581 réponses à ce sujet

[smudboy]

Maiq the Liar wrote...

smudboy wrote...

jackkel dragon wrote...
PS: I conceded most of my points, so I marked them as such. Just to be crystal clear.

I see it as a very clear plot hole.  Kinda need to hammer it into everyone's heads.  This one is special, since it's based on an action the narrative didn't explain, and is quite obvious.

If you think that something the game explained is a plot hole, then I have the smoldering remains of a Pinto to sell you for $400,000 dollars. It just LOOKS like the remains of a Pinto. It's actually an M1A1 Abrams.

When the game explain you couldn't mine the relay?

It is a simple course of action.  Look up what a plot hole is.

[Kroesis-]

smudboy wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

smudboy wrote...
I see it as a very clear plot hole.  Kinda need to hammer it into everyone's heads. 

No, no you don't.
Also mining the relay would not provide intel on what the collectors are doing with the colonists and the resources they have which is what I thought a part of the game was about.

Listen, I just had an argument where I clearly showed a plot hole.  Try re-reading it again.

Mining the relay would produce intel on the Collectors: where they are.  The goal of the plot is to Stop the Collectors.  Here's a simple way of doing it.

Nowhere in this plan does it stop Shepard and co from obtaining the IFF and eventually going through the relay.

It may be a 'plot hole', but there is no reason why you need to hammer it into everyone's heads.

That said, if you're talking about mining the Omega 4 as well as going through it to find out what was going on, fine. It would have the advantage of apparently preventing a collector ship from coming through, but until you go through the relay, you have no idea what to expect from them. They could have hundreds of ships, a couple of which could be used to clear the mines. Until you know, mining it could be a pointless exercise and waste of time and resources spent elsewhere (which before you say anything could very well be going on, just because we don't see it doesn't mean nothing else is happening behind the scenes).

Modifié par Kroesis-, 25 juillet 2010 - 10:12 .

[xSTONEYx187x]

smudboy wrote...

xSTONEYx187x wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

smudboy wrote...
I see it as a very clear plot hole.  Kinda need to hammer it into everyone's heads. 

No, no you don't.
Also mining the relay would not provide intel on what the collectors are doing with the colonists and the resources they have which is what I thought a part of the game was about.

He's obviously a troll. He has a link in is sig that goes to a video, about how Mass Effect has one of the worst storys in video game history.

Why exactly are you on this site, if you clearly dont like the game. Haters will be haters......

How am I a troll?

I say how ME2 has one of the worst plots in video game history.

I don't hate the game.  This is because you are an idiot and making assumptions.  But I forgive you.

Thanks for the kind words.

ME 2 is a story driven game. You made a 6 part critique on its plot. I just dont see the point in you posting on this forum banging on the game, when its clear you dont like it...

You are trolling. You know that this forum, well the majority, is full of ME 2 fans. Your just looking for reactions, why I dont know.

[smudboy]

Kroesis- wrote...
It may be a 'plot hole', but there is no reason why you need to hammer it into everyone's heads.

That said, if you're talking about mining the Omega 4 as well as going through it to find out what was going on, fine. It would have the advantage of apparently preventing a collector ship from coming through, but until you go through the relay, you have no idea what to expect from them. They could have hundreds of ships, a couple of which could be used to clear the mines. Until you know, mining it could be a pointless exercise and waste of time and resources spent elsewhere (which before you say anything could very well be going on, just because we don't see it doesn't mean nothing else is happening behind the scenes).

I like to argue my point.  It's how it's done.  Apologies if my axe cuteth to close to the block.

Well, what you're saying is exactly the same either mining or not.

If they have hundreds of ships, then the mines would set off, and we'd go "oh crap, they have hundreds of ships!"

Sorry, but considering the entire game, pre-Suicide Mission, we learn nothing about the Collectors and their supposed numbers, fleets, bases, planets, etc., it is not a pointless exercise.  That relay is only used by our enemy.  We mine it, scout it, setup spy satellites, whatever we can to track our enemy.  Because the point of the plot, is to stop them.  And we need to find them in the fastest way possible (as you notice, while you complete main plot points, your red shirt crew will comment on various colonies that were just lost.)

[smudboy]

xSTONEYx187x wrote...
Thanks for the kind words.

ME 2 is a story driven game. You made a 6 part critique on its plot. I just dont see the point in you posting on this forum banging on the game, when its clear you dont like it...

You are trolling. You know that this forum, well the majority, is full of ME 2 fans. Your just looking for reactions, why I dont know.

I bang on the plot.  P L O T.

The game's cool.  Why else would I be here?  If the game was rubbish, I wouldn't care two sh!ts about you guys or bothering my time with it.

How am I trolling?  I'm a ME2 fan.  I don't see the problem here.

I'm looking for reactions?  Eh, I just want to express myself, the same way everyone else does.

[smudboy]

Maiq the Liar wrote...
Actually, if you look through the codex and pay attention to certain dialogues, you would understand why it wouldn't work. Go back and play the game you hate, so you can catch up, okay?

I looked through the codex on relays, and the Omega-4.  Didn't see a problem. Perhaps you can point out specifically why it didn't work?  Don't just say it won't work; prove it to me, chief!

Psst: I don't hate the game.  Pass it on.

[statesman1114]

smudboy wrote...

xSTONEYx187x wrote...
Thanks for the kind words.

ME 2 is a story driven game. You made a 6 part critique on its plot. I just dont see the point in you posting on this forum banging on the game, when its clear you dont like it...

You are trolling. You know that this forum, well the majority, is full of ME 2 fans. Your just looking for reactions, why I dont know.

I bang on the plot.  P L O T.

The game's cool.  Why else would I be here?  If the game was rubbish, I wouldn't care two sh!ts about you guys or bothering my time with it.

How am I trolling?  I'm a ME2 fan.  I don't see the problem here.

I'm looking for reactions?  Eh, I just want to express myself, the same way everyone else does.

The real problem is you don't know how to post something without pissing people off. Express your opinions differently, and maybe you won't be trollishy.

[smudboy]

statesman1114 wrote...
The real problem is you don't know how to post something without pissing people off. Express your opinions differently, and maybe you won't be trollishy.

I have no idea what it means to be trollishy.  I make my points as clearly as possible.  I then argue them.  That's it.  Really.

People berate me.  Some start up with the name calling, and some start calling me stupid.  These people barely know English.  They then resort to 4chan style pictures.  This generally doesn't bother me, but when they disregard my points then I just throw it right back at them.  What, should I just be Mr. Stoic all the time?

Hells no!  You gets pure unadulterated ME2 Fanboy Ragessnessess.  Or something.  Anyway it's fun to talk about all the hilarious flaws in this thing.  It's like you can drive a Death Star through it, but some don't even see that.

[Kroesis-]

smudboy wrote...
Sorry, but considering the entire game, pre-Suicide Mission, we learn nothing about the Collectors and their supposed numbers, fleets, bases, planets, etc., it is not a pointless exercise.  That relay is only used by our enemy.  We mine it, scout it, setup spy satellites, whatever we can to track our enemy.

I was commenting that it is pointless mining it as once the mines have done their job, they're gone and considering you are unaware of the enemies strength, it's possibly wasted time and resources. You've said nothing of scouting or tracking the enemy up until now, which is something I'd agree with.

[statesman1114]

smudboy wrote...

statesman1114 wrote...
The real problem is you don't know how to post something without pissing people off. Express your opinions differently, and maybe you won't be trollishy.

I have no idea what it means to be trollishy.  I make my points as clearly as possible.  I then argue them.  That's it.  Really.

People berate me.  Some start up with the name calling, and some start calling me stupid.  These people barely know English.  They then resort to 4chan style pictures.  This generally doesn't bother me, but when they disregard my points then I just throw it right back at them.  What, should I just be Mr. Stoic all the time?

Hells no!  You gets pure unadulterated ME2 Fanboy Ragessnessess.  Or something.  Anyway it's fun to talk about all the hilarious flaws in this thing.  It's like you can drive a Death Star through it, but some don't even see that.

Dude, exactly what I'm talking about. You need to be able to show that you can agree to disagree without writing three paragraphs making you look like the villain. You coming to a forum, ****ing about the game, and then writing pretentious essays about you are not a troll is exactly what being a troll is.

[jackkel dragon]

smudboy wrote...

statesman1114 wrote...
The real problem is you don't know how to post something without pissing people off. Express your opinions differently, and maybe you won't be trollishy.

I have no idea what it means to be trollishy.  I make my points as clearly as possible.  I then argue them.  That's it.  Really.

People berate me.  Some start up with the name calling, and some start calling me stupid.  These people barely know English.  They then resort to 4chan style pictures.  This generally doesn't bother me, but when they disregard my points then I just throw it right back at them.  What, should I just be Mr. Stoic all the time?

Hells no!  You gets pure unadulterated ME2 Fanboy Ragessnessess.  Or something.  Anyway it's fun to talk about all the hilarious flaws in this thing.  It's like you can drive a Death Star through it, but some don't even see that.

Not all of the problems with the "main plot" of ME2 are plot holes, but I know what you mean. You can tell that the "main plot" wasn't the focus of ME2 with all the wierd choices and inconsistancies...

(Ex. of inconsistancy: turian concillor. If he survives ME1, he acts like you're hot ****. In ME2, he acts like your the devil. What happen?)

(Ex. of plot hole: thermal clips on a planet that hasn't been seen in ten years? Thermal clips are two years old, guys.)

(Ex. of wierd choices: Let's blow up a Reaper before showing it to the authorities.)

Somebody forgot the plot! (Or was too focused on the other 15 story arcs in ME2. How many of these do we need?)

ME1 only had 3 essential story arcs. ME2 had 15, and about the same deveopment time. Guess what happens?

All right, that was longer and more off-topic than I expected. I'll stop.

PS: Smudboy, you may want to be a bit less confrontational. It's possible to successfully argue a point without put-downs. You may be accused of being a troll because you're more aggressive about your points than most people are willing to take. Even I, a self-proclaimed "fanboy," admit that ME2's main plot left a lot to be desired without trying to "hammer it into" people's heads. While it may sometimes be necessesary, "hammering" is never liked.

[Kroesis-]

smudboy wrote...
 It's like you can drive a Death Star through it, but some don't even see that.

Perhaps some don't want to see it, or perhaps they ignore it so they can just get on with letting the story play and get concerned about things other than a computer game.

[smudboy]

Kroesis- wrote...

smudboy wrote...
Sorry, but considering the entire game, pre-Suicide Mission, we learn nothing about the Collectors and their supposed numbers, fleets, bases, planets, etc., it is not a pointless exercise.  That relay is only used by our enemy.  We mine it, scout it, setup spy satellites, whatever we can to track our enemy.

I was commenting that it is pointless mining it as once the mines have done their job, they're gone and considering you are unaware of the enemies strength, it's possibly wasted time and resources. You've said nothing of scouting or tracking the enemy up until now, which is something I'd agree with.

Well I did mention setting up spy satellites, even one disguised as a warning beacon device (but maybe you didn't read that part.)  The fact is you should be doing all these things.  The mines are great, since they can either 1) destroy the cruiser, 2) damage it, 3) disable it, 4) damage/disable/destroy the Collector's trading partners.

And if the mines are gone: great.  We can check the wreckage for what we just blew up.  Collectors?  Awesome!  Mission accomplished.  Merc group/something else, damm!  Mayeb we can scour the wreckage for data or something.  Story continues on just as normal (IFF.)

[statesman1114]

smudboy wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

smudboy wrote...
Sorry, but considering the entire game, pre-Suicide Mission, we learn nothing about the Collectors and their supposed numbers, fleets, bases, planets, etc., it is not a pointless exercise.  That relay is only used by our enemy.  We mine it, scout it, setup spy satellites, whatever we can to track our enemy.

I was commenting that it is pointless mining it as once the mines have done their job, they're gone and considering you are unaware of the enemies strength, it's possibly wasted time and resources. You've said nothing of scouting or tracking the enemy up until now, which is something I'd agree with.

Well I did mention setting up spy satellites, even one disguised as a warning beacon device (but maybe you didn't read that part.)  The fact is you should be doing all these things.  The mines are great, since they can either 1) destroy the cruiser, 2) damage it, 3) disable it, 4) damage/disable/destroy the Collector's trading partners.

And if the mines are gone: great.  We can check the wreckage for what we just blew up.  Collectors?  Awesome!  Mission accomplished.  Merc group/something else, damm!  Mayeb we can scour the wreckage for data or something.  Story continues on just as normal (IFF.)

If mines could destroy the cruisers, then you wouldn't be allowed to use them on planets. Especially the inhabited ones. I remember reading in at least one planet's description that the Volus were using it, and I stil got tonnes of material out of it.

[smudboy]

statesman1114 wrote...
Dude, exactly what I'm talking about. You need to be able to show that you can agree to disagree without writing three paragraphs making you look like the villain. You coming to a forum, ****ing about the game, and then writing pretentious essays about you are not a troll is exactly what being a troll is.

Why?

I argue.  If you can't argue, don't.  How am I the villain?  I have a point, and I clarify it over and over again.  That's what arguing is.  If you can't accept that, don't argue with people, ever.  People are pretty steadfast in their beliefs.  It's sad, but that's how it goes.

I've been proven wrong lots of times on here, hell just yesterday.  It's no big deal.  Do I consider the people who've proven me wrong, villains?  Nope.  Yet they use language like "your argument fails" and the sort.

Does Ms. stateman need a hug? <3

I don't recall making anything pretentious.  Perhaps you can point to an essay I've previously written that's pretentious?

[Kroesis-]

smudboy wrote...
Well I did mention setting up spy satellites, even one disguised as a warning beacon device (but maybe you didn't read that part.)  The fact is you should be doing all these things.  The mines are great, since they can either 1) destroy the cruiser, 2) damage it, 3) disable it, 4) damage/disable/destroy the Collector's trading partners.

And if the mines are gone: great.  We can check the wreckage for what we just blew up.  Collectors?  Awesome!  Mission accomplished.  Merc group/something else, damm!  Mayeb we can scour the wreckage for data or something.  Story continues on just as normal (IFF.)

No, I'm afraid I didn't see that point, I'll take another wade through your posts. I don't think 'we' should be doing this at all. It should be done, yes, but Shepard wasn't brought back to simply lay mines and set up tracking beacons. You also missed the other outcome, mines go boom, collector ship damaged but not enough to stop it from doing what its going to do = Time & Resources wasted.

Modifié par Kroesis-, 25 juillet 2010 - 10:56 .

[smudboy]

Maiq the Liar wrote...

Mines assume that the Collectors would appear is a certain area, however, protocols recieved from the Reapers give them the ability to alter the exit point. As shown with the safe-zone on the other end of the Omega-4 Relay.

Yes, they would travel from the Omega-4 relay to get to their base. That's why you mine it.

This is not an issue of the exit point, but the entry point.  (Collectors travel around in Terminus.  Collectors want to go back to Glactic Core.  The go to the Omega-4 relay and then, oh crap, mine field.)  Although now that I think of it, considering the IFF, does that accuracy work coming to the Terminus System?  I doubt it.  If so, then that's one explosive exit point.

[statesman1114]

smudboy wrote...

statesman1114 wrote...
Dude, exactly what I'm talking about. You need to be able to show that you can agree to disagree without writing three paragraphs making you look like the villain. You coming to a forum, ****ing about the game, and then writing pretentious essays about you are not a troll is exactly what being a troll is.

Why?

I argue.  If you can't argue, don't.  How am I the villain?  I have a point, and I clarify it over and over again.  That's what arguing is.  If you can't accept that, don't argue with people, ever.  People are pretty steadfast in their beliefs.  It's sad, but that's how it goes.

I've been proven wrong lots of times on here, hell just yesterday.  It's no big deal.  Do I consider the people who've proven me wrong, villains?  Nope.  Yet they use language like "your argument fails" and the sort.

Does Ms. stateman need a hug? <3

I don't recall making anything pretentious.  Perhaps you can point to an essay I've previously written that's pretentious?

Your entire post is pretentious! I've posted here once for a week before the game came out, and for the last few days and I can tell you are a pretentious douche. You argue for no reason, when instead you should come to a consensus. When people call you out, you write a ******* essay about how they are idiots and you are awesome! And don't say you haven't done that either, you did it in that othe plot hole thread.

[xSTONEYx187x]

smudboy wrote...

statesman1114 wrote...
Dude, exactly what I'm talking about. You need to be able to show that you can agree to disagree without writing three paragraphs making you look like the villain. You coming to a forum, ****ing about the game, and then writing pretentious essays about you are not a troll is exactly what being a troll is.

Why?

I argue.  If you can't argue, don't.  How am I the villain?  I have a point, and I clarify it over and over again.  That's what arguing is.  If you can't accept that, don't argue with people, ever.  People are pretty steadfast in their beliefs.  It's sad, but that's how it goes.

I've been proven wrong lots of times on here, hell just yesterday.  It's no big deal.  Do I consider the people who've proven me wrong, villains?  Nope.  Yet they use language like "your argument fails" and the sort.

Does Ms. stateman need a hug? <3

I don't recall making anything pretentious.  Perhaps you can point to an essay I've previously written that's pretentious?

More pontificating then pretentious.

[smudboy]

Kroesis- wrote...
No, I'm afraid I didn't see that point, I'll take another wade through your posts. I don't think 'we' should be doing this at all. It should be done, yes, but Shepard wasn't brought back to simply lay mines and set up tracking beacons. You also missed the other outcome, mines go boom, collector ship damaged but not enough to stop it from doing what its going to do = Time & Resources wasted.

Shepard was brought back to do whatever TIM wanted him to do.  Shepard has no say in anything.  In fact, you could replace Shepard with anyone and the story would've been just fine.

Um, actually I did say that?  Just re-read what I just wrote man.

So damaging the Collector Ship = time wasted?  Are you serious?  Dude, the point of the game is STOP THE COLLECTORS.  Well, a few more damages to their vessel and they're stopped.  Seems you'd be what, 25% there? (depending on the yield of the mine.)  Seriously.

Considering the entire game you do absolutely no visible damage to the ship (Laser turrets!)  I'd consider every hit you make ...extremely important.

(Psst: Stop the Collectors.)

[Kroesis-]

smudboy wrote...
Yes, they would travel from the Omega-4 relay to get to their base. That's why you mine it.

This is not an issue of the exit point, but the entry point.  (Collectors travel around in Terminus.  Collectors want to go back to Glactic Core.  The go to the Omega-4 relay and then, oh crap, mine field.)  Although now that I think of it, considering the IFF, does that accuracy work coming to the Terminus System?  I doubt it.  If so, then that's one explosive exit point.

So, the possibility of them seeing/detecting the mines before entering and using their weaponry to destroythem first didn't occur?

[smudboy]

statesman1114 wrote...
Your entire post is pretentious! I've posted here once for a week before the game came out, and for the last few days and I can tell you are a pretentious douche. You argue for no reason, when instead you should come to a consensus. When people call you out, you write a ******* essay about how they are idiots and you are awesome! And don't say you haven't done that either, you did it in that othe plot hole thread.

Fine.  I shall write simply.

I am now just a douche.

I argue for no reason.  Aside from all those points I just make.  Also, when people attack my character.  It's only fair, since they're describing it.  So, I reply.  I'd hate to make them feel left out.

I love it when people call me out.  I just wish they had actual arguments.  That way, we could come to a ...consensus?

(I love going to consensus. I just wish my arguers would make a point I can actually accept.)