581 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

Question, does space mines even exist in Mass Effect universe?

[smudboy]

Kroesis- wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

Well this seems to have changed from a plot hole, to just an option that TIM didn't take.

Actually, that's what a plot hole is.  (There's several kinds.)

In that case all these posts and videos about plot holes and the like make me less concerned about them then was before.

Oh I wouldn't be concerend either.  There's just so many, I mean, everywhere.  Gets old after a while.  I just dismiss the plot entirely.

[Kroesis-]

smudboy wrote...
Because characters never mentioning or making a comment about already attempting/thinking about trying the obvious, simple solution to the goal, is a plot hole.

Damn! All this for a single line of dialogue. Bioware should be shot!

[Kroesis-]

smudboy wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

In that case all these posts and videos about plot holes and the like make me less concerned about them then was before.

Oh I wouldn't be concerend either.  There's just so many, I mean, everywhere.  Gets old after a while.  I just dismiss the plot entirely.

Yet you feel the need to 'hammer' them into people?

[Kroesis-]

Mesina2 wrote...

Question, does space mines even exist in Mass Effect universe?

I don't believe anything is mentioned about them but they're not outside the realm of possibility in the ME universe. All you'd need it a device with an explosive capable of penetrating shields/armour/hull (or capable of disrupting the internal workings of a ship) and a proximity detector (and something like an IFF so that they don't explode when you navigate the area). Also they could be made to swarm at a ship but thah would mean putting in some sort of propulsion system.

[wulf3n]

Mesina2 wrote...

Question, does space mines even exist in Mass Effect universe?

They have nuclear armed probes, that apparently work similar to mines.

[Raxxman]

explosions don't work in space. No gas to carry a shock wave.



So mines would have to attach to a hull, or actually be turrets that shoot projectiles/particle beams.

[Revan061]

smudboy wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

Well this seems to have changed from a plot hole, to just an option that TIM didn't take.

Actually, that's what a plot hole is.  (There's several kinds.)

In that case all these posts and videos about plot holes and the like make me less concerned about them then was before.

Oh I wouldn't be concerend either.  There's just so many, I mean, everywhere.  Gets old after a while.  I just dismiss the plot entirely.

This.

[Sparda Stonerule]

How do you know mining the Relay would actually stop the Collectors ship? From what I can tell the only thing that actually took out the ship reliably was the Thanix Cannon which was based on the Reaper tech that was studied after the attack on the Citadel. Also the Normandy's torpedos can take it out, but from what I can tell space mines do not have the same kinetic and explosive force of either weapon.



Then there's the fact that the Collector ship could appear out of the Relay at almost any point around this huge piece of technology. I doubt 1 mine going off against the hull of the ship would damage it. Unless you are seriously suggesting putting upwards of a billion mines around the damn thing. Keep this in mind. The Normandy SR2 is twice as big as your first ship, and if you look at it as it enters the Relay your ship looks puny. A reaper is smaller than the Omega 4 Relay. So in order to cover the entire Relay space you would need a lot of mines, even more if you want to make a full sphere, EVEN MORE if you wanted to make multiple layers.



Now for a few other facts. The collector ship is the only thing that ever leaves the area. We all know that the Collector ship itself has tons and tons of pods to hold humans in. From the narrative given in the game the Collector ship didn't head back through the Relay until after it had taken the Normandy's crew. I'm sure the Collector ship can stay hidden out in space quite easily for many many years. With their Reaper IFF they could use the Relays to jump almost anywhere they felt like it and just wait things out.



Then there is the final fact that the Collector's Base is beyond the Relay. How are we to stop the Collectors if we never get to their actual base? The base that they have is simply gigantic. Stopping the Collector ship wouldn't stop them, because they still have the base. Theoretically they might even be able to make another ship (but this part is pure speculation).

[wulf3n]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...
How do you know mining the Relay would actually stop the Collectors ship? 

You don't but given the lack of information it's the safest bet.

Sparda Stonerule wrote...
Then there's the fact that the Collector ship could appear out of the Relay at almost any point around this huge piece of technology. I doubt 1 mine going off against the hull of the ship would damage it. Unless you are seriously suggesting putting upwards of a billion mines around the damn thing. Keep this in mind. The Normandy SR2 is twice as big as your first ship, and if you look at it as it enters the Relay your ship looks puny. A reaper is smaller than the Omega 4 Relay. So in order to cover the entire Relay space you would need a lot of mines, even more if you want to make a full sphere, EVEN MORE if you wanted to make multiple layers.

Those assumptions are based on current technology, and we still have no proof mines exist in the ME universe. The closest thing i've found are nuclear armed "probes". You don't need to many of them, as they would actually head towards any ship entering via the relay.

Sparda Stonerule wrote...
Then there is the final fact that the Collector's Base is beyond the Relay. How are we to stop the Collectors if we never get to their actual base? The base that they have is simply gigantic. Stopping the Collector ship wouldn't stop them, because they still have the base. Theoretically they might even be able to make another ship (but this part is pure speculation).

At this point in the game we didn't know they had a base! we knew nothing!

[Sparda Stonerule]

Also if you are going to postulate theoretical space mines, why not postulate a super weapon that can just win any war? There are no space mines present in the game. If you are just going to pull random tech out of your mind then I don't see how you can fault anyone for postulating anything.



I'll take a line from you, provide evidence of this stuff existing and maybe I'll argue with your silly points you get from nowhere.



Also that is exactly it. You don't know anything so why bother throwing random made up tech that doesn't exist at a theoretical situation that never happened?

[Il Divo]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...
Now for a few other facts. The collector ship is the only thing that ever leaves the area. We all know that the Collector ship itself has tons and tons of pods to hold humans in. From the narrative given in the game the Collector ship didn't head back through the Relay until after it had taken the Normandy's crew. I'm sure the Collector ship can stay hidden out in space quite easily for many many years. With their Reaper IFF they could use the Relays to jump almost anywhere they felt like it and just wait things out.

However, more important I think than the idea that they can simply 'wait it out' in the Terminus Systems, is that the yield of a mine field so large as you are suggesting will either

a) miss the Collector Ship entirely due to selecting their exit point or
completely destroy any trace of its existence.

In the scenario of option b, we have no more or less information than we did before and still need to identify just what the hell they are stealing human colonies for.

Edit: To be clear, I agree with you for the most part. I just find the idea of the Collectors roaming around in space for several years to be quite out of place.

Wulf3n wrote...
At this point in the game we didn't know they had a base! we knew nothing!

However regardless of this, we knew they had some sort of location out of which they were operating beyond Omega 4, whether a base or a planet, etc. This doesn't change the general plan that we need to find some way through if we are going to find out what they/the Reapers are using these human colonies for. Hence why destruction of the Collector Ship (even assuming it could be done) seems like such a small victory.

Modifié par Il Divo, 26 juillet 2010 - 12:24 .

[Sparda Stonerule]

wulf3n wrote...
Those assumptions are based on current technology, and we still have no proof mines exist in the ME universe. The closest thing i've found are nuclear armed "probes". You don't need to many of them, as they would actually head towards any ship entering via the relay.

Actually those were recon probes. They were designed to explode in the event they were captured. They do not magically seek out and track a ship that can move faster than the probe. Unless you are suggesting a probe can catch up with a star ship. 

Again, please don't make up tech. Nowhere in the game is there any starship seeking nuclear probe.

[Sparda Stonerule]

Maiq the Liar wrote...

Except for the fact that we could create one that could seek out a moving object in space and detonate a nuclear warhead next to it, RIGHT NOW. The technology is quite simple, but the need is non-existant.

Sure we can, however can we make one that moves fast enough to catch up with a ship that has a Mass Effect Core? Any tech we can make right now would take time to lock on and time to move. I highly doubt the ship would just sit still and wait for a nuke probe to hit it. Besides the fact the Collectors have FTL drives. I'm also pretty sure they know where they are headed before they cross the Relay. So they would use the Relay and jump to FTL before any probe we could make would know what was going on.

[wulf3n]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...
Actually those were recon probes. They were designed to explode in the event they were captured. They do not magically seek out and track a ship that can move faster than the probe. Unless you are suggesting a probe can catch up with a star ship. 

Again, please don't make up tech. Nowhere in the game is there any starship seeking nuclear probe.

A link to your source would be appreciated, all that i could find was that during the First Contact War, humans attached nuclear explosives, to probes. I never confirmed they're mines.

[Sparda Stonerule]

An old Alliance espionage probe has turned up in the Voyager Cluster. These probes carried nuclear payloads, and if the Citadel discovers these nuclear booby-traps, it would greatly embarrass the Alliance. Your mission is to find, disable, and recover the probe.



That is from the journal about the Espionage Probe mission in Mass Effect 1. Admiral Hackett informs you they were set to explode if they were captured.



Now to clarify I was saying that in the Universe there are no know space mines, nor any probes that can track a vessel.

[wulf3n]

Il Divo wrote...
However regardless of this, we knew they had some sort of location out of which they were operating beyond Omega 4, whether a base or a planet, etc. This doesn't change the general plan that we need to find some way through if we are going to find out what they/the Reapers are using these human colonies for. Hence why destruction of the Collector Ship (even assuming it could be done) seems like such a small victory.

My problem with this is:
1) how do we know the IFF we obtained from a 37 million dead reaper is valid. for all we know the reapers change the IFF codes every extinction cycle, hurtling through an unknown relay with untested tech, is pretty stupid.
2)We know nothing about the Collectors, yet when they lay themselves out on a silver platter for us, we walk right into their obvious trap, instead of actually disabling them, and then studying their ship. If TIM knew it was a trap why didn't he just say
"Hey shepard, we have a collector ship playing possum. What i wan't you to do, is go there, blow up its engines, then go to town on its weapons, before it has a chance to power up its shields. When you have it sufficiently disabled, we'll send in a few squads of cerberus soldiers to help you finish off the rest of the collectors"

[wulf3n]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

An old Alliance espionage probe has turned up in the Voyager Cluster. These probes carried nuclear payloads, and if the Citadel discovers these nuclear booby-traps, it would greatly embarrass the Alliance. Your mission is to find, disable, and recover the probe.

That is from the journal about the Espionage Probe mission in Mass Effect 1. Admiral Hackett informs you they were set to explode if they were captured.

Now to clarify I was saying that in the Universe there are no know space mines, nor any probes that can track a vessel.

Fair enough

[Sparda Stonerule]

Yeah I'm just here to argue false tech and people making things up. I won't argue that there could be much MUCH better ways to handle the whole Collector situation. Because I'm sure there would be, but as with most fictional stories the easiest way to handle things is usually never done.

[Il Divo]

wulf3n wrote...

My problem with this is:
1) how do we know the IFF we obtained from a 37 million dead reaper is valid. for all we know the reapers change the IFF codes every extinction cycle, hurtling through an unknown relay with untested tech, is pretty stupid.

Well, in short we didn't know if it was going to work. But then I would say more than 50% of all ideas we try in RPG's have a good chance of not working, but magically do. However, I would say the Collectors tracking the IFF to the Normandy was a major hint. This aside, what reason did the Reapers even have to periodically change their IFF's? And how would they invalidate the derelict Reaper's IFF? This was EDI's info that she obtained from the Collector Ship, if I recall.

2)We know nothing about the Collectors, yet when they lay themselves out on a silver platter for us, we walk right into their obvious trap, instead of actually disabling them, and then studying their ship. If TIM knew it was a trap why didn't he just say

I'll have to replay the mission as I don't remember specifics, but the general idea was that this was a good opportunity to enter the heart of their ship and find out what we can. As you're aware of, we're given a grand total of 3 opportunities to engage the Collectors, 1 of which was on Horizon. This was an opportunity which could not be ignored.

Had we been aware of the trap, we could've given ourselves away. And although it may have been a great opportunity to disable the Collector Ship, had we alerted it to our intentions, we would've lost the entire opportunity or perhaps destroyed it out-right. I'm not certain how easy/difficult it is to purposely disable an opposing enemy ship in the Mass Effect universe.  

Modifié par Il Divo, 26 juillet 2010 - 12:58 .

[Kroesis-]

I'm guessing that although TIM knew it was a trap, he also knew that we needed the info from their systems about the Omega 4 relay and anything else they could. There was probably a higher probability of getting that information and getting out than trying to disable the ship.

Modifié par Kroesis-, 26 juillet 2010 - 08:14 .

[Merchant2006]

BlackyBlack wrote...

One idiot to rule them all

*Grabs exam paper*

YOUUUUUUU. SHALL NOT. PAAAAASS!