 juillet 2010 - 01:50 .


#30
smudboy

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InvaderErl wrote...

smudboy wrote...
I don't recall "they" having any kind of large trade agreements that "they'd" get pissed over should their reclusive partners not show up, whenever they choose to.


I know, its not like they pay mercs and slavers exorbitant fees in exchange for slaves and biological samples...

Oh wait.

Boo freaking hoo.  Kill them.  With bullets.  It'll be a fun thing, shooting up yet another merc group.  Oh wait.

smudboy wrote...
So talk to Aria.  Big deal.  The thing has warning beacons around it anyway.  Now it'll have a new message "get close, you die before even trying."


Aria runs Omega, she doesn't run the Terminus, even then her control of Omega is not nearly as absolute as she'd have you believe (the people backing Ish, the planned takeover from the Omega gangs). Judging by how terrified the Council was of crossing their borders in ME1 and the speed with which you're detected upon approach its safe to say they take their borders and sovereignty very seriously.

Humans setting up a minefield around as far as they are concerned a source of money and within their space will be frowned upon.

I still don't see the big deal here.  "They are rarely seen in Terminus itself, let alone Citadel space, and are generally regarded as a myth by Citadel citizens." I don't see how anyone is checking their email, waiting for their next Harbinger request to come in.  Give me a breaking break here.  Oh wait.

smudboy wrote...
Cerberus has no problem operating wherever it wants, even in Citadel space.

I know it's not like their agents are hunted by Eclipse and tortured for information that could sink Cerberus... oh wait.

Nothing new.  No argument.  Oh wait.

Modifié par smudboy, 25 juillet 2010 - 02:03 .


#31
InvaderErl

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smudboy wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

smudboy wrote...
I don't recall "they" having any kind of large trade agreements that "they'd" get pissed over should their reclusive partners not show up, whenever they choose to.


I know, its not like they pay mercs and slavers exorbitant fees in exchange for slaves and biological samples...

Oh wait.


Boo freaking hoo.  Kill them.  With bullets.  It'll be a fun thing, shooting up yet another merc group.  Oh wait.


I know right, cause Cerberus has such a huge space fleet ready to fight it out.

smudboy wrote...
I still don't see the big deal here.  "They are rarely seen in Terminus itself, let alone Citadel space, and are generally regarded as a myth by Citadel citizens." I don't see how anyone is checking their email, waiting for their next Harbinger request to come in.  Give me a breaking break here.  Oh wait.


Yeah, they don't mingle around population centers and post videos on the extranet... so what? 

Okeer said it himself they're reclusive but very much available when they want to be. They deal with the Shadowbroker and slavers/mercs, anyone else they don't care about - and its those slavers/mercs that are the one's that are going to have issue with a Ceberus minefield.

Its the people watching for Council intrusion into their territory that are going to notice a bunch of human ships laying a minefield in the heart of their space.


smudboy wrote...

Nothing new.  No argument.  Oh wait.


So you don't have a argument, nice to see.

I get you don't like to concede anything but this is... well whatever - I'm not surprised at this juncture.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 25 juillet 2010 - 02:19 .


#32
smudboy

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InvaderErl wrote...

I know right, cause Cerberus has such a huge space fleet ready to fight it out.

Shepard and co. have 0 problems fighting any merc group, any time.  Case in point: ME2.  This is not an issue.  You're inventing a series of merc groups who would take issue of a place in space no one intelligent would go anywhere near, because of the random enigmatic species no one ever sees, would somehow know there's a mindfield around, because it might interfere with their business which rarely happens, if ever.  Seriously.  Wtf are you trying to tell me here?  You like the little stories in your head? OMG mines go boom?  We must stop Cerberus!

Yeah, they don't mingle around population centers and post videos on the extranet... so what? 

Okeer said it himself they're reclusive but very much available when they want to be. They deal with the Shadowbroker and slavers/mercs, anyone else they don't care about - and its those slavers/mercs that are the one's that are going to have issue with a Ceberus minefield.

Its the people watching for Council intrusion into their territory that are going to notice a bunch of human ships laying a minefield in their space.

Yeah "when they want to be."  Not the other way around.  Collectors contact you, not Mr. Random Merc Group InvaderErl has no Evidence or Reference to make of, because none have been provided in the narrative.  Keep drinking the Tupari babe.

Collectors hit mine field.  Maybe it stops them, maybe not.  Go to Omega-4 relay, see what happens.  This is simple: your enemy is at known location, you flippin scout that damn location!  Mines work great too.

So you don't have a argument, nice to see.

In case your retarded ass can't figure out my argument, let me make it nice and clear for your overly demanding brain:

1. Monitor and/or mine the Omega-4 relay.
2. If something moves, go to the Omega-4 relay.
3. Deal with the consequences.  (Like, shooting anything that goes near it.)

I get you don't like to concede anything but this is... well whatever - I'm not surprised at this juncture.

As soon as you actually have an argument that doesn't involve you making wild speculation on how a simple solution won't work because of some fabricated tale of merc groups being so pissed off their clandestine alien species they know nothing of, who only contacts them, are so desperately waiting for "trade"...sure.  I'll concede.

#33
Inverness Moon

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Mass relays have proven to be virtually indestructible so far. That is the simple and obvious answer.

#34
InvaderErl

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smudboy wrote...

Shepard and co. have 0 problems fighting any merc group, any time.  Case in point: ME2.  This is not an issue.  You're inventing a series of merc groups who would take issue of a place in space no one intelligent would go anywhere near, because of the random enigmatic species no one ever sees, would somehow know there's a mindfield around, because it might interfere with their business which rarely happens, if ever.  Seriously.  Wtf are you trying to tell me here?  You like the little stories in your head? OMG mines go boom?  We must stop Cerberus!


If the Terminus systems respond with force to the minefield it will be in SPACE w/ SPACE SHIPS that big black place that the Normandy flies in, you know.  I don't get what kind of scenario you're forseeing where Shep gets to shoot at all of them with his gun.


smudboy wrote...
Yeah "when they want to be."  Not the other way around.  Collectors contact you, not Mr. Random Merc Group InvaderErl has no Evidence or Reference to make of, because none have been provided in the narrative.  Keep drinking the Tupari babe.


Okay, ignore the Illusive Man. Go ahead and ignore the game, nevermind.

smudboy wrote...
Collectors hit mine field.  Maybe it stops them, maybe not.  Go to Omega-4 relay, see what happens.  This is simple: your enemy is at known location, you flippin scout that damn location!  Mines work great too.

In case your retarded ass can't figure out my argument, let me make it nice and clear for your overly demanding brain:

1. Monitor and/or mine the Omega-4 relay.
2. If something moves, go to the Omega-4 relay.
3. Deal with the consequences.  (Like, shooting anything that goes near it.)

I get you don't like to concede anything but this is... well whatever - I'm not surprised at this juncture.

As soon as you actually have an argument that doesn't involve you making wild speculation on how a simple solution won't work because of some fabricated tale of merc groups being so pissed off their clandestine alien species they know nothing of, who only contacts them, are so desperately waiting for "trade"...sure.  I'll concede.


Oh dear...

Okay, Smud - when you stop ignoring what the game says because it doesn't conform to your argument, please do inform all of us.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 25 juillet 2010 - 02:49 .


#35
KainrycKarr

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Uhm, it seemed fairly played up in the comics that collectors regularly do business with the mercenary/slaving groups out in the terminus.



Normally I agree with you on certain things, but in this case I'm afraid it's the other way around.



Sure, Cerberus could do it, but it would certainly rock the boat.

#36
Onyx Jaguar

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Inverness Moon wrote...

Mass relays have proven to be virtually indestructible so far. That is the simple and obvious answer.


Virtually implies possibility.

Overlord it mother****er yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah

I don't know how just ****in' do it and don't come back with the results unless it is done.  Unless you not coming back is byproduct of the results, then let me know beforehand.

Basically there should be a way to destory them, but since the Council has forbid SO MANY THINGS, I wouldn't be surprised if relay study was one of the things forbid

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 25 juillet 2010 - 02:55 .


#37
smudboy

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InvaderErl wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Shepard and co. have 0 problems fighting any merc group, any time.  Case in point: ME2.  This is not an issue.  You're inventing a series of merc groups who would take issue of a place in space no one intelligent would go anywhere near, because of the random enigmatic species no one ever sees, would somehow know there's a mindfield around, because it might interfere with their business which rarely happens, if ever.  Seriously.  Wtf are you trying to tell me here?  You like the little stories in your head? OMG mines go boom?  We must stop Cerberus!


If the Terminus systems respond with force to the minefield it will be in SPACE w/ SPACE SHIPS that big black place that the Normany flies in, you know.  I don't get what kind of scenario you're forseeing where Shep gets to shoot at all of them with his gun.

Because that's how Shepard has dealt with every other merc group so far?

Again who in the Terminus Systems?  Name one group.  This fabricated unknown Merc group you can't refer to who have no way of contacting the Collectors or never travel to the Omega-4 relay anyway?  Oh no, whatever will Cerberus do *shudder*

Are you sure it'll be in SPACE with SPACE SHIPS?  Cause we're getting this team of badasses to fight this SPACE SHIP WAR with one space ship.  Or something.

Oh and the SR2 is stealth.  God help them try and fight us.

smudboy wrote...
Yeah "when they want to be."  Not the other way around.  Collectors contact you, not Mr. Random Merc Group InvaderErl has no Evidence or Reference to make of, because none have been provided in the narrative.  Keep drinking the Tupari babe.


Okay, ignore the Illusive Man. Go ahead and ignore the game, nevermind.

The only person I'm not ignoring right now is you, cause you're so full of comedy I can't help it.

WTF does "ignore the Illusive Man" mean here?  The idea is to MINE the RELAY.  I didn't say ask/not ask/go against TIM, or whether you could, but who cares?  This is irrelevant.  This is merely a supposed solution to what we know of the Collectors.  The Collectors are actively traveling and using this thing, and we're having a hard time tracking them.  Yet we know they enter/leave the Omega-4 relay.

Give me one excuse/reason why we shouldn't 1) Observe/monitor the relay that we are GUARANTEED to find Collectors, 2) Mine it.  (And by mine it, I mean one where your imagination doesn't make up crap.)

Even if we couldn't find Collectors, as you've said your magical, unknown Merc group would be SO ANGRY OVER CERBERUS for mining, that if we didn't stop their contacts, if the mine field merely told us of their location, bang: we now have one more contact that knows of the Collectors.  So there: I've just proven your stupid fantasy is actually beneficial to the plot, and not a bad thing at all.

#38
smudboy

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KainrycKarr wrote...

Uhm, it seemed fairly played up in the comics that collectors regularly do business with the mercenary/slaving groups out in the terminus.

Normally I agree with you on certain things, but in this case I'm afraid it's the other way around.

Sure, Cerberus could do it, but it would certainly rock the boat.


Cerberus, rock the boat?  No, they'd never do thaaaat.

#39
smudboy

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Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Mass relays have proven to be virtually indestructible so far. That is the simple and obvious answer.


Virtually implies possibility.

Overlord it mother****er yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah

I don't know how just ****in' do it and don't come back with the results unless it is done.  Unless you not coming back is byproduct of the results, then let me know beforehand.

Basically there should be a way to destory them, but since the Council has forbid SO MANY THINGS, I wouldn't be surprised if relay study was one of the things forbid


But then the imaginary merc groups would get sad :(((((((((((((((((((((

And then they'd want to kill you GRR CERBERUS

#40
InvaderErl

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Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Mass relays have proven to be virtually indestructible so far. That is the simple and obvious answer.


Virtually implies possibility.

Overlord it mother****er yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah

I don't know how just ****in' do it and don't come back with the results unless it is done.  Unless you not coming back is byproduct of the results, then let me know beforehand.

Basically there should be a way to destory them, but since the Council has forbid SO MANY THINGS, I wouldn't be surprised if relay study was one of the things forbid


There is ONE thing that we have not considered.


Image IPBImage IPB

Modifié par InvaderErl, 25 juillet 2010 - 02:59 .


#41
Onyx Jaguar

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Its not my problem that destroying relays for fun and profit effects their bottom line. They should look for a new line of work.

#42
smudboy

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InvaderErl wrote...
Okay, Smud - when you stop ignoring what the game says because it doesn't conform to your argument, please do inform all of us.

Seriously, what does the game say that doesn't conform to my argument?  It's a pretty simple argument chief.  Or should I re-write my argument so your brain can recall what I just wrote?

#43
Onyx Jaguar

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InvaderErl wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Mass relays have proven to be virtually indestructible so far. That is the simple and obvious answer.


Virtually implies possibility.

Overlord it mother****er yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah

I don't know how just ****in' do it and don't come back with the results unless it is done.  Unless you not coming back is byproduct of the results, then let me know beforehand.

Basically there should be a way to destory them, but since the Council has forbid SO MANY THINGS, I wouldn't be surprised if relay study was one of the things forbid


There is ONE thing that we have not considered.


Image IPBImage IPB


We'll unleash Liam Neeson because after all Liam Neeson can do what Citadel Spacedon't

#44
InvaderErl

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Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Its not my problem that destroying
relays for fun and profit effects their bottom line. They should look
for a new line of work.


I'm tryin.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 25 juillet 2010 - 03:01 .


#45
Onyx Jaguar

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I'm not here to hold your hand. If I blow up your trade routes its not my problem its yours. Deal with it



DEAL WITH IT

#46
InvaderErl

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#47
DiablosShadows

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InvaderErl wrote...

Image IPB



why so sad? want a hug? here have a cookie :lol: LOL

#48
InvaderErl

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Bah ignore twas a dumb post.

Here: http://a3.vox.com/6a...a788b685e-500pi

Modifié par InvaderErl, 25 juillet 2010 - 03:43 .


#49
Christmas Ape

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You want the one overarching error?

Adept, Vanguard, Engineer, and Sentinel weapon selections.

"Every Marine a rifleman."



Realized it a week ago, been worrying the thought like a bad tooth ever since.

#50
atheelogos

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AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

Are mass relays destructible? Didn't the Mu Relay managed to survive a supernova?

I know right! Hey OP I don't think relays can be destroyed, or at least not by any weapon we have.