186 réponses à ce sujet

[sonlockdon]

i think i spotted some developer trash talk in here somewhere, "respect"

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Have people who are compaining that hawke 'runs away' paid ANY attention to the recent screenshots?



Seriously, He is fighting darkspawn



Sigh.

[Hawksblud]

Erebusd13 wrote...

I don't think there would be anything wrong with him being a straight coward in his flight...would certainly make him unique among most protagonists and somewhat interesting as well.

This. I think the transformation from coward to hero could be an interesting way to play. Alternatively, you could keep that stubborn, putting himself first streak to good use, rising to power through self-reliance and a cutthroat necessity to come out on top. It could be a fascinating, gritty character to play, someone unabashedly concerned with their own well-being, letting the rest of the world around them get sucked into it, uncaring for the consequences. It would be pretty frickin' awesome.

edit: damn, pixie said it first and better.

Modifié par Hawksblud, 25 juillet 2010 - 05:43 .

[phaonica]

pixieface wrote...

Dude, I LOVE cowardly protagonists. I have a bunch of short stories with them. They are incredibly fascinating to write. You know why?
They have the biggest potential to grow.
I'm not saying Hawke will always and forever be a coward because I want him/her to be... But mine might be. There is something satisfying in seeing a character going from having panic attacks to finding inner confidence and strength. I'd rather write or roleplay someone like that than a pure, noble fighter whose heroic resolve never, ever falters. Where's the conflict and fun in that?
But I think Hawke went north because of Beth. If he left to join the army, where would that leave her? A lone apostate, wandering Ferelden during a Blight? Yeah sure. That's some sibling love right there. Those two are the only family each has left (I am assuming), so it's pretty reasonable to assume they will want to be together. It's safest and logical to go north to escape the monsters that destroyed their home (and possibly to escape the Circle as well).
To what end? No one knows. We haven't, ya'know, played the game or anything like that.

I agree. I have absolutely zero problem with Hawke potentially being a coward. Maybe he did leave because of Beth, though some would even argue that harboring an apostate isn't any nobler (depending on your point of view, just playing devil's advocate here). Maybe someone in Kirkwall will ask "Why did you leave Ferelden" and you'll get a whole list of choices to choose the reason. Our characters in Origins didn't get to abandon Ferelden and we had to come up with a reason why some of our characters wouldn't do that. Potentially, it could be the same with Hawke, only the opposite.

Honestly, the only reason that this particular theory gets so much attention is because it is commonly assumed that if you think Hawke has the potential to be a coward, then you must be a hater. I think that this may widely be true, but I don't think that the theory is completely baseless.

Modifié par phaonica, 25 juillet 2010 - 05:47 .

[MerinTB]

joriandrake wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Kordaris wrote...

David Gaider wrote...
People simply don't know the circumstances yet, and conjuring worst case scenarios is more fun to do on forums.

Yeah I even heard some silly guys claiming players won't have choice of creating their own characters with unique backstories like they had in DAO with dwarfs and elves. Such silliness:wizard:

Oooh, ouch.

yeah, that was a nice riposte

Ippon!

[Odin2040]

pixieface wrote...

But I think Hawke went north because of Beth. If he left to join the army, where would that leave her? A lone apostate, wandering Ferelden during a Blight? Yeah sure. That's some sibling love right there. Those two are the only family each has left (I am assuming), so it's pretty reasonable to assume they will want to be together. It's safest and logical to go north to escape the monsters that destroyed their home (and possibly to escape the Circle as well).
To what end? No one knows. We haven't, ya'know, played the game or anything like that.

I also believe this to be the case. Besides, even the Warden and Alistair, two Grey Wardens, wouldn't have had any chance of defeating the Horde passing through Lothering at the time. Who's to say Hawke didn't try and fight but eventually had to make the choice to flee with his/her sibling in order for them to survive?

[Saibh]

Odin2040 wrote...

pixieface wrote...

But I think Hawke went north because of Beth. If he left to join the army, where would that leave her? A lone apostate, wandering Ferelden during a Blight? Yeah sure. That's some sibling love right there. Those two are the only family each has left (I am assuming), so it's pretty reasonable to assume they will want to be together. It's safest and logical to go north to escape the monsters that destroyed their home (and possibly to escape the Circle as well).
To what end? No one knows. We haven't, ya'know, played the game or anything like that.

I also believe this to be the case. Besides, even the Warden and Alistair, two Grey Wardens, wouldn't have had any chance of defeating the Horde passing through Lothering at the time. Who's to say Hawke didn't try and fight but eventually had to make the choice to flee with his/her sibling in order for them to survive?

You know, I don't think s/he leaves because of Bethany, just because that would assume you love your sister. I doubt the game will assume that much about you. I could very well be wrong, but, even though I have nothing against Bethany, I want to play at least one completely misanthropic character.

[TheBearMage]

Seriously, how much weapons training do people expect a "penniless refugee" to have?

[Arttis]

TheBearMage wrote...

Seriously, how much weapons training do people expect a "penniless refugee" to have?

As much as the greatest heroes it seems.

[Riona45]

Kordaris wrote...


Those are real life names not fantasy heroes.

As I mentioned before, DA:O actually had a lot of characters with real life names.

[Dave of Canada]

TheBearMage wrote...

Seriously, how much weapons training do people expect a "penniless refugee" to have?

You have to kill thousands of Darkspawn and the Archdemon without knowing how to properly grasp a sword or else you're a weakling, if you run away like everybody else did (including the Warden in a sense) then you're a coward.

Shame on you, Hawke!

Shame on you!

[BallaZs]

Haters gonna hate, no matter what.

Just ignore them

[Inquisitor Recon]

Hawke simply advanced in the direction away from the darkspawn. But seriously, he was smart in knowing there was no chance in hell that Lothering could be held. Better to move to an easily defendable position.

[Dave of Canada]

ReconTeam wrote...

Hawke simply advanced in the direction away from the darkspawn. But seriously, he was smart in knowing there was no chance in hell that Lothering could be held. Better to move to an easily defendable position.

We're not retreating, we're advancing in a different direction!

[Akizora]

Maybe you get to choose how you flee from Lothering?

1# I'm saving my own skin, screw you guys.
2# We have to help these people escape!
3# I'm not letting you die Bethany
4# What do we do?! I'm scared! We have to get out of here!
5# I'm staying to fight...(Bethany protests and says you need to leave)

That way you could pretty much choose how your character escapes, that you escape is already decided (just like becoming a Warden was already decided in Origins) but how you do it, might be up to you.

[Dave of Canada]

Akizora wrote...
5# I'm staying to fight...(Bethany protests and says you need to leave)

But thou must.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 25 juillet 2010 - 09:08 .

[Gaddmeister]

Ragabul the Ontarah wrote...

Gaddmeister wrote...

I'd actually like it if Hawke cowardly ran from the battlefield. It would be an interesting start to the story and the character would surely be fun to play.

I don't think it makes a difference.  Think how you start Oblivion off in jail...it's never explained.  Yet you can still become a Knight and severe do-gooder.

Actually, I never played Oblivion. But I was thinking more of the character's mentality rather than his/her past actions. I'd like a start to the game in which you can see Hawke fleeing and not trying to stand and fight and act heroicly. I'd like to see the character develop rather than having the courage of a hero right from the start. That was probably what I meant to say. So that's why I hope Hawke flees the blight "like a coward".

[taine]

Er, a coward?

Option A: Stay and be slaughtered next to virtually non-existent defenses by a horde of tens of thousands of darkspawn. Absolutely zero chance of survival.

Option B: Run, and fight another day. 

As Harry Dresden says, if you survive you're brave. Otherwise, you're just crazy or stupid.

Modifié par taine, 25 juillet 2010 - 10:31 .

[Lord Gremlin]

Shinian2 wrote...

Have people who are compaining that hawke 'runs away' paid ANY attention to the recent screenshots?

Seriously, He is fighting darkspawn

Sigh.

I think he's teaching them sword-dancing. And ogre just pissed him off, because he's too dumb to learn.

[Chuvvy]

I would have run. I would have tripped my sister if the darkspawn were to close, let them have her. Give me a few more moments of sweet sweet life.

[Lintanis]

If Hawke managed to convince some of  the people of Lothering to leave with the Templars, doesnt that make him more of a hero then a coward 

[J-Reyno]

I would have got my ass out of there too. I say Hawke is a damn good survivor, it makes me feel even closer to him/her as a human being.  I don't think there's a single person in this forum who wouldn't run at the sight of monstrous man-eating creatures with access to more armor and weaponry than even us commonfolk have. 

So if he did run out of fear (and honestly,  I really hope he did) then I say great.  It's realistic. I'd rather play a more down-to-earth protagonist with recognizable faults that he strives (or is forced) to overcome than some elevated heroic figure that lives on a distant plane of ephemeral virtue that I can't even relate to.  Bring on the coward turned champion - I look forward to seeing how he redeems himself.

[triggerhappy456]

leaving lothering was common sense, staying would have meant hawke died

fleeing ferelden itself sounds cowardly, and there are some people you see during dao who say they have volunteered or will volunteer to fight the darkspawn

but since we dont know anything other than the basic outline, we do not know if it was just simple cowardice, or if another unknown factor influenced his decision

[In Exile]

phaonica wrote...
Well I don't. I'm not going to get into a political argument with you though. The main question was why people think Hawke might be a coward. I do think that for some it's a nationalistic sentiment. I also think that for some its a question of honor--that an able person who stands up for others as well as themselves is brave, and someone who is able but not willing to stand up for others is a coward.

But there is no evidence that Hawke is not willing to stand up for others. Not dying in the nationalistic or culture war is not a sign that you do not care for others, or are not willing to stand up for them. It might simply be that you do not want to die in the nationalistic crusade.

I don't want to have a political debate either, but if we are using a specific political definition for cowardice, it's very important tor recognize the logical limitation of that, which is to say that certain things absolutely do not follow from it, like not being willing to stand up for others.

[aries1001]

There's an actor called Ethan Hawke, http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000160/ , and if you a quick google search, you'll learn that Hawke is fairly common familiar name, also in Australia, it seems.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Hawke (this provided as information only)



So Hawke in DA2 could be named afther her (or his) good eyesigt, or because of his keen mind, he sees right through the problems and solves them as well. And while Hawke migt be described in one way, we don't have to play him the way he's been described here.