452 réponses à ce sujet

[Kroesis-]

Shandepared wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

Your assumption is not fact.

Neither is yours.

Actually, the evidence presented throughout Geth history would tend to side with my perspective on this.

Modifié par Kroesis-, 25 juillet 2010 - 06:50 .

[Kroesis-]

Shandepared wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

Actually, the evidence presented would tend to side with my perspective on this.

What evidence? A.I. doesn't exist.

You are aware that we're talking about the Geth and AI in the Mass Effect Universe, yes? Try researching a little into the Geth and their origins. Also you have neglected to answer my previous question. Can you define conciousness?

Modifié par Kroesis-, 25 juillet 2010 - 06:52 .

[kondel]

Bad_sheep wrote...

Honestly, after reading all these comments I can only come to this conclusion.
My OP can be very rationnal or completely rascist/genocidal depending on whether you consider the geth as live being or as mere robots. Thus, none of the comments on this thread can be proven wrong or right unless you can prove that the geth are the same as us.
Therefore, I propose that the topic be shifted towards the following question:
Are AI's to be considered as sentinent beings?

This has been discussed to death a thousand times over. 

Some saying: how?

Others saying: Why not.

How vs. Why Not

[EliteZev]

While reading in this forum, I got the impression that the majority of commentors approved on the existance of the gorillas and the idea that we should seek coexistance with them.

However, I can't seem to understand why. In my opinion, any primate is a threat to organic life as they can be manipulated into doing awful stuff (see heretics), yet people still tend to refuse the irradication of gorillas under the pretense that they haven't done anything wrong and it is morally wrong to dispose of them.

But why should it be wrong?

The gorrilas are primates and should be treated as such, treating with the same standard as living beings is incorrect, even bobo says it if you chose a renegade dialog during his loyalty mission (don't remember what dialog though). Point being that organics have priority over any created intelligence.

So what should be done? I think ressources should be spent at reeducating the Gorillas so their Herp becomes a Derp and if that doesn't work, then we should outright destroy them before they can cause any harm.

Anyone else share my opinion? Do some people disagree? If so why?

Look forward to reading your posts.

[Kroesis-]

Shandepared wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...


You are aware that we're talking about the Geth and AI in the Mass Effect Universe, yes?

Yes, however I'm applying some real-life approaches to the question of artificial intelligence. I'm taking the same approach as Admiral Xen.

What evidence is there that the geth are anything more than cleverly designed programs?

I suggest you read up on the Chinese Room because it applies quite well to the question of the geth.

I have no direct evidence, pretty much in the same way that I don't know that you, yourself are alive with a concience. In fact no one can accurately define conciousness because there is no way to measure it in person or thing other than by visual observation or communication, and both can be simulated. Same question, what evidence do you have, other then the comparison of the Biological to technological, that they are not concious beings?

[Kroesis-]

Shandepared wrote...

Kroesis- wrote...

I have no direct evidence...

Well then, I guess that settles it.

Are you even going to dignify my whole post with a response?

[kondel]

EliteZev wrote...

While reading in this forum, I got the impression that the majority of commentors approved on the existance of the gorillas and the idea that we should seek coexistance with them.
However, I can't seem to understand why. In my opinion, any primate is a threat to organic life as they can be manipulated into doing awful stuff (see heretics), yet people still tend to refuse the irradication of gorillas under the pretense that they haven't done anything wrong and it is morally wrong to dispose of them.
But why should it be wrong?
The gorrilas are primates and should be treated as such, treating with the same standard as living beings is incorrect, even bobo says it if you chose a renegade dialog during his loyalty mission (don't remember what dialog though). Point being that organics have priority over any created intelligence.
So what should be done? I think ressources should be spent at reeducating the Gorillas so their Herp becomes a Derp and if that doesn't work, then we should outright destroy them before they can cause any harm.
Anyone else share my opinion? Do some people disagree? If so why?
Look forward to reading your posts.

I got the impression from reading your post that you say:
Geth are different, and they are powerful. If they do not become like us, they should be eliminated. Correct me if i am wrong.

If you do believe geth to be sentient and all; I would have to say i believe it is racism to not accept that there is difference between two races, and therefore force your opinion upon them.

I believe we should try to understand each other. And if that's impossible, live with the fact that we are different.
(sorry about the huge bunch of space beneath, I can't seem to remove it)

Modifié par kondel, 25 juillet 2010 - 07:19 .

[Ardonia]

i want to no which members partaking in this debate are fans of star trek?

[Kroesis-]

Real world arguments aside, the argument about the Geth's sentience/conciousness is moot as the game and the universe within that game already acknowledges that they are.

[kondel]

lolwut.

Why should that have an effect.

I have watched the series and liked it. If that equal to fandom, yes.

[Kroesis-]

Ardonia wrote...

i want to no which members partaking in this debate are fans of star trek?

I'm a big fan of Wall-E... does that help?

[Ardonia]

its just those who watch sci fi on a regular basis tend to be more philosophical than the average person.

[Ardonia]

and i wanted to see if those who watch it (like me) prefer coexistence over destroying AI.

[Kroesis-]

I've been into Scf-Fi and Sci-Fa for a long time including Trek and others and the question of AI has occurred in a great many of them. Has that encouraged me to think of AI differently? Probably, but I cannot say that I wouldn't think the same thing if I wasn't into them. Personally I see AI as an inevitable progression of existence.Obviously one would hope that Biological life would be able to coexist with Artificial (or Synthetic) and that AI would be given the same respect as Biological Intelligence and not used as tools. If mankind could create AI then it could create non-evolving VI tools for labour purposes.

[Pacifien]

Ardonia wrote...
i want to no which members partaking in this debate are fans of star trek?

I watched it with increasing bitterness over the years.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Ardonia wrote...
and i wanted to see if those who watch it (like me) prefer coexistence over destroying AI.

I watched alot of the original series and some of the next generation. Yet I still believe that if the geth cannot be brought under control, they must be destroyed.

[NanQuan]

Bad_sheep wrote...

All of your arguments are valid IF the geth are to be considered as life forms. Please bear in mind I'm not one to approve genocides, in fact, I saved the rachni and was against the genophage all along the game. But to me, the geth are as alive as toaster are and therefore shouldn't be considered as lives.

I see your point and it's certainly something to think about. I guess it all boils down to world view for most people. I do consider the geth to be lifeforms, capable of intelligent thought and capable of making a choice. But I do have to agree that I hesitate to put them on the same level as humans or any other of the organic species. For me, most of my decisions concerning the geth are founded on mercy.

An example: When I first encountered the rachni on Noveria I saw them as just bugs that needed to be exterminated. But when I talked to the Rachni Queen I realized that they were intelligent and I had probably misunderstood them. I was moved enough by her story (also I find the song as communication idea cool) that I showed mercy and spared her.

It was more or less the same with the geth. I've killed countless geth and didn't care. But then I met Legion and realized that they were also intelligent and capable of thought. Interaction with Legion also compelled me to show mercy to his people and rewrite them instead of destroy.

As we've seen, it's debatable whether these decisions are good in the long run, but I went with how I felt and I don't worry because of that.  But I would agree with you that if the geth do prove to be dangerous I would feel compelled to side with organics.

[Pacifien]

ReconTeam wrote...
I watched alot of the original series and some of the next generation. Yet I still believe that if the geth cannot be brought under control, they must be destroyed.

I bet everyone feels better if they can easily predict and control their lives, but that's not gonna happen.

[Ardonia]

star trek has drifted to far from gene roddenberry's vision in an attempt to please the average person and star trek 2009 is the lastest example.

[Giggles_Manically]

So is the whole debate running between:

Are the geth actually intelligent or

just a complex program that mimics intelligence (ie passes the turing test).

[kondel]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

So is the whole debate running between:
Are the geth actually intelligent or
just a complex program that mimics intelligence (ie passes the turing test).

Correct, and neither sides can bring proof.