581 réponses à ce sujet

[RiouHotaru]

Hahaha, Smudboy forgot one very important thing, which was brought up, but he considers a "plothole": the fact TIM never considers mining the Relay.



...Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe TIM actually DID think of that option and IGNORED it? I mean c'mon, just as we're about to nuke the Collector Base he rings us up with the surpremely stupid idea to KEEP IT. Convienent that he calls you at just that moment, huh? Obviously, TIM wants the Collector's stuff. Mining a relay to keep them out doesn't help stop the Reapers, it only delays the Collectors.



So maybe it's not a plothole, so much as we're not giving TIM enough credit. Remember, he's been aware of this for a LONG time. What makes you think he didn't consider the possible options?

[Whatever42]

This is not a plot hole, unless you're one of those who redefine plot hole to fit anything. Oh look, its raining and TIM didn't pack an umbrella with your grenade launcher. Plot hole!

Hundreds of thousands of colonists are missing. The Reapers are coming and we need to go on the offensive to discover and disrupt their plans. Camping the relay is not the best option here.

Not to mention, Cerberus is not a military powerhouse. If the council is sticking their heads in the sand to avoid war with the Terminus Systems, I doubt Cerberus is going to be able permanently occupy a patch smack in the middle of it.

You know, this is a video game. Its not a 2000 page novel where every possible alternative needs to be explored in depth. That they didn't do that is not remotely a plot hole, despite what the plot hole groupies say.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 27 juillet 2010 - 05:52 .

[jackkel dragon]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

This is not a plot hole, unless you're one of those who redefine plot hole to fit anything. Oh look, its raining and TIM didn't pack an umbrella with your grenade launcher. Plot hole!

Hundreds of thousands of colonists are missing. The Reapers are coming and we need to go on the offensive to discover and disrupt their plans. Camping the relay is not the best option here.

Not to mention, Cerberus is not a military powerhouse. If the council is sticking their heads in the sand to avoid war with the Terminus Systems, I doubt Cerberus is going to be able permanently occupy a patch smack in the middle of it.

You know, this is a video game. Its not a 2000 page novel where every possible alternative needs to be explored in depth. That they didn't do that is not remotely a plot hole, despite what the plot hole groupies say.

Beautiful. 

It's not a plot hole if it just doesn't make sense. There are other, more applicable terms. If you're creative enough, this plot oversight can easily be remedied.

Logic prevails.

[smudboy]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Hahaha, Smudboy forgot one very important thing, which was brought up, but he considers a "plothole": the fact TIM never considers mining the Relay.

...Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe TIM actually DID think of that option and IGNORED it? I mean c'mon, just as we're about to nuke the Collector Base he rings us up with the surpremely stupid idea to KEEP IT. Convienent that he calls you at just that moment, huh? Obviously, TIM wants the Collector's stuff. Mining a relay to keep them out doesn't help stop the Reapers, it only delays the Collectors.

So maybe it's not a plothole, so much as we're not giving TIM enough credit. Remember, he's been aware of this for a LONG time. What makes you think he didn't consider the possible options?

Bwahaha? And now you're just acting stupid.

I don't think I have re-educate you on what you already know what a plot hole is.  Or shall I point to your own copy/pasted definition thread?

This is a plot hole because everyone is avoiding the simple solution to a problem.

1) TIM, including some side characters, are aware that 1) The Collectors have a Cruiser, 2) The Collectors use the Omega-4 relay, 3) The Collectors are taking human colonies.
2) The narrative never tells us that TIM never thought of spying or mining the Omega-4 relay, even though it is our simplest and most obvious means of gaining intel about them.  There's no comment of "we can't get near the relay" or "our long range scans of observing the relay have brought up nothing", or anything related to that.  It doesn't matter what we speculate what TIM was thinking, because the narrative never: a) tells us about TIM's thoughts, shows us what TIM's thinking, c) makes any allusions to this obvious solution.

Your comment about keeping the base...is...completely illogical, since no one knows what's beyond the Omega-4 relay, and we don't even know how to get through the relay without going boom, and we only need the IFF to pass through the relay.  The Cruiser is just a target to destroy.  But instead, several colonies get captured while we just sit and collect soldiers for no good reason.

[smudboy]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

This is not a plot hole, unless you're one of those who redefine plot hole to fit anything. Oh look, its raining and TIM didn't pack an umbrella with your grenade launcher. Plot hole!

Hundreds of thousands of colonists are missing. The Reapers are coming and we need to go on the offensive to discover and disrupt their plans. Camping the relay is not the best option here.

Not to mention, Cerberus is not a military powerhouse. If the council is sticking their heads in the sand to avoid war with the Terminus Systems, I doubt Cerberus is going to be able permanently occupy a patch smack in the middle of it.

You know, this is a video game. Its not a 2000 page novel where every possible alternative needs to be explored in depth. That they didn't do that is not remotely a plot hole, despite what the plot hole groupies say.

I'm not saying camping/mining the relay is the best option, but it's the simplest and most obvious one.

Plot holes can come in many forms:

* Characters suddenly having knowledge that was never passed to them.
* Characters acting completely out of character.
* An event does not logically follow from what has gone before.
* Characters ignoring or avoiding obvious solutions to their problems, provided those solutions are obvious to the characters, and not just the viewers

"Writers can deal with plot holes in different ways, from completely rewriting the story, to having characters acknowledge illogical or unintelligent actions, to having characters make vague statements that could be used to deflect accusations of plot holes (e.g. "I've tried everything I can think of..." to keep critics from asking why a particular action was not taken)."

Modifié par smudboy, 27 juillet 2010 - 07:07 .

[RiouHotaru]

smudboy wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

This is not a plot hole, unless you're one of those who redefine plot hole to fit anything. Oh look, its raining and TIM didn't pack an umbrella with your grenade launcher. Plot hole!

Hundreds of thousands of colonists are missing. The Reapers are coming and we need to go on the offensive to discover and disrupt their plans. Camping the relay is not the best option here.

Not to mention, Cerberus is not a military powerhouse. If the council is sticking their heads in the sand to avoid war with the Terminus Systems, I doubt Cerberus is going to be able permanently occupy a patch smack in the middle of it.

You know, this is a video game. Its not a 2000 page novel where every possible alternative needs to be explored in depth. That they didn't do that is not remotely a plot hole, despite what the plot hole groupies say.

I'm not saying camping/mining the relay is the best option, but it's the simplest and most obvious one.

Plot holes can come in many forms:

* Characters suddenly having knowledge that was never passed to them.
* Characters acting completely out of character.
* An event does not logically follow from what has gone before.
* Characters ignoring or avoiding obvious solutions to their problems, provided those solutions are obvious to the characters, and not just the viewers

"Writers can deal with plot holes in different ways, from completely rewriting the story, to having characters acknowledge illogical or unintelligent actions, to having characters make vague statements that could be used to deflect accusations of plot holes (e.g. "I've tried everything I can think of..." to keep critics from asking why a particular action was not taken)."

It's not simple and obvious.  TIM explicitly states that he takes a more proactive stance on dealing with the Reapers.  Mining and camping out the Relay doesn't in any way advance TIM's overall goal.  In fact it goes AGAINST his stated stance.  "I won't sit idly by while the Reapers gather strength!"  Not to mention if the Collectors got wind of it, they'd likely just hire mercs to bomb on the mines and/or ships.  And this even assumes Cerberus has the military might necessary to create such a minefield in the first place.

Therefore, TIM either ignoring this option or "forgetting" about it isn't a plothole.  Were it to come up and he were to seriously consider it, I'd call that more of a plothole because it suddenly goes against his character as it has been portrayed.

[Spornicus]

The relays have withstood the ravages of time and numerous alien species for an unfathomable amount of time. You're all acting like one can just dismantle a mass relay with no trouble. If you guys don't think there's tech in 2183-85 to resurrect Shepard, then there is no way there is tech for mining a seemingly invulnerable and ancient piece of technology.

[Nerevar-as]

As far as we know, it´s not the only relay the Collectors used to get home, but the only one we know about. Destroying it could mean having the Collectors still around and no way to know from what system. Being Reapers slaves means they must know all the routes.

[smudboy]

RiouHotaru wrote...
It's not simple and obvious.  TIM explicitly states that he takes a more proactive stance on dealing with the Reapers.  Mining and camping out the Relay doesn't in any way advance TIM's overall goal.  In fact it goes AGAINST his stated stance.  "I won't sit idly by while the Reapers gather strength!"  Not to mention if the Collectors got wind of it, they'd likely just hire mercs to bomb on the mines and/or ships.  And this even assumes Cerberus has the military might necessary to create such a minefield in the first place.

...If everyone knows the Collectors are taking human colonies...
...if everyone knows only they use the Omega-4 relay...
...and we're on a mission to stop the Collectors...

Then it would be a pro-active choice to take the easiest method, to simply observe the relay.  Mining would be a more militaristic maneuver, but the idea is the same.  Go to where your enemy is and stop them.  Any leads?  None.  Well then, let's go to the only possible location they might be.

If they have at least a handful of ships, and enough cash to build the most powerful cruiser in the galaxy, and have a cargo hold of 50 probes, they can afford and constitute a mine field operation.

Therefore, TIM either ignoring this option or "forgetting" about it isn't a plothole.  Were it to come up and he were to seriously consider it, I'd call that more of a plothole because it suddenly goes against his character as it has been portrayed.

It is a plot hole because the simplest means of getting data is made available to the characters.

If the issue were to come up and he'd consider it, then that wouldn't be a plot hole: he'd either take the opportunity, or dismiss it for whatever reason.

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

smudboy wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
It's not simple and obvious.  TIM explicitly states that he takes a more proactive stance on dealing with the Reapers.  Mining and camping out the Relay doesn't in any way advance TIM's overall goal.  In fact it goes AGAINST his stated stance.  "I won't sit idly by while the Reapers gather strength!"  Not to mention if the Collectors got wind of it, they'd likely just hire mercs to bomb on the mines and/or ships.  And this even assumes Cerberus has the military might necessary to create such a minefield in the first place.

...If everyone knows the Collectors are taking human colonies...
...if everyone knows only they use the Omega-4 relay...
...and we're on a mission to stop the Collectors...

Then it would be a pro-active choice to take the easiest method, to simply observe the relay.  Mining would be a more militaristic maneuver, but the idea is the same.  Go to where your enemy is and stop them.  Any leads?  None.  Well then, let's go to the only possible location they might be.

If they have at least a handful of ships, and enough cash to build the most powerful cruiser in the galaxy, and have a cargo hold of 50 probes, they can afford and constitute a mine field operation.

Therefore, TIM either ignoring this option or "forgetting" about it isn't a plothole.  Were it to come up and he were to seriously consider it, I'd call that more of a plothole because it suddenly goes against his character as it has been portrayed.

It is a plot hole because the simplest means of getting data is made available to the characters.

If the issue were to come up and he'd consider it, then that wouldn't be a plot hole: he'd either take the opportunity, or dismiss it for whatever reason.

Not everyone knows this information. 

These statements obviously don't add up.

How do you know that they can? 


 

[smudboy]

MTN Dew Fanatic wrote...

smudboy wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...
It's not simple and obvious.  TIM explicitly states that he takes a more proactive stance on dealing with the Reapers.  Mining and camping out the Relay doesn't in any way advance TIM's overall goal.  In fact it goes AGAINST his stated stance.  "I won't sit idly by while the Reapers gather strength!"  Not to mention if the Collectors got wind of it, they'd likely just hire mercs to bomb on the mines and/or ships.  And this even assumes Cerberus has the military might necessary to create such a minefield in the first place.

...If everyone knows the Collectors are taking human colonies...
...if everyone knows only they use the Omega-4 relay...
...and we're on a mission to stop the Collectors...

Then it would be a pro-active choice to take the easiest method, to simply observe the relay.  Mining would be a more militaristic maneuver, but the idea is the same.  Go to where your enemy is and stop them.  Any leads?  None.  Well then, let's go to the only possible location they might be.

If they have at least a handful of ships, and enough cash to build the most powerful cruiser in the galaxy, and have a cargo hold of 50 probes, they can afford and constitute a mine field operation.

Therefore, TIM either ignoring this option or "forgetting" about it isn't a plothole.  Were it to come up and he were to seriously consider it, I'd call that more of a plothole because it suddenly goes against his character as it has been portrayed.

It is a plot hole because the simplest means of getting data is made available to the characters.

If the issue were to come up and he'd consider it, then that wouldn't be a plot hole: he'd either take the opportunity, or dismiss it for whatever reason.

Not everyone knows this information. 

These statements obviously don't add up.

How do you know that they can? 
 

Well maybe not the entire cast, but quite a few do.  Namely Shepard and TIM.  Which is about all we need.

[RiouHotaru]

It's not even a simple means of gathering data. There's no indication of how long the Collectors go out swiping up humans before returning to the relay. No information AT ALL. So what, Cerberus is just supposed to observe the relay for however long it takes until the Collectors eventually decide to make a return trip? And what if the time between trips isn't even consistent? The problem with this passive stance of observation is that there's no guarantee of any substantial return on your investment. Therefore it's obviously in TIM's best interest to send Shepard on his recruitment drive and what not.

[smudboy]

RiouHotaru wrote...

It's not even a simple means of gathering data. There's no indication of how long the Collectors go out swiping up humans before returning to the relay. No information AT ALL. So what, Cerberus is just supposed to observe the relay for however long it takes until the Collectors eventually decide to make a return trip? And what if the time between trips isn't even consistent? The problem with this passive stance of observation is that there's no guarantee of any substantial return on your investment. Therefore it's obviously in TIM's best interest to send Shepard on his recruitment drive and what not.

It is that simple.  Sit and wait.  Or mine the thing.  Or put up a spy satellite and then go on your stupid, meaningless recruitment drive.  Or get another ship and have them scout it out.

It's simply a lead, and an obvious one, that the boss man didn't think of.  Which makes it a plot hole.

[Whatever42]

smudboy wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

It's not even a simple means of gathering data. There's no indication of how long the Collectors go out swiping up humans before returning to the relay. No information AT ALL. So what, Cerberus is just supposed to observe the relay for however long it takes until the Collectors eventually decide to make a return trip? And what if the time between trips isn't even consistent? The problem with this passive stance of observation is that there's no guarantee of any substantial return on your investment. Therefore it's obviously in TIM's best interest to send Shepard on his recruitment drive and what not.

It is that simple.  Sit and wait.  Or mine the thing.  Or put up a spy satellite and then go on your stupid, meaningless recruitment drive.  Or get another ship and have them scout it out.

It's simply a lead, and an obvious one, that the boss man didn't think of.  Which makes it a plot hole.

A spy ship would be detected and destroyed. The Normandy stealth systems were useless against the collectors. And I doubt they could track the Collectors through FTL anyway. 

Again, mining the relay would be nothing but a short term solution that would tip their hand. Mining the system would certainly get a reaction from the Terminus Systems. Even if they did successfully mine the relay and destroy a ship, remember that they didn't know how many Collector ships there were. 

When the Collectors lured in Shepard, they learn its the same ship that was on Freedom's Progress and the same ship that attacked the Normandy. That strongly suggests that they thought there could be numerous Collector vessels.

Mining the relay might cause the Collectors to secure it themselves with additional ships, cutting off an attack. 

But just because not every course of action in the game is not explored in depth does not mean its a plot hole.

[smudboy]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
A spy ship would be detected and destroyed. The Normandy stealth systems were useless against the collectors. And I doubt they could track the Collectors through FTL anyway. 

Who would detect them?  Collectors?  Good, we want to find them.

Again, mining the relay would be nothing but a short term solution that would tip their hand. Mining the system would certainly get a reaction from the Terminus Systems. Even if they did successfully mine the relay and destroy a ship, remember that they didn't know how many Collector ships there were. 

No it wouldn't.  No one in the Terminus Systems goes near the Omega-4 relay.

How many?  One less.

When the Collectors lured in Shepard, they learn its the same ship that was on Freedom's Progress and the same ship that attacked the Normandy. That strongly suggests that they thought there could be numerous Collector vessels.

Nope.  That strongly suggests there's only one, actually.

Mining the relay might cause the Collectors to secure it themselves with additional ships, cutting off an attack. 

But just because not every course of action in the game is not explored in depth does not mean its a plot hole.

Excellent.  Let's see their numbers and forces.  My kind of recon.

1) It wasn't explored in depth.  It wasn't even explored at all.
2) It is clearly a plot hole.

[wulf3n]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
A spy ship would be detected and destroyed. The Normandy stealth systems were useless against the collectors. And I doubt they could track the Collectors through FTL anyway. 

Again, mining the relay would be nothing but a short term solution that would tip their hand. Mining the system would certainly get a reaction from the Terminus Systems. Even if they did successfully mine the relay and destroy a ship, remember that they didn't know how many Collector ships there were. 

When the Collectors lured in Shepard, they learn its the same ship that was on Freedom's Progress and the same ship that attacked the Normandy. That strongly suggests that they thought there could be numerous Collector vessels.

Mining the relay might cause the Collectors to secure it themselves with additional ships, cutting off an attack. 

But just because not every course of action in the game is not explored in depth does not mean its a plot hole.

It is when the action you actually take is completely stupid given the information you have.

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

smudboy wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

It's not even a simple means of gathering data. There's no indication of how long the Collectors go out swiping up humans before returning to the relay. No information AT ALL. So what, Cerberus is just supposed to observe the relay for however long it takes until the Collectors eventually decide to make a return trip? And what if the time between trips isn't even consistent? The problem with this passive stance of observation is that there's no guarantee of any substantial return on your investment. Therefore it's obviously in TIM's best interest to send Shepard on his recruitment drive and what not.

It is that simple.  Sit and wait.  Or mine the thing.  Or put up a spy satellite and then go on your stupid, meaningless recruitment drive.  Or get another ship and have them scout it out.

It's simply a lead, and an obvious one, that the boss man didn't think of.  Which makes it a plot hole.

You can't call it a plothole when the character didn't think about it. I wouln't have thought to mine the relay. to say it's obvious is obviously an opinion; which would make your statements about it being a plothole your opinion and not a fact, as you seem to claim.

[theelementslayer]

smudboy wrote...

It is that simple.  Sit and wait.  Or mine the thing.  Or put up a spy satellite and then go on your stupid, meaningless recruitment drive.  Or get another ship and have them scout it out.

It's simply a lead, and an obvious one, that the boss man didn't think of.  Which makes it a plot hole.

I know that I probably wont, or cant convince you, and that we will both not change our opinions but no its not a plothole. Its a option that TIM didnt take for a number of reasons.

Sit and wait? On TIMs scenes he repeatedly states that he wont sit and wait and watch the collectors/reapers take them over. They dont have much time to do that, the Reapers are coming and they have to act quickly. They dont know when the reapers are coming but they dont want to be caught with their pants down. Sitting and doing nothing is really not on their agenda.

Even if they do sit there they know the collectors will come out of it. Even if they destory the ship, what good does that do? it destroys the ship, as far as they know the collectors have a thousand of them. If they dont destroy the ship, their ship is destroyed. Senseless waste of life. TIM is ruthless but not an idiot.

Mine the thing. Again, mining the relay, can thier mines destory the ship, maybe maybe not. If it does again they dont know how many ships they have so really doesnt do anyhting. TIM wants the base, he wants to know what they are up to. At their home.

Spy sattilte? really? They need the IFF to navigate it. They dont know where it leads to, send a probe and guess what will happen, probably the same thing that happened to the rest of the ships. Waste of money with no chance of gain. Again TIM is ruthless but not dumb. No reason to waste money. Or time for that matter.

And by your definition of plothole anything could be a plothole. Its something he didnt think of PLOTHOLE. By that token The Departed is full of plotholes. Why didnt dicaprio ask the leader if he had anyone in the police...PLOTHOLE. No its because he didnt want to die, he never says it but its implied.

[Whatever42]

Who would detect them?  Collectors?  Good, we want to find them. 

After they destroyed your spy ship, you would simply lose them again. And then they might take measures to prevent further spying, such as hiring the Blue Suns.

No it wouldn't.  No one in the Terminus Systems goes near the Omega-4 relay.

Its in the same system as omega. Someone would eventually notice.

Nope.  That strongly suggests there's only one, actually.

Yes, but they didn't realize that until you were well into your recruitment mission. They already blew most of their resources on the new Normandy. Procuring mines and securing the relay would take a lot more resources and that would take time. And that still doesn't guarantee there is not more ships. Why tip your hand since you want to go through the relay anyway?

Excellent.  Let's see their numbers and forces.  My kind of recon.

Except Cerberus doesn't have the military forces to engage the Collectors. And they want to launch an offensive, not fight a holding action in the middle of hostile territory.

1) It wasn't explored in depth.  It wasn't even explored at all.
2) It is clearly a plot hole.

1) Irrelevant. Again, not every possible option can be explored in the narrative, especially in a video game.
2) Nope.

[smudboy]

theelementslayer wrote...

I know that I probably wont, or cant convince you, and that we will both not change our opinions but no its not a plothole. Its a option that TIM didnt take

Full stop.  You just described a plot hole.  Thank you for agreeing with me.

[smudboy]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
After they destroyed your spy ship, you would simply lose them again. And then they might take measures to prevent further spying, such as hiring the Blue Suns.

The scene could be written any number of ways.

Its in the same system as omega. Someone would eventually notice.

Point?

Yes, but they didn't realize that until you were well into your recruitment mission. They already blew most of their resources on the new Normandy. Procuring mines and securing the relay would take a lot more resources and that would take time. And that still doesn't guarantee there is not more ships. Why tip your hand since you want to go through the relay anyway?

Mines and laying them would take less time then playing mineral planeteer.

Except Cerberus doesn't have the military forces to engage the Collectors. And they want to launch an offensive, not fight a holding action in the middle of hostile territory.

The SR2 has no problem engaging the Collectors.

If they can get others in the Terminus to take notice, I'm not seeing a problem here.

1) Irrelevant. Again, not every possible option can be explored in the narrative, especially in a video game.

The major characters were aware of the Collectors and their link to the Omega-4 relay.  It is a clear link that guarantees meeting them.

2) Nope.

Wrong again chief:

-(e.g. "I've tried everything I can think of..." to keep critics from asking why a particular action was not taken).
-Characters ignoring or avoiding obvious solutions to their problems, provided those solutions are obvious to the characters, and not just the viewers.

[theelementslayer]

A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot.

Thats a plothole.

The collector base is not an inconsitancy, or ommision of relevant information, TIM wants the base

Modifié par theelementslayer, 29 juillet 2010 - 03:37 .

[Whatever42]

wulf3n wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
A spy ship would be detected and destroyed. The Normandy stealth systems were useless against the collectors. And I doubt they could track the Collectors through FTL anyway. 

Again, mining the relay would be nothing but a short term solution that would tip their hand. Mining the system would certainly get a reaction from the Terminus Systems. Even if they did successfully mine the relay and destroy a ship, remember that they didn't know how many Collector ships there were. 

When the Collectors lured in Shepard, they learn its the same ship that was on Freedom's Progress and the same ship that attacked the Normandy. That strongly suggests that they thought there could be numerous Collector vessels.

Mining the relay might cause the Collectors to secure it themselves with additional ships, cutting off an attack. 

But just because not every course of action in the game is not explored in depth does not mean its a plot hole.

It is when the action you actually take is completely stupid given the information you have.

I completely agree, when its out of character anyway. If the character is an idiot, taking action that is not completely stupid is the plot hole.

However, when the lack of an action is simply not explained, that doesn't make it a plot hole unless its a perfectly obvious course of action. If our hero is attacked and defends himself with a banana instead of his gun, thats a plot hole. But if he defends himself with his gun instead of his nunchucks, we really don't need an explanation and its not a plot hole if its not provided.

[smudboy]

theelementslayer wrote...

A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot.

Thats a plothole.

The collector base is not an inconsitancy, or ommision of relevant information, TIM wants the base

Keep reading the definition.

This is also a plot hole:
-(e.g. "I've tried everything I can think of..." to keep critics from asking why a particular action was not taken).
-Characters
ignoring or avoiding obvious solutions to their problems, provided
those solutions are obvious to the characters, and not just the
viewers.

[theelementslayer]

smudboy wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot.

Thats a plothole.

The collector base is not an inconsitancy, or ommision of relevant information, TIM wants the base

Keep reading the definition.

This is also a plot hole:
-(e.g. "I've tried everything I can think of..." to keep critics from asking why a particular action was not taken).
-Characters
ignoring or avoiding obvious solutions to their problems, provided
those solutions are obvious to the characters, and not just the
viewers.

Well maybe TIM is dumb, didnt think of those options, because he is just such a HUGE idiot, and instaed actually made us do stuff so we could have an extremely fun game to play. I could just see how you game wuold play out.

They are taking our colonies.
alright lets mine the relay
relay is mined lets wait
"cue intermission music"
oh look they blew up
the end